Arm Chair Quarterback what 21st should have done

Your Main Forum For Discussing 1:18 Scale Military Figures and Vehicles.

21st should have ..........

mixed figure waves for more choices instead of restocks of the same item
6
10%
put more focus on 1:6
1
2%
Moved their HQ out of country
0
No votes
less planes more armor
9
14%
more planes less armor
12
19%
more modern vehicles - less WWII
1
2%
made the A 10 warthog and Phantom II first
7
11%
Not wasted time and money into the nail in the coffin tender terror
1
2%
Other
14
22%
Hi Mom
12
19%
 
Total votes: 63

Jesse James
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Post by Jesse James » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:21 pm

norman888 wrote:
Jesse James wrote: ...but they dont' tell the manufacturer NOT to adjust cases... That's simply not true.
WM tells us how big a carton they want for the shelf, also how many cartons per case and also pallet height!! WM wants to avoid the cost of having to open 4 different cases to get an assortment on the shelves so they make the manufacturer do it. I don't know if this happened to 21C but I have my suspicions.
Those are logistics issues... I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. Case assortments is what I'm discussing when I say adjusting cases. Case dimensions? That's a logistical issue and WM's entitled to say, "Change this because you're costing us..." to the manufacturer. For instance, the way steel was bundled at my father's old job had to change for a new account, as the current method didn't meet their needs, and the account's size was enough to warrant the change at the manufacturer. That happens a lot.

THey've told toy manufacturers to cut down on card size, for instance, which is being seen across a number of lines. STar Wars is coming down in size per card this year (Marvel Legends early in the year already, etc.). That means, for collectors, less pack-ins that are big/bulky like cantina tables or something, so it trickles down negatively. Hasbro's adjusting card sizes because retailers (WM and others) have demanded smaller sizes to adjust how much space they have to sell more stuff. More junk in the same ammount of space, basically, or the same ammount of junk in less space. Those are the kinds of demands WM generally makes to manufacturers... Same as adjusting pallet sizes, case sizes, etc. When they're working one-on-one with a manufacturer over an exclusive, creative ideas and requests are sometimes made, but that's individual product.

The assortments inside cases though, are the manufacturer's responsibility to adjust so retail doesn't become stagnant. To use SW again as an example, WM didn't tell Hasbro not to adjust the cases so less Yarna figures got out, that was Hasbro's job, and as such there's a glut of them at retail right now... To WM, that's just another SW figure on the pegs, and they don't know why... That's the crapshoot manufacturers play, and it blows up in their face when they don't adjust. 21st was a company that, to the best of my knowledge, never adjusted... ever. I don't recall ever hearing of a change in assortment to limit the figures that weren't moving and get more of the ones that were out to retail, or to move out one plane type that sat stale over another.
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Post by immeww2 » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:49 pm

I guess we could write a thesis for a post graduate degree on what went wrong with 21st. It's just sad to see the company that jump-started the 1/18th military line disappear from it all together.

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Post by WGP Klaus » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:51 pm

VMF115 wrote:There should have been more Jets :wink:
You're partially correct. I think their issues can't be chalked up to one or two things, but rather a whole host of things:
- Too damn many repaints IMHO.
- Not enough "New" product in terms of different airframes.
- Not enough Modern, the Cobras should have been an indication as to how well modern would have sold. Those puppies flew off the shelves faster than any other 1:18 21st released, how many times were we teased with the A-10 prototype?
- Marketing SUCKED!
- Allowing BBi to beat them to the punch with Modern Helos and Armor
and a myriad of other things.

It's ashamed, I had been a fan from the first time I came across the first offerings at TRU, they let a good thing slip through their fingers.

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Post by AMERICAN_GRENADIER » Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:54 am

alot of great opinions!
i spent time with many of the guys from 21C and i feel they didnt have a good business plan. ive said before that they tried to do everything and nothing at the same time. every year i met with some of the guys at IHobby in Chicago and every year they had the next best thing coming out. this was do in part to what WM wanted. they pushed 1/32 tanks then 1/48 was were it was at!. i couldnt keep up with thier decision changes. i would talk to the VP and he would say one thing and then development would tell me something else. the sales staff would just laugh! it was really a joke. I love thier stuff but as a dealer they were very hard to deal with. they would offer deals to some retailers and not others. they would say free shipping on orders over 2000 and then raise it to 4000.
I would be told a new item would arrive and "we are choosing only a couple dealers to sell this or that" so i wouldnt get any as a retailer it really gets old! many other dealers i know simply stopped buying. I feel walmart was the final nail in thier coffin. but thier poor treatment of large distributors was horrble. i use a very large distributor that would pre sell loads and then 21C would ship them half thier order. just not good business. they did this alot they plaid favorites. some dealers would get all the hot items and others were limited to a case or two. this was total BULL! there are far to many reasons why they are gone and most of them are thier fault.
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Post by Jesse James » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:43 am

American Grenadier's got a very interesting and different perspective. I like it! I mean I like it in the context of getting all the opinions... We've got outside opinions, inside opinions, opinions from personal experience, opinions from professional experience... It's been a good conversation about the whole thing.

I agree with the sentiment that it wasn't one thing that caused it, and it wasn't one thing that caused the majority of it... My professional opinion tells me it was a pretty even split down the middle, personally, but I feel pretty confident about it... They were a cool company with cool ideas though, and I miss 'em. I miss them at WM the most though. That, to me, is probably the only way I'd say 100% with them.

We'll see what JSI does though. I'm interested in how their product will sell, what prices, etc. I'm definitely giving them a chance. I'm always hopeful FOV will put out more WW2 figures too though. Their stuff's so nice, I'd miss it if they bailed on that era.
http://www.JediDefender.com Bringing Balance to the Force
http://www.FFURG.com The Ultimate Customizing Resource.
Now Hasbro, make us some Head Sculpt & Endor Uniform variations! The new Rebel Fleet Trooper gets the JJ Seal of Approval Though!

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Post by Teamski » Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:17 am

A very good thread, indeed. I guess if you look at the big picture, you come to the conclusion that whatever 21st did, they would of most likely folded anyways. Seeing planes immediately put on discount at WM really filled me with dread. I knew this couldn't last and that 21st would suffer as a result. It is true that some decisions made by 21st had no business sense whatsoever, and were made from emotion. I remember talking to 21st people about it years back. I remember the "WTF?" thoughts that ran through my head when I saw the CIA Huey for the first time.
I would have to agree that selling more smaller, more affordable vehicles and figures would of been a lot of help to continue the line. Why the jeeps and kettengrads were only a one time run still confuses me.

As I mentioned in the past, we should be thankful what was released, even if the windshield on the P-40 looks like crap, hehehehehehe....

-Ski
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Post by VMF115 » Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:23 am

Thank you Zach fore sharing all your opinion with us. :wink: 8) 8)
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Post by AMERICAN_GRENADIER » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:02 pm

Jesse James wrote:American Grenadier's got a very interesting and different perspective. I like it! I mean I like it in the context of getting all the opinions... We've got outside opinions, inside opinions, opinions from personal experience, opinions from professional experience... It's been a good conversation about the whole thing.

I agree with the sentiment that it wasn't one thing that caused it, and it wasn't one thing that caused the majority of it... My professional opinion tells me it was a pretty even split down the middle, personally, but I feel pretty confident about it... They were a cool company with cool ideas though, and I miss 'em. I miss them at WM the most though. That, to me, is probably the only way I'd say 100% with them.

We'll see what JSI does though. I'm interested in how their product will sell, what prices, etc. I'm definitely giving them a chance. I'm always hopeful FOV will put out more WW2 figures too though. Their stuff's so nice, I'd miss it if they bailed on that era.
totally agree, i talked with 21C VP michael C and it was hard to believe it was true. they will be missed greatly by us. i told him to let me know if and when they ever start up again im ready!
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