POST ALL JSE F-14 QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION HERE

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:16 am

more like JSI got what they deserved. They produced a way sub par product and just dumped it on everyone (distributor, retailers) without any visible attempt to compensate, atone etc.

They'll survive. As i said, the Tomcats will sell out, it will just take longer and JSI has learned a good and hopefully somewhat painful business lesson about doing a top notch job instead of a half assed one.

If Merit won't distribute for them i'm sure somebody else will step up that will. They'll be more planes...

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:19 am

aferguson wrote:more like JSI got what they deserved. They produced a way sub par product and just dumped it on everyone (distributor, retailers) without any visible attempt to compensate, atone etc.

They'll survive. As i said, the Tomcats will sell out, it will just take longer and JSI has learned a good and hopefully somewhat painful business lesson about doing a top notch job instead of a half assed one.

If Merit won't distribute for them i'm sure somebody else will step up that will. They'll be more planes...

One of the best posts in this thread.

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:25 am

Latest from Badcat's blog:

" 1:18 F-14s All Deployed, Feedback Coming In

As Bad Cat's 1:18 F-14s make their way east new owners are eagerly receiving their aircraft. The F-14s arrival have also given me my first opportunity to remove a Tomcat from the packaging and assemble this monster for proper evaluation. The size of the aircraft and the numerous details are the positives most often noted by the reporting recipients and I concur. People expected the aircraft to be big but most simply don't realized how massive this aircraft really is. Park it on a pool table and there isn't much "pool" left. Details such as the nose mounted radar dish, beautiful panel lines, accurately modeled landing gear and an awesome cockpit are all features that this model puts the earlier F-16 and F-18 to shame.

Negative feedback on this largest of new toolings is coming in as well. The weathering spots are here in force. Despite manufacturer and distributor assurances that these spots were going to be muted from the work-in-progress shots, they're still obviously there. Reports from the top that the spots were corrected and lightened as production progressed don't seem to be accurate, either. I can't see any spot difference from the first-produced Special Ed Tomcats and these late standard models. Most will either live with the blemishes or repaint their aircraft. The main landing gear legs were actually modeled too accurately in my opinion. The plethora of gear doors along with many small parts make the mains very realistic but they're physically the aircraft's weak link. Extra care must be used to deploy the mains and hook-up all the links, as they can break easily if even mildly abused. If I had to summarize my criticisms it would be that JSI tried too hard to impress, with the resulting design being overly complex and complicated. If I called the production shots, I would have produced a clean, factory fresh looking grey Tomcat with heavy toy-like mains and not as many delicate features (which few would miss anyway, like the BBI F-16).

In summary, this Tomcat is more of a plastic, built-up model than it is a toy. Think of this plane as a large, expensive prebuilt Hasigawa or Tamiya kit and you'll have the proper perspective for both its complexity and fragility. As such, it is loaded with many fine, delicate details that professional adult collectors can appreciate. These details make it a great plane for careful, dextrious, white-glove-wearing enthusiasts. In my thumb infested hands, I'd be breaking features right and left if I messed with it. Play and handle this aircraft and you'll definitely need to be prepared to make repairs. To keep it pristine, I would definitely retract the gear, spread the wings, and hang this gorgeous beast from the ceiling for all to look at but no one to touch."

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:34 am

dragon53 wrote:Latest from Badcat's blog:

Negative feedback on this largest of new toolings is coming in as well. The weathering spots are here in force. Despite manufacturer and distributor assurances that these spots were going to be muted from the work-in-progress shots, they're still obviously there. Reports from the top that the spots were corrected and lightened as production progressed don't seem to be accurate, either. I can't see any spot difference from the first-produced Special Ed Tomcats and these late standard models. Most will either live with the blemishes or repaint their aircraft.

= JSI and Merit were full of s**t, dishonest, and did NOTHING to correct the problem.

As my Tomcat arrives this Tuesday, the more I'm almost dreading it.

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:41 am

i wouldn't be too hard on merit. They hadn't seen the finished product and were probably just going by what JSI told them.

There's no shared blame here....it's all on JSI.

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:48 am

Ferg,
I know I'm being harsh, but Merit in my opinion, shares the blame also. The "JSI has reported to us the spots will be more muted" line from their now-removed website posting, blows Merit's credibility out of the water. Merit paid for these things and couldn't even keep QC in check.

tkjaer21 · Post by **tkjaer21** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:57 am

NWarty wrote:
dragon53 wrote:Latest from Badcat's blog:

Negative feedback on this largest of new toolings is coming in as well. The weathering spots are here in force. Despite manufacturer and distributor assurances that these spots were going to be muted from the work-in-progress shots, they're still obviously there. Reports from the top that the spots were corrected and lightened as production progressed don't seem to be accurate, either. I can't see any spot difference from the first-produced Special Ed Tomcats and these late standard models. Most will either live with the blemishes or repaint their aircraft.
= JSI and Merit were full of s**t, dishonest, and did NOTHING to correct the problem.

As my Tomcat arrives this Tuesday, the more I'm almost dreading it.

Honestly, I think you are putting way too much into the negativity of it and preparing yourself for a let down. Apart from the spots, this bird is the best thing out there. I would even say that very few 1:18 products come even close. It puts many other planes to shame and is far more advanced. I disagree with the BadCat Blog in terms of it being too model like. I think that they are just covering themselves in their justification from others that return it. I would actually say that there are many that probably would not even return it after they get it as it is still very neat. Plus, their comment on it being a white-gloved model is not correct at all. I would say that this plane could take a beating. The gear may brake like most other planes, but overall it is durable. Also, their comment on how they would have made it with less features is idiotic. The features make it more impressive and worthwhile.

All-in-all, do not focus on the spots. They can be fixed. Yeah, it is a mess up, but you will not be at all disappointed with this plane when you get it other than that. I would even say that JSI has not only given us an excellent product, but they have taken our hobby a step further with the new innovative design and features with this plane. I can not wait for the F-15 when it comes out, SPOTTED or NOT.

Black_Dragon_One · Post by **Black_Dragon_One** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:59 am

Razor17019 wrote:
P47faninchicago wrote:Used tamiya sky grey diluted 50/50 with a little white added and used it to blend in the spots with my Iwata airbrush. I am very happy with the results. Took all of 45 minutes.[img]
I hope you aren't going to shoot it down with that MG-42/MG-34 in the background.

weher r the mig u taking about

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:00 am

tkjaer21,
Understood and appreciated.

Maybe I'm just being negative today after my kids looked over my shoulder while reading this forum to hear them say "Therrrrrre's the SpotCat!"

thatf14guy · Post by **thatf14guy** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:02 am

nwarty; have you got your plane yet? this thing is just awesome. pictures just don't give it justice.

Black_Dragon_One · Post by **Black_Dragon_One** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:03 am

Birddog wrote:
Black_Dragon_One wrote:well badnews buy

because all the gripe about spot cat mert might not do another run... what you got is it...mert will not order any more from jsi so great... we got a great bird but that is all and no su or f15...

that is just great...
Again, where did you hear this? Merit, JSI?

Is there any validity to this or is it just someone's off the hip comment?

If this is true, looks like JSI learned the worst way they could learn from what some people were hoping for.......so much for hoping to see them do a better job with future releases.

i spoke to one of the person at merit ...that was what told to me....

tkjaer21 · Post by **tkjaer21** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:04 am

NWarty wrote:tkjaer21,
Understood and appreciated.

Maybe I'm just being negative today after my kids looked over my shoulder while reading this forum to hear them say "Therrrrrre's the SpotCat!"

You will love this thing. It is amazing of how the spots become less important as you gaze over it and admire the plane as a whole. That being said, I still am going to do the MOJO trick.

tkjaer21 · Post by **tkjaer21** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:10 am

Black_Dragon_One wrote:
Birddog wrote: Again, where did you hear this? Merit, JSI?

Is there any validity to this or is it just someone's off the hip comment?

If this is true, looks like JSI learned the worst way they could learn from what some people were hoping for.......so much for hoping to see them do a better job with future releases.

i spoke to one of the person at merit ...that was what told to me....

So what does that actually mean to that one person?

Does it mean that they are done with the planes all together?

Does it mean that they are done with 1:18 all together?

Does it actually mean that they are just not producing the F-14 again?

Does this actually mean that they will not be producing this paint scheme again (spotted or not)?

There are just so many questions with a statement like that.

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:13 am

thatf14guy wrote:nwarty; have you got your plane yet? this thing is just awesome. pictures just don't give it justice.

No, mine comes in from MTS on Tuesday the 22nd.

tkjaer21,
The physical model does look beautiful from everyone's pictures. At this point I'm not looking forward to the work involved to fix this thing. Will I fix it? Yes. Will I most likely enjoy it? No. I'll probably be cursing JSI under my breath the entire time.

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:15 am

black dragon......they're talking about the mg 34 machine gun, fullsized, in the backround. Not Mig fighters,

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:20 am

well, i was going to cancel my preorder with WWII Attic but with all the mostly positive comments, despite the spots and the fact that there are now 2 viable spot repair treatments available, other than a total repaint (Gojoe and airbrushing out) i think i'll go ahead and get it afterall.

I told Matt of WWII Attic of my indecision and he was gracious enough to say he'd hold my preorder til January, whilst i made up my mind.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:40 am

Hanging the F-14:

For those of you with a little more hardware expertise, what sort of hook would you all recommend for hanging the F-14? I've been using an 1/8" thick steel hook with anchor and 50lb test fishing line to hold either my BBI F-18 or F-16. The hook is anchored into a plaster ceiling. This has worked successfully. I only had my F-18 pull the hook out once, and that was before I installed the anchor. Given the much greater weight of the F-14, does my system seem viable?

Thanks for the help!

(This is a matter of importance as I happen to sleep right under where I may hang the plane and don't want to wake up one morning with a concusion and broken model

)

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:43 am

..or not wake up at all.

thatf14guy · Post by **thatf14guy** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:03 pm

what a day i get my tomcat and its snowing outside. MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:31 pm

tkjaer21 wrote:
Black_Dragon_One wrote:
i spoke to one of the person at merit ...that was what told to me....

So what does that actually mean to that one person?

Does it mean that they are done with the planes all together?

Does it mean that they are done with 1:18 all together?

Does it actually mean that they are just not producing the F-14 again?

Does this actually mean that they will not be producing this paint scheme again (spotted or not)?

There are just so many questions with a statement like that.

They aren't done with planes at all. They invested a lot of money into the Tomcat, if molds of just figures alone can cost itens of thousands of dollars, just imagine how much the molds for the Tomcat costed.

aferg mentioned before that it's more than likely possible that JSI will make another Tomcat run with different paint job. I agree. Unless a catastrophic accident destroys those molds, I have a feeling we will see it again sooner than later.

The best we can do is just provide constructive criticism and disregard the doom and gloom. No company would invest a ton of money into a mold they don't intend to use ever again.

The experience I've gotten out of this is that the etailers didn't think it would get this bad, and that next time around, unanimously no one wants spots. At all.

Weathering is fine so long as it's realistic and like the JSI Corsair and Lightning. If it ends up spotty, then just save the money on weathering paint apps and don't weather the thing at all. More customers will be happy that way.

Look how many times 21st pimped out the V2 P-51, F-86, Avenger and MIG-15. Each plane had more than 2 repaints. Some having more than the rest.

JSI was aiming for a high quality collectible, not a mere toy. Did they deliver? Yes but it's not perfect. It can't hurt for the thing to be more sturdy and durable, nor would it hurt to leave the weathering paint apps off, if anything the lack of weathering decreases labor and possibly cost. Those spots are eyesores but they did take manual labor to apply. In a recession every company is trying to save money. Leave off the spots.

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:56 pm

Shin Densetsu wrote:
tkjaer21 wrote:
So what does that actually mean to that one person?

Does it mean that they are done with the planes all together?

Does it mean that they are done with 1:18 all together?

Does it actually mean that they are just not producing the F-14 again?

Does this actually mean that they will not be producing this paint scheme again (spotted or not)?

There are just so many questions with a statement like that.
They aren't done with planes at all. They invested a lot of money into the Tomcat, if molds of just figures alone can cost itens of thousands of dollars, just imagine how much the molds for the Tomcat costed.

aferg mentioned before that it's more than likely possible that JSI will make another Tomcat run with different paint job. I agree. Unless a catastrophic accident destroys those molds, I have a feeling we will see it again sooner than later.

The best we can do is just provide constructive criticism and disregard the doom and gloom. No company would invest a ton of money into a mold they don't intend to use ever again.

The experience I've gotten out of this is that the etailers didn't think it would get this bad, and that next time around, unanimously no one wants spots. At all.

Weathering is fine so long as it's realistic and like the JSI Corsair and Lightning. If it ends up spotty, then just save the money on weathering paint apps and don't weather the thing at all. More customers will be happy that way.

Look how many times 21st pimped out the V2 P-51, F-86, Avenger and MIG-15. Each plane had more than 2 repaints. Some having more than the rest.

JSI was aiming for a high quality collectible, not a mere toy. Did they deliver? Yes but it's not perfect. It can't hurt for the thing to be more sturdy and durable, nor would it hurt to leave the weathering paint apps off, if anything the lack of weathering decreases labor and possibly cost. Those spots are eyesores but they did take manual labor to apply. In a recession every company is trying to save money. Leave off the spots.

While I agree with most of what you are saying, you have to remember one thing, JSI is not a distirbutor here in the US.

If Merit feels they have been burned by JSI, which they may considering all the bad comments thrown their way, they may not be willing to take the chance on putting money into buying and importing JSI's products. Sure Merit may have sold the entire stock they imported, but what kind of harrassment and fall out have they had to put up with from all of this. That in itself may not make it worth it no matter how much money is in it for them. Especially if they are afraid that no one is going to trust JSI enough to sell pre-orders. Sometimes those pre-orders can be a feeler for the market to see if there is enough interests in a product. If JSI can't get distributors and re-tailers to trust them and take the chance on puting up money for their products, they could be at a stand still.

I don't know the depth of communication that went on between JSI and Merit, but it appears there may not have been much. Whose fault that is, who knows. If JSI wouldn't release much information to Merit, they need to change that position.

I think everything will work out...of course I want to stay positive and I hope JSI and Merit both will take the lemons thrown at them and make some good old sweet lemonade.

I mean, look at what's going on with the F-14 now that people are actually getting them in hand, some who have been strongly against getting one because of the spot issue are now saying their getting one.

CENT-ONE · Post by **CENT-ONE** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:45 pm

snagged one on ebay this AM for $23.00 buy it now!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWNX:IT

yeah, obviously a typo on the listing and there's no way I'd feel right about trying to hold the seller to the price (I paid right away with buy it now just in case but they've already emailed me saying it was an error so now I'm waiting for my refund).

still, $23 would have been a score...

flyboy_fx · Post by **flyboy_fx** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:53 pm

You dirty little monkey....lol

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:11 pm

Dude...the "F-14 Liver Spots" thread over at fighting118th just blew up! Damn! Where's the popcorn?!

Now this is entertainment. The kicker is on page 24

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:27 pm

I thought the motto of the Fighting 118th forum was discussion without all the BS - like what goes on here. Looks like they failed that