POST ALL JSE F-14 QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION HERE

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:46 pm

Ya know, I wonder how Flyingmule was able to get the canopy and airbrakes to stay open. I wonder if there are some detents molded in?

Also, to TKO and others who have the bird, what's the best approach to opening the gear doors? You guys have mentioned that they are spots to look out for.

diegomenendez · Post by **diegomenendez** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:59 pm

Ya know, I was going to ask the same thing, but was too lazy, seeing as how when I mentioned it earlier, no one said a dime.

I'm sure there is a detent

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:23 am

Flyingmule is not excepting returns on the JSI SpotCat...

At least there's a "buyer beware" disclaimer...

Post by **aferguson** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:40 am

wow....not accepting returns. That's really something.

As i said, these should never have been shipped looking the way they do. JSI could have had the whole lot repainted for probably $10 per plane or so, so maybe $40,000 total cost to them. They could have even left off the weathering to save a bit of money on the repainting.

I wonder what the cost will be of all the returns, irate customers etc

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:04 am

From The Flyine Mule:

DISCLAIMER - Please Read
We urge our customers to keep in mind that these large plastic models are not scaled-up versions of their smaller diecast cousins. Manufacturers make design and production compromises to keep these larger models within reach of the casual collector's budget. While the larger size does allow for a large number of details to be replicated, the fit and finish is generally less refined than on smaller models. Paint scuffing, visible glue seams and other minor discrepencies are often visible upon close inspection.
To reduce box size, these models arrive paritially deconstructed and require a considerable amount of time to un-package and assemble prior to display. Assembly largely consists of pushing together snap-fitting parts and the best fit sometimes requires attention with a sharp hobby knife and/or the application of a little superglue to hold pieces firmly in place.

In summary, with a little effort, these models make fantastic, attention-grabbing showpieces from a reasonable viewing distance. Up close however, their more toy-like deficiencies will become apparent. We regret that we are unable to accept returns on these item for minor fit and finish issues.

Doesn't sound like they won't accept returns at all. Looks like they have the same disclaimer on other 1/18 scale products too. Probably because of past experiences with people complaining about a little scratch here or there even when things were going for $60.

Here's their disclaimer on a few more subjects

bbi 1/18 F6 Hellcat

http://www.flyingmule.com/products/BB-00806

bbi 1/18 F-18 Hornet

http://www.flyingmule.com/products/BB-21267

Just looks like the standard return policy of for all 1/18 products for this e-tailer to me. Nothing specific to the F-14 like some want to think.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:27 pm

Shin Densetsu wrote:Ya know, I wonder how Flyingmule was able to get the canopy and airbrakes to stay open. I wonder if there are some detents molded in?

Also, to TKO and others who have the bird, what's the best approach to opening the gear doors? You guys have mentioned that they are spots to look out for.

Most all of the gear doors have a unique feature that is not typical of releases in the past. They don't swing like they are on a hinge. they pull out in one direction and then swing open. So you just don't want to force them or assume that they swing like a normal hinge. They are not hard to operate and they appear to work good. Just be careful the first couple times you work them until you discover for yourself how they work.

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:33 pm

Most all of the gear doors have a unique feature that is not typical of releases in the past. They don't swing like they are on a hinge. they pull out in one direction and then swing open. So you just don't want to force them or assume that they swing like a normal hinge. They are not hard to operate and they appear to work good. Just be careful the first couple times you work them until you discover for yourself how they work.

TKO do you have the BBI Corsair? I ask this because the method you describe sounds exactly how the BBI Corsair's flaps were supposed to be disengaged to swing down(I learned this the hard way, instead of untabbing the flaps I just bend them downwards and the flaps moved out of being forced...which resulted in stress marks and loose fit).

=(.

SierraMikeBravo · Post by **SierraMikeBravo** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:45 pm

I am new here regarding posting, but I have been a lurker for years so HELLO everyone!

Saying that, I don't want to convey that I am being a jerk regarding this plane to the etailers, but ya know, I am really getting tired of the etailers making excuses for JSI or any other company. Flying Mule's disclaimer is such a bunch of bull. Why can't the larger models be larger versions of thier diecast cousins? For the price we are paying for this plane, which is 3 to 5 times more than any plane release even just a few short years ago, I expect 3 to 5 times the detail and quality. To be honest, the etailers are beginning to irritate me more than JSI ever did. If you expect customers not to be happy with a product, then take a bit of your own medicine and don't sell an inferior product. It just seems that there are a lot of excuses running around about this is larger so don't expect a lot, and the paint isn't the same as master, and production employees don't know anything, etc. Stop making excuses. This is $250 to $300 people, in a crappy economy! JSI dropped the ball plain and simple. I have a tendency to call a black shoe black. Sorry for the rant, but the excuses to me are mounting more than the deficiencies of the product itself.

snake · Post by **snake** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:52 pm

Very well said SierraMikeBravo.

And welcome aboard.

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:53 pm

i can agree on the topic of the JSI F-14 but i must say the dealers are only looking to cover themselves. its tough at times selling these types of products. customers get pretty upset over just about anything. if i list on ebay i always say box has some shelf wear. if i dont people complain that the corner has a small dent. then they want a discount. its tough out there any many buyers expectations are crazy.

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:59 pm

Welcome Aboard SierraMikeBravo.

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:02 pm

SMB,
Good post and we know who the worst offenders are. It's getting old trying to minimize what a stinker of a paintjob this thing has. Flying Mule's pictures showcase even more how bad this cruddy paint is.

I'm very tempted to PM Zach to save me the headache of painting this thing.

Maybe the retailers should come to their collective senses and ask Merit and JSI ..WTF????

iflabs · Post by **iflabs** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:57 pm

I LOL every time I see the Tomcat on Flyingmule's front page. It's like proudly showing off a hailed beaten Lamborghini, because it's still a Lamborghini. Just like a proudly showing off a defective F-14, because it's the only 1/18 F-14 on the market.

NWarty wrote: Maybe the retailers should come to their collective senses and ask Merit and JSI ..WTF????

They should, they're the customers too. Instead they're justifying what they have on hand with outrageous excuses.

Post by **aferguson** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:45 pm

i wouldn't be too hard on the etailers, they've committed to buying these Tomcats from JSI and have all kinds of preorders, only to find that JSI has dumped a turd on them.

The etailers are just trying to do damage control and minimize things. ALL the blame lies squarely on JSI. 100% of it.

Instead of apologizing, offering discounts, trying to make it up to etailers and customers, they say nothing. The only response we have heard about was a 'we don't see anything wrong with it', probably emailed by some guy who was hiding under his desk.

Considering they wanted their products to not be devalued, thereby threatening to punish etailers if they discounted the price on pre-order, you'd think they would have made sure they produced a product worthy of the image they are trying to create.

I've said it twice, they could have easily repainted the whole lot to correct the error, it would have eaten heavily into profits for this run but it would have made everyone glowing with joy, customers and etailers alike and they would have set themselves in a great market position going forward.

Personally i think they can all go to he77...they have disgraced themselves and insulted their etailers and customers.

And before somebody says 'shh, don't upset them they may not make any more planes' i say this: tough. If they can't do a good job then maybe they should just drop the idea then. We'll all survive. We were happy in our hobby long before we ever heard of JSI and we'll get by without them.

And for those that say 'just let those of us who can fix it be happy' i say this: what about all of those people who were looking forward to this Tomcat just as much as you were. Those that don't have the know how to fix it or the extra money to pay to have it fixed. Those are the people who have really been burned by all this and those are the people who have the most right to rant, and not be told to keep quiet.

Coreyeagle48 · Post by **Coreyeagle48** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:25 pm

Greetings:

Someone who gets one of the regular versions needs to post what it actually looks like as soon as they get it. I want to see their photos of it, not the stupid photos released by the disrbutor.

If it's really that bad, the regular version that is, I'm cancelling my preorder and spending the money on something else. So please someone who gets one of the regular versions please post pictures.

On a side note I recently bought a 21st Snake AH-1W and it's paint is beautiful.

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:26 pm

aferguson wrote: And for those that say 'just let those of us who can fix it be happy' i say this: what about all of those people who were looking forward to this Tomcat just as much as you were. Those that don't have the know how to fix it or the extra money to pay to have it fixed. Those are the people who have really been burned by all this and those are the people who have the most right to rant, and not be told to keep quiet.

No one is telling anyone to be quiet, or not complain, at least not me, I'm saying don't get upset and vent your anger and frustration with those of us who do want to buy it. It's our money! Its become an obsession on this forum between the "I like it" and the "I don't like it" crowd to convince the other their crazy or something when nothing is further from the truth.

Geezus. If anyone hates the thing that much don't freaking buy it! The sun will still come up tommorrow and as far as I know the world will still rotate on its axis.Voting with your wallets is the best way to show a manufacturer anything. If sales suck they will fix the problem or never make another one! But please quit belittling those who do choose to purchase it. It's my hard fought money and this is where I choose to spend it, if its not your choice fine more power to you.

Personally, I am just sick of the venom I hear coming out over a stupid airplane. Get over it and move on Christ. This isn't like getting married or your choice of college, its a model (toy/replica/collectable/etc)! Some of you sound like teenage boys who didn't get your choice of prom date. No ones dreams or hopes should depend on that, its not like your life rotates on things like this, if it does you have way bigger problems.

Sometimes life throws you lemons, its your choice to suck on them or not.

Coreyeagle48 · Post by **Coreyeagle48** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:51 pm

Greetings:

Well said Jercioeagle.

The problem with online forums is that people generally feel they can say anything they want and act in any fashion they choose. For the most part that is true. Moderators on most forums and even blogs don't really care what people say and it shows. There is spam, profanity, sexual references, all sorts of stuff.

In defense to BadCat and their blog, I'm surprised some people actually asked why they were banned. BadcatRob specifically told everyone no profanity, yet some people continued to talk that way. It's their site, and if they want no profanity, they want no profanity. It seems that some people don't get it, just like awhile back on here when the political posts became a problem. People need to realize anything they post reflects directly on the business and the people in charge of the site. It's a busy time for BadCat and many people going on that site might be turned away if they saw people cursing about what many people call toys. It's their business, they had a right to edit posts and ban people who were offensive.

I was excited about the F-14 and am still excited to see the pictures of the standard version. Although doubtful, I hope it is better than the electronic version. It may very well not be. As cool as it is, it would be a lot of money for something to spend so messed up. I would rather put my money toward TKO actually painting me something unique than fixing something I bought. So I may cancel my preorder and not get one. The finish is disappointing and it is JSI's fault. I hope they do something to address it for the next run.

The problem is that people are just being rude about this. If the posts around the web bear any resemblance to what they are getting as emails, I wouldn't reply either. Instead of constructive commenting, it's just bashing constantly and beating a dead horse. At this point, I think everyone on the Internet knows the paint job isn't good. The point has been made. There's no need to every single day continue to go on about the same problem. It's been said. The whole world is aware of the problem. JSI is surely aware of it, the retailers know people aren't happy, Meritt knows people aren't happy.

The other problem is that no company is going to take a whole shipment back and fix them, none. I talked earlier about a car show I help with and how Ertl screwed up 3,000 banks by spelling the name of the town wrong. We demanded to be returned our money and made new banks, Ertl wouldn't hear ANY of it. Companies are like that, it happens. The next year though, Liberty Classics did the banks! Ertl never touched them again.

This issue has just run its course. The problem is apparent and people are either fixing it, buying it or canceling their orders. In the end I'm sure everyone will be happy with the decision they make. And everyone has the right not to buy it if they hate it. As JercioEagle said, this is a toy/model/replica airplane. It isn't the end of the world. People need to stop acting like it is.

Corey

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:53 pm

And they all said, "Amen".

diegomenendez · Post by **diegomenendez** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:17 pm

I think the reason many people got so upset, Including me, is because JSI and Merit pretty much told us, 'too bad, so sad', that and BadCat pretty much said the same thing. We were looking for someone at JSI and/or Merit to admit they messed up, and for BadCat to take initiative and back us up, but they didn't. JSI and Merit pretty much laughed, 'It looks good to us', and BadCat simply made excuses, telling us we're 'lucky to even get it' and a whole lot more crap.

I think the argument that, 'there is a recession, and BadCat needs to look out for themselves' is false, because WE, the customers, are also in a recession!

I just don't get it.

I'm going to be happy regardless, I just want this thing so bad, I'm just upset at how it went down, that JSI and Merit are sleazy, and that BadCat cowered when customers asked for answers

glcanon · Post by **glcanon** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:04 am

Coreyeagle48 wrote:If the posts around the web bear any resemblance to what they are getting as emails, I wouldn't reply either...

If an auto mfg'er released an auto with a defective paint job, and a vast number of potential buyers complained, there might be a recall. But you're right, buyer would hv to vote with their pocketbook. If they sold even with hideous paint job, the mfg'er would think, "I guess they weren't that bad, they bought them anyway."

But who would buy a car with a hideous leopard-spotted paint job? No one. Because for the amt of $ for a new car, you don't expect leopard spots.

The general thinking on these forums has been, we're paying a pretty penny, we don't expect leopard spots. What, JSI or Merit, are you going to do about it? One might expect an apology, but no good corporate atty would let them admit any kind of fault or problem.

So that's it. Ignore all complaints, and too bad about the misleading advertising photos in magazines. But admit no fault.

BTW, I saw BadCat's adverts today while flipping thru various aerospace mags, they showed the paint master, Merit's adverts too. Misleading!

But I'll give Flying Mule credit, I didn't see any of their adverts in magazines yet, maybe because they were waiting to post their own pix, as they did on their website, which shows the LEOPARD SPOTS. At least F'Mule is honest in their advertising, even if they won't accept returns.

Aiken's has also posted photos of the Spotcat at the AWOH Show on their website; so they're being upfront about it, plus hv the best price and lowest shipping I've found.

So guys, just remember which etailers were honest, and which weren't. Let your future dollars speak for you. Or don't buy at all. It's a free country.

Coreyeagle48 · Post by **Coreyeagle48** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:12 am

Greetings:

My post wasn't about how BadCat advertised the F-14, it was in reference to how people were discussing things on their blog. They have every right to throw people off the blog for using profanity.

I don't care if this aircraft was painted pink and had "Barbie" written on the wing, it doesn't give people the right to curse and use profanity in the way that they were.

Bottom line is, if you don't like it, just don't buy it or cancel the preorder. It's really that simple.

The retaliers were kind of stuck just like we were with our car banks, what do we do? In the end, we had to sell them because we were out the money and the selling of the banks raise money for the car show. People bought them even with the misspelling, because the car was an attractive paint scheme and the bank was in a series. We did over 15 banks in the series, some looked good and some were hideous and one had the name of the town the show is held in mispelled. But they all sold, some sold better than others. Some sold out the first day of the car show and we had people begging for more.

But in this case it's really buyer's decision. People have read the forums, people know what's coming. It's now up to them. Unfortunately or fortunately, from what I have seen, people are buying them. The special editions are gone after all or at least JSI got the money from them.

Corey

STARMAN 352 · Post by **STARMAN 352** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:18 am

Bad Cats is now saying the same thing...

DUE TO THE HIGH COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH SHIPPING THIS LARGE PLANE, WE ARE UNABLE TO ACCEPT RETURNS OR EXCHANGES ON THIS ITEM FOR MINOR FIT AND FINISH ISSUES.

glcanon · Post by **glcanon** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:26 am

It kinda reminds me of the Hobby Master 1/72 F-4 Phantom Jolly Rogers. Instead of USS Roosevelt, it read "USS ROOSEYELT."

The 1/72 crowd complained, but of course there wasn't going to be a recall, and Hobby Master wasn't going to re-lease a corrected version. The mistake was small, you had to look close to spot it.

Of course these Jolly Rogers didn't sell out as did the Walt Cunningham Showtime 100 Phantoms.

Maybe HM fired the Asian QC guy and hired a Westerner.

There was a reason the Allied pass challenge in the Pacific was something like: "Who won the World Series?"

King O' Fools · Post by **King O' Fools** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:15 am

STARMAN 352 wrote:Bad Cats is now saying the same thing...

DUE TO THE HIGH COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH SHIPPING THIS LARGE PLANE, WE ARE UNABLE TO ACCEPT RETURNS OR EXCHANGES ON THIS ITEM FOR MINOR FIT AND FINISH ISSUES.

Methinks this may have something to do with the fact that BCA has already received the Standard Edition F-14s and they look like the Special Edition ones.

Hopefully, this is not the case and the minor fit and finish issues are a legitimate concern on their part, and not a way to refuse returns.

stv9000 · Post by **stv9000** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:50 am

Gentlemen, This paint fix will cost you about $12 and a little patience. All you need is pollyscale easy liftoff. I use this on all the 21 planes with fingerprint weathering. I removed nose art and some kill flags, removed numbers on aircraft ( changed the 29 to 23 on first gen corsair). It works very slowly so its safe.
http://www.micromark.com/EASY-LIFT-OFF- ... ,7270.html