I miss 21st century toys

flayrah · Post by **flayrah** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:01 pm

At the risk of being negative, I don't miss 21st Century Toys one bit. I do miss the concept and premise 21st Century marketed themselves as, yet after the third or so series of releases (starting with the BoB series), IMO the company started a long downhill fall. Poor quality control; lots of 'just wait to see what we have next' announcements (uh, yeah we're still waiting); and the distribution problems are all things that should have been addressed and solutions found. I give 21st credit for developing the realistic military 1/18 product (well, really it was TrU who wanted this type product and 21st filled the order), but after a year or so of 21st possibly becoming 'a contender', they seemed to ignore the customer, and that will lead to the failure of any business.

I REALLY would like to know the story behind 21st, it's always been a bit of a squirrelly organization from it's earliest 1/6 days. But no one outside the company will probably ever know the whole truth. Would make a good business school study though.

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:22 pm

They should have stayed with TRU. Looked like a healthy relationship there for a while. You could go in there and find all kinds of things.
I was like a kid in a candy store (or toy store

)
There was a whole section dedicated to military toys. P-38's and GI Joe Paratroopers hanging from the ceiling.

Now it's just stupid knock-off kids stuff. What happened?

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:52 pm

The last year with 21C was certainly a tricky one. I had a unique picture being that I had one foot in and one foot out so to speak. I understood fans frustrations at times and 21C had themselves to blame for some of those frustrations that they themselves created. But there were so many truly cool things about that company that I firmly believed far out weighed the bad things.

Sure I know of a few skeletons in the closet with 21C but really 99% of the time it was a company that simply tried really hard to appease the desires of fans while matching demands of mass retail which as it turns out was seldom the same thing. But for the most part it worked. We all amassed huge collections as a result.

As for a few of the secrets that people might find interesting since we are on the subject:

1. Yes, contrary to popular belief- There was always plans to make a Phantom and yes I know this because Roy was asking for my input on schemes to suggest to management almost 7 months prior to Admirals announcement at Toy Fair. We looked at a Midway scheme, Jolly Rogers, The camo AirForce, Sundowners, and even strongly considered an Israeli Air Force scheme!

2. Yes, a Mig-21 was planned as it's 6 month follow up to give it and adversary.

3. Yes and No, The B-25 was indeed green lighted but there was almost nothing done at the time of it's announcement. People at 21C felt that it's announcement was way too early and projected a long wait (2-3 years) once reality set in. The B-25 was intended to become mostly a vanity project designed to inspire shock and awe in shear size and mass.

4. Tender Terror- Fiasco of an idea that started out with best of intentions as a pure buy it from the fan club plane that got twisted into a clearance program for the FW-190's. There are fewer than 30 of those planes in the world.

5. There were new figures planned and already in development: Red-Devils, All new FJ germans, and believe it... new 2 packs which would have included the following concepts: Vietnam huey crew with a door gunner and co-pilot, Russian sniper and spotter, Red army soldiers. all 1:18 Other us troops too...

6. There was a 1:18 P-51B developed and ready to go. It was pushed back and on a planned delay till 2008- 2009 due to recent P-51D saturation. But it pretty much was ready to cut tools on.

7. There was talk of a Dragon Wagon in 1:32

8. There was plans to follow up the 88 release with 1:18 long toms. 2008-2009.

9. I got to personally view the mighty A-10 concept. AWESOME. It's weapons package alone was impressive! Big plane, but hardly no moving control surfaces as it was birthed around the same time as the P-40. This dated concept 21C felt was part of the reason to not release it.

10. Tried many many times to do a fan club exclusive for on line sale only and never got an ok.

11. There was a new P-47 in the works. This one would have shamed all 1:18 today and would have featured many access panels, removable cowl, other neat things. Super accurate and detailed.

12. a Kettenkrad & 163 Komet 1:18 were discussed on many occasion!

13. Roy is a very cool guy. He REALLY cares about his work and loved what did for 21C and the fans. There were other really great people there and they worked much like a family. We were all very close. Hilarie, Shawn, Michael, Chapman!

14. Going to NY Toy fair for the first time- AMAZING! lots of fun! thanks 21C.

15. The NEXT planned fan club contest promotion. Was designed to let fans submit their own name with a clever "nick name" ALA Zachary "Mustang" Sharples. and Roy would pick the best 8 names and those would have been the set of US troops. So in short 8 lucky fans would have action figures named after them and then closely matched (as best as they could) to pre-planned sculpts and paint options. Roy made me a test subject when he called me one day and said. I just made you an action figure! If you think it's cool we could do it promotionally to fans.

Would have been neat! I miss 21C!!!!

Later- Z

cornbreadfred · Post by **cornbreadfred** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:03 pm

Great info Zach, would have love to have seen the updated P-47, and the P-51B.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:05 pm

Oh one more truth!

I was never a part of 21c as a paid employee. I live in Utah and I own a graphic design and interactive web studio. I was contracted to do design work for special edition boxes which included the following:

Sky Captain
Big Beautiful Doll
Sahara
Platoon
Pappy corsair (never released)
A bridge too far (never released)
Bush Avenger (never released)
California Cutie
Flight 19
Flying tigers
Pearl Harbor P-40
262-Nightfighter
Detroit Miss (never released)
Hitler figure Online only (never released)
Michael Whittman Tank
German F-104
Gunther Rall
Pudgy V

Did you know that the water in the Flight 19 box is actually Utah Lake?

There are all kinds of other fun facts about those box art elements! Good times!

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:16 pm

Its sad that we will never see those projects be made.

So Zach are you going to keep your avatar?

exether_mega · Post by **exether_mega** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:33 pm

Thanks a lot Zach for all those inside stories.

I know there was some great people at 21st. I thanks them a lot. If they read this, they will know who they are.

I would like to thank you too. You know why

phil

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:46 pm

Ya know, I hadn't even thought about my avatar. Good question. I kinda liked it but yeah I might have to.

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:04 pm

Very cool info. Only 30 tender terror's? wow.

It's doubtful all the current 1/18 manufacturers combined will ever put out as much stuff as 21st did so I'll definitely miss them.

Black_Dragon_One · Post by **Black_Dragon_One** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:09 am

tko211 wrote:Ya know, I hadn't even thought about my avatar. Good question. I kinda liked it but yeah I might have to.

so how is the people at 21st been doing?

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:34 am

You never know what JSI may do with those concepts though... They may have a lot of their own stuff in mind. And it may or may not be great... Gotta look to the future more than the past.

And if nothing comes, nothing comes... I'm disappointed at the loss of 21st, but some of what's coming from JSI really has me giddy too. Those hano's, the rocket Shermie... Good stuff, at least in preliminary pictures at least.

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:27 am

I'll miss 21st Century! Now knowing we might have had a 1:18th Kettenkrad, 163 Komet and all new Fallschimjagers I'll miss them all the more.

TKO, any intel on the King Tiger????????????

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:41 am

well said!

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:44 am

Very interesting tibbits, Zach. Makes me cringe a bit to think what could have been. The B-25 announcement was no doubt a 'just in case Admiral is planning one of those too' moves. Having been scooped by AT 3 times in a row (f-86, 262, f-4), i'm sure it was getting a bit frustrating and they wanted to head them off at the pass on any potential b-25.

Red Devils, russians.....wow.

Komet, Long Tom....thankfully you didnt say they had a sdkfz 7 in the works; that would be bitter indeed.

Keep the avatar....

olifant · Post by **olifant** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:27 am

Thanks for the intel TKO. Now I do miss them a little more!

panzertruppen · Post by **panzertruppen** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:58 am

It was good while it lasted.

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:43 pm

It was a lot of fun - the Walmart hunts, buying tons on clearance.....
I have a feeling we will see most of the items again - just a bit more expensive -
still silence on the KT is a great sign -

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:04 pm

So according to TKO, we might have gotten the F-4 fiasco backwards?

I knew they had to be working on a 1:18 P-51B, I just knew it! Too bad.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:33 pm

Zach. YES, keep the avatar. Almost nostalgic.

On the topic of graphics Zach. What do you think of the new JSI packaging? I actually like those "pocket" packs those figures come in.

skypirate · Post by **skypirate** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:44 pm

I miss the late nineties economy that seemed to inspire us to dream big. They were producing some wonderfully insane 1/6 scale models as well.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:21 pm

Yeah less than 30 Tender Terrors and I think numbers 29 & 30 were in the 21c vault. I have number 28. So Its only those 28 in the hands of the public.

I think I might keep the Avatar. Reminds me of better days with the 21C gang.

The design jobs kept me in the loop of new intel and it was a natural fit for me to head up the news front. Everyone else at 21C land was sooo busy so it just worked. Sometimes it was really hard to know about stuff and have to sit on it for the green light. But I always tried hard to push 21C to let me give up intel. Fun days!

King Tiger was all ready to roll behind the 88 S1. But sadly the entire run of 88's never happened as thing got put on perma hold waiting for news from Wal-Mart. the big 8000 pound gorilla decided not to renew any product and it killed everything. KT included. I think Roy had 1 production sample and that might be the only one. But it was ready! Wonder if someone else bought it up too?

Yeah, the F-4... Would have been hella cool! 21C was pretty shocked to see a 3rd me too offering from Admiral. there was little that could have been done. Planes were reaching a point where the choices left were fairly obvious and 21C wanted to continue past century jets but not into the world of all grey schemes. that made the F-4 pretty much an obvious choice when you consider schemes it actually harder to limit selection down to 5-6.

JSI packaging... It's so so. It could be far better. Could be worse... Depends a lot on if they have mass retail aims or direct on line only. I would do things a little different though. I just want more planes. I don't care if they come in paper bag!

Yeah the kettenkrad and komet was going to be a 2 pack vehicle offering with a pilot and driver.

Roy was deadly serious about red devils. Very excited about those.

Also- totally forgot. there was lots of talk about a 1:32 B-17! it was going to be packaged like a 1:18 fighter. Would have been VERY cool.

Oh well...

Where is that darn F-14 already!

maritime96 · Post by **maritime96** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:17 pm

Great info TKO, I have heard rumors that some KT were actually produced and boxed for shipment; but never left the dock in China due to 21st inability to pay for them. Any truth to this?

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:42 pm

tko211 wrote: Also- totally forgot. there was lots of talk about a 1:32 B-17! it was going to be packaged like a 1:18 fighter. Would have been VERY cool.

Dammit!!!!!!!!!

We had discussed that very thing here! How it could possibly fit in a 1:18 box.

That would have been a sure hit with some of your graphics on the box to sweeten it up.
Just goes to show ya, you guys were thinking possibilities like us.

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:04 am

tko211 what figures did 21st have up their sleeve??

viewtopic.php?t=16821

Grilledcheese · Post by **Grilledcheese** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:11 am

Oh, the things that were and the things that could have been. I am still amazed at the sheer amount of stuff we did get from 21st, and it kinda makes me smile to hear about the plans those guys had. They were dreaming big, that's for sure.

Thanks for all the insight, TKO. If anyone from 21st would care to write an in-depth history of the company, I might even pay a few bucks to read it.

Jeffrey