JSI F-14 Tomcat Cons - The Bad about the Tomcat

[gouchy]

Wow

I feel sorry for you guys, the anguish you must feel when an expensive model breaks less then a month on its own

Think some precaution would be wise now for gear-down display, some support blocks under it or something

[Coreyeagle48]

Greetings

I was thinking about this last night and I may be totally off base here with this statement (please say so if I am, this is just a guess), but I am wondering if the people correcting the spots with paint is adding enough weight to topple the beast so to speak.

I know for a fact the painting will add some weight. I know my Thunderbirds F-16 is tail heavy because of the paint and because Pickel's tail in resin is slightly heavier than the plastic one BBI had.

I'm just curious if this could be tipping the weight, I imagine computer engineering was done to draw up this model and I imagine they knew how much the gear could take. I also wonder if putting weight in the battery compartment could take stress off the rear gear.

Corey

[c44588]

"is the paint is adding enough weight to topple the beast..."

Doh...

You gotta be kidding!

Guess you'd better keep it well dusted too. A sow's ear just aint never gonna be a silk purse, $250 or no...what a scam...

[tmanthegreat]

Paint weight is an interesting thought and it is a problem affecting real aircraft. (Paint weight is the reason why US aircraft in WWII started to go unpainted and why some airlines have recently tonned down their flashy schemes). However, I'm not sure paint weight will adversely affect the F-14's ballance unless significant amounts of paint are added. I suppose as well that one could insert weights into the forward section of the plane to counteract any unnecessary tail weight.

[Coreyeagle48]

Greetings:

I guess I just don't understand how people break these things. I have about 20 1/18 scale aircraft and other than a pitot tube or something really small, I have yet to break one. I've also never had a gear break and none of my planes ever have been hung. I even dropped a P-38 off a shelf, it landed on its gear, and still didn't break! Maybe I got lucky.

I just find it odd so many people have landing gear issues with their planes. Either I get good ones or something....

Corey

[gouchy]

I doubt that the added paint weight is the cause

If thats the case, its a really really thin margin of weight tolerance

Would be more informative to see if those that are collapsing are the limited edition ones (added weight from the leds, batt n cables) and/or pilot figs have been put into them (also added weight)

If its random then it should be more of a QC issue

Just in case though, please dust daily and do not sneeze on plane

[pcoughran]

See my other post here:
viewtopic.php?t=17940&start=1020

about gear problems and what I think is the problem.
In a nutshell one of my gear struts did not have a metal rod in it like the other one did. It broke then caused the other to break. JSI's fault, why would they put a metal rod in one gear strut and not the other?

[general hawk59]

I just think its sad that JSI really screwed the pooch on this one.. I also think its messed up that Merit-intl lied to all of us and told us that the herpies spots werent that bad.. Oh well. I guess thats what we get for buying anything from Merit. This isnt the first time that these guys have screwed us. It just sucks im stuck with 13 of these dam planes and i cant sell them for the life of me. I guess no one wants a plane with STDS. lol

[general hawk59]

I just think its sad that JSI really screwed the pooch on this one.. I also think its messed up that Merit-intl lied to all of us and told us that the herpies spots werent that bad.. Oh well. I guess thats what we get for buying anything from Merit. This isnt the first time that these guys have screwed us. It just sucks im stuck with 13 of these dam planes and i cant sell them for the life of me. I guess no one wants a plane with STDS. lol

[general hawk59]

well thats one of the nice things about using a credit card.. If you send your plane back and provide tracking you are protected from both visa and mastercard. All you have to do is call your cc and tell them you are not happy with somthing you ordered online and that the company you purchased from wont let you return it and then your cc company will tell you to return it and provide tracking and they will give you a full refund.

Got mine today and couldn't wait to see the spots!

OMG what a mess!!!! And Badcat is not taking returns??? Some enterprising young lad on the board could make some money painting these over for folks. I don't know how to do custom decals, unless guys are painting around the decals.

Resell value on this is nil. Custom painting ruins the "original / stock MIB" Perhaps JSI doesn't have a QC or any squadron books.

Haven't checked any other part.

DH

[CENT-ONE]

Greetings:

I guess I just don't understand how people break these things. I have about 20 1/18 scale aircraft and other than a pitot tube or something really small, I have yet to break one. I've also never had a gear break and none of my planes ever have been hung. I even dropped a P-38 off a shelf, it landed on its gear, and still didn't break! Maybe I got lucky.

I just find it odd so many people have landing gear issues with their planes. Either I get good ones or something....

Corey

you must have carpet on the ground in your house or something to never get a busted landing gear. I'm stuck with this ole concrete floor here and it just tears hell out of these planes. it's like the designers thought planes could just stay flying forever and never have to land. I've busted every single one of my landing gears clear off. these aren't old worn out planes either. fresh outta the box i'll toss the plane across the room hard as I can so it can simulate gliding to it's new display area (i usually stand on a table to do this so i can get it to fly further).

I swear, every damn time that plane lands on the concrete ground the landing gears just snap like kindling. I'm guessing you've got some real nice thick carpet or you really are just extra lucky.

maybe i should try flying them outside and see if they land any softer.

[Coreyeagle48]

Greetings:

I don't ever play with my stuff which is probably why. Other than to clean them and sometimes switch their positioning in my collection room, I don't tinker around with these planes at all. Most times I break a pitot tube or antenna dusting when a rag gets caught or something like that.

One of mine was broken off the F-14 when it arrived, it was in the box so it was a quick fix. Solved the gear problem on the F-14 by gluing the tabs on the inner top fuse in place. I can just dig through the glue with a knife if needed to free them. This has really helped me gear stay in place.

Corey

[pcoughran]

Greetings:

I guess I just don't understand how people break these things. I have about 20 1/18 scale aircraft and other than a pitot tube or something really small, I have yet to break one. I've also never had a gear break and none of my planes ever have been hung. I even dropped a P-38 off a shelf, it landed on its gear, and still didn't break! Maybe I got lucky.

I just find it odd so many people have landing gear issues with their planes. Either I get good ones or something....

Corey

I posted about the cause of my gear problem. There is suppossed to be a metal rod in the strut. I found out after mine cracked completely in half that there was no metal rod in one of my gear (the one that failed first and started the whole unfortunate mess). The other gear broke from the strain caused when the first gear broke. The other gear had a metal rod in it, but alas it was not enough without the other side being equal.
I'm sure there was suppossed to be a metal rod in both sides it doesn't make sense to put it in one gear and not the other. And, the one without was hollowed out the exact sized of the metal rod in the other gear. I think JSI's quality control guru struck again.
Coreyeagle, maybe you have metal rods in both your gear so no problem.
I again emphasize I did not "play" with my F14 i merely layed it oh so gently on its gear having a second person watch all the connections to make sure the springs compressed evenly on both sides and all connections stayed true. I'm sure I'm not the only one with a rod missing in the gear, others with broken gear probably experience the same thing. Like tko211's missing the NAVY marking on one side - there are some serious QC issues with this bird.

[tko211]

Well I came across my first BAD Tomcat today! Front landing gear is all glued in the retracted position and would not move at all! I mean it was glued at the hinge BIG TIME!
I just snapped it clean off after trying for almost an hour to loose in up and get it to work. I even tried to the point of totally taking apart the cockpit section to work on the gear. Scratch one Tomcat!

Luckily this one is an extra one of mine and not a members for repaint! Now I get to see how well Bad Cat Rob will take care of me.

[CW4USARMY]

Well I came across my first BAD Tomcat today! Front landing gear is all glued in the retracted position and would not move at all! I mean it was glued at the hinge BIG TIME!
I just snapped it clean off after trying for almost an hour to loose in up and get it to work. I even tried to the point of totally taking apart the cockpit section to work on the gear. Scratch one Tomcat!

Luckily this one is an extra one of mine and not a members for repaint! Now I get to see how well Bad Cat Rob will take care of me.

Whew! thought it might have been mine there for a minute, not that it is OK that it is yours

[B-29]

Well I came across my first BAD Tomcat today! Front landing gear is all glued in the retracted position and would not move at all! I mean it was glued at the hinge BIG TIME!
I just snapped it clean off after trying for almost an hour to loose in up and get it to work. I even tried to the point of totally taking apart the cockpit section to work on the gear. Scratch one Tomcat!

Luckily this one is an extra one of mine and not a members for repaint! Now I get to see how well Bad Cat Rob will take care of me.

Mine came the same way. I just used some un-cure (nail polish remover works too) and the hinge was freed fairly easily. Then, I just inserted a brass rod into the holes and glued the gear back together.

[tko211]

Looks like I will be taking my issue directly to merit. Bad cat indicated that merit is not not easy to work with in resolving matters like this and it appears that the ball is my court. One of the dangers I guess with purchasing such an expensive product produced, managed, and run exclusively overseas. Bad cat also agrees saying returns are not as simple as the 21c days. I will be less likely to purchase multiple large planes in the future if quality and return policys remain as they are today.

[toyktdlgh]

So the gear was busted and BAD CAT TOYS refuses to take it back? That wasn’t covered by their disclaimer if I recall correctly. Broken landing gear is not a minor fit and finish issue. What a crock of Bad Cat Crap.

[tkjaer21]

Well I came across my first BAD Tomcat today! Front landing gear is all glued in the retracted position and would not move at all! I mean it was glued at the hinge BIG TIME!
I just snapped it clean off after trying for almost an hour to loose in up and get it to work. I even tried to the point of totally taking apart the cockpit section to work on the gear. Scratch one Tomcat!

Luckily this one is an extra one of mine and not a members for repaint! Now I get to see how well Bad Cat Rob will take care of me.

Mine came the same way. I just used some un-cure (nail polish remover works too) and the hinge was freed fairly easily. Then, I just inserted a brass rod into the holes and glued the gear back together.

One of mine was the same way. I wish that there was something that we could do with this.

[Sabrefan]

Sad to hear about the stuck nose gear problem. I guess expensive does not mean quality control in this hobby.

[tmanthegreat]

Sad to hear about the stuck nose gear problem. I guess expensive does not mean quality control in this hobby.

The gear problems are quite sad and I know I'd be mad as heck if it happened on my plane - and I'm still scared that it will. However, expensive has never meant quality control in this hobby. In the days of 21c, some of their most expensive planes had tons of QC issues. I had to go through 3 "Yellow 7" 21c ME-262As before I got one that did not have issues with its landing gear doors, breaking canopy, etc. I had to go through two "Flight 19" Avengers to get one that did not have a cracked canopy, broken wing tabs, or a broken prop. So again, expense does not mean better QC, unfortunantly...

That said, I don't think we can put the QC issues or even the return policy back entirely on Badcat. We are in sort of a new situation with regards to how we get our 1:18 models. JSI is an overseas Chinese-based company that makes the products and ships them to distributors like Merit. Merit is the middleman in the process, who gets the planes to the retailers, but who is not responsible for their production or any defects. That makes it very difficult to return a plane to the manufacturer, hence the “no return” policy of Badcat and most other retailers. The retailers selling these planes do not have direct contact with JSI.

Add to that the fact that the F-14s are an enormous expense for any retailer that is selling them. Returned planes equal a financial loss for them as the retailers cannot really return the planes to Merit, who cannot really return them to JSI. Retailers would have to sit on or sell the broken planes at discount, which would be a loss to them either way. I think BadCat's actions stem from the fact that over the years they have gotten many, many returns for relatively minor things like scratches, etc. and they don't want to deal with that on the big, expensive F-14 (particularly after the spot fiasco). I'm sure other retailers also encounter this return problem, though they are just not as vocal as Badcat.

Where things differed in the old days was that 21c was a US-based company that contracted with factories overseas and 21c was directly responsible for the distribution of its products. That generally meant that if something was broken, it was easier for retailers and 21c itself to fix the problem. Retailers or even individuals could contact 21c directly and often get a response. (After all, 21c did personally send me replacements for missing/broken parts for my Avenger once upon a time). With the new situation where company JSI is located overseas and Merit is only a distributor, retailers cannot simply call up JSI and return an F-14, broken or not. That makes things more difficult for all parties involved.

Now, I know its heresy to like Badcat on this forum, however, they are one of the main online retailers that I've dealt with over the years and I've had few problems with them. While they are in a situation with their hands tied behind their back (as described above) I nevertheless believe they could handle the return situation better or at least be more upfront about the realities.

[Coreyeagle48]

Greetings:

This airplane is like a 2 star movie you see on a Saturday afternoon. It has a lot of great points but it also has as many negative points.

For example, the sheer size of the F-14, decent weapon load, cool squadron scheme, cockpit detail and working parts make this airplane one to have in 1/18. There are parts of this plane that are just super and awesome. It makes you want to look at the model and admire it. The swing wings are just a novel feature as well.

But there are so many issues with this model that make you want to hate it. The spots, while thought to be a major issue, have become a total sideshow to the landing gear issues. As everyone else has reported, the landing gear is extremely fragile and subject to broken parts. I broke a part of mine trying to force it and gave up and glued the gear in place. Parts of the gear would just not stay locked in and kept falling out and I didn't want to run the risk of it collasping on itself. There are also too many parts to break. The tabs are either too tight or too loose and bend too easily. One of the tabs on my tails simply broke when pulling the tail out. Then there's the crew ladder, I put a major scratch in my plane that I have to touch up just trying to get it open. This shouldn't be either. Of course my two main problems were my doing because I was impatient, but it shouldn't make you impatient in the first place. You should be able to get it together and go. Not to mention half the weapons load falls off due to too loose of tabs.

In many ways this plane is the crowing achievement in 1/18. It's a marvel, but it's also a complete disaster at the same time. Why JSI would ship something like this with a questionable gear system, glued shut parts and not to mention a less than stellar paint finish is beyond me. This is JSI's first model on their own, and honestly, it leaves me serious doubts about what they will offer in the future.

For everything positive about the Tomcat, there's parts of it that just turn out to be junk.

Corey

[Sabrefan]

I don't why JSI didn't make the landing gear to scale. This is a Navy plane, and take a look at the main gear on an F-14, it is massive. Look at how thick the main gear is on the BBI F-18 Hornet, it to is nice and thick. I noticed this as soon as I saw a picture of the JSI F-14. It is sitting on bird legs.......

[tko211]

As of now I may choose to finish the re-paints that I have and then suspend any future repaints, including the Black Aces due simply to the fact that these are now appearing to have a high risk factor on defective parts and that there is zero accountability stance from the sellers. It's not like Merit and JSI have open arms inviting people to return defective product.
In fact it's quite the opposite. I have been totally unsuccessful in my attempts and they tell me it's not their problem.

This in turn cannot be fully supported by retailers alone and so the industry looks now to US consumers to buy at our own risk and without any guarantee. Keep in mind that I am not talking about some overspray, a misplaced marking, or minor fit and finish issues. The landing gear was cemented at the hinge and broke after hours of working with it to get it to move. That's not a minor QC issue. It's defective. I opened all the remaining F-14's (5 that I have left to finish and found ANOTHER broken, with a front landing gear door and several other small bits of plastic floating about the box.) this one was not from Bad Cat but I can't wait to see how the retailer deals with this one. If it's the same as the other reply it appears that 2 of Cats are broken and one of them is not mine. Doesn't matter that I don't even need to open the landing gear or check them at all to do the repaints. Situations like this start to put me in the middle and all I was really trying to do was help some folks out and cover my time and materials. Trust me, this is not a money making opportunity and I certainly don't need a job. But I don't need the risk exposure at over 200 buck a pop either.


I miss 21C frankly! I will be glad to see some version of 21C come back into the fray.

[deankleines]

This is all so very sad! I was hoping everyone would be thrilled with their new birds. I guess I am one of the lucky ones in that my cat is almost flawless. I hope there are some of you out there in the same boat and really loving it. I still cannot get over the perfect engraving. Oh well....