Digger,
I wasnt going to comment at your little outburst but I figure what the heck. If your happy with the constant delays and so fourth good for you, if your upset that some of us are unhappy with 21st and the way they are doing things well too bad. This is a forum where we should have the right to give our opinions and not be told to quit picking on 21st. You wanna take shots at BBI? Go right ahead, your choice, your opinion. How many re-paints has 21st done? Like a million it seems and there is hardly a thing said. BBI does it and they get flak over it. I'm not the type of guy that buys EVERYTHING 21st puts out on the shelves just because they started the 1/18th scale line.
I do thank them for starting the line no doubt about it. Because without them there would be no Corsair, Thunderbolt, Spitfire ect. And oh yes I forgot they DID bring out a P-51 that IN MY OPINION was an abomination. And as for the Walmart rep? YES I DID SPEAK TO HIM buddy and he could have been wrong about new Planes from 21st arriving soon. Time will tell.
I am going to buy the BBI exclusives because one of them happenes to represent my favorite Fighter Group the 357th which wasnt done by ANY company until now. My choice, my money. I will support BOTH companies but it dont mean I wont voice my opinion if I think they are wrong about something.
Enough Said
4 for victory contest
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MightyMustang
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Coreyeagle48
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Rumors
Guys
I see where everyone is coming from and I really do. I agree with Digger that there are product delays at times, there are rumors and that is part of the fun of the hobby. But the question I am asking is what is really going on at 21st Century. I am again not complaining, because they are a good producer of 1/18, still some of the business decisions are very questionable. Here are some really good examples.
The Sky Captain P-40, I am still wondering what the point of this plane even was given the fact the video/DVD has been out forever and there are no planes yet. Where in the world are they? I saw two at the hobby show but it makes you wonder where they are. These planes should have been out when the movie was out. I mean the Star Wars and Batman toys come out when, when the movie is out. To me this whole idea is just a lost cause now, the movie has been forgotten. Unless they are waiting for a premiere showing on TBS with 20 commericals every two minutes.
The Avenger and F-104, if they were having tooling problems or production problems, why did you announce the airplanes. Common sense would tell you that you don't announce a product if you can't make it, yet 21st did just that. They said the Avenger is coming then claim to have tooling problems. Personally, I would never pay the money to try to make something unless I knew for sure I could produce it in my factory. The F-104 we have seen, but still, it is taking way too long to get these planes on the market. If there are fair weather fans out there (meaning they buy when they see it) the company has lost them. With 21st toys so far and between at the Walmarts, I just don't see the average consumer jumping for these.
This brings my third point up, 21st has a major identity crisis. They don't know if they should make toys based on movies, toys based on history and who to market them to. I highly doubt kids are buying 21st toys at the store, it's 90 percent collectors. That's fine but if that is the case these things really shouldn't be in the Walmart toy section. They should be sold at Sears or Pennys or something like that or hobby shops. I personally think 21st is expanding into too many different things with no "general theme" Granted I think they know what they are doing making models and accurate military toys, the marketing strategies are way off though.
It seems to me 21st wants to also get things done the "cheap way". I'm not knocking them, that's their choice but the 190 deal is an example of this. Rather than advertise or promote (hey it costs money but it works) they just do this buy 4 get 1 free deal. Maybe if they left people know they had 190's, people would buy them. I mean personally, I would not have known Walmart carried a FW-190 airplane had I not been a member of this board. I wonder how many are out there that don't know. It's a thought to consider.
I don't care what anyone says, the F-104 and Avenger should be here.
Corey
I see where everyone is coming from and I really do. I agree with Digger that there are product delays at times, there are rumors and that is part of the fun of the hobby. But the question I am asking is what is really going on at 21st Century. I am again not complaining, because they are a good producer of 1/18, still some of the business decisions are very questionable. Here are some really good examples.
The Sky Captain P-40, I am still wondering what the point of this plane even was given the fact the video/DVD has been out forever and there are no planes yet. Where in the world are they? I saw two at the hobby show but it makes you wonder where they are. These planes should have been out when the movie was out. I mean the Star Wars and Batman toys come out when, when the movie is out. To me this whole idea is just a lost cause now, the movie has been forgotten. Unless they are waiting for a premiere showing on TBS with 20 commericals every two minutes.
The Avenger and F-104, if they were having tooling problems or production problems, why did you announce the airplanes. Common sense would tell you that you don't announce a product if you can't make it, yet 21st did just that. They said the Avenger is coming then claim to have tooling problems. Personally, I would never pay the money to try to make something unless I knew for sure I could produce it in my factory. The F-104 we have seen, but still, it is taking way too long to get these planes on the market. If there are fair weather fans out there (meaning they buy when they see it) the company has lost them. With 21st toys so far and between at the Walmarts, I just don't see the average consumer jumping for these.
This brings my third point up, 21st has a major identity crisis. They don't know if they should make toys based on movies, toys based on history and who to market them to. I highly doubt kids are buying 21st toys at the store, it's 90 percent collectors. That's fine but if that is the case these things really shouldn't be in the Walmart toy section. They should be sold at Sears or Pennys or something like that or hobby shops. I personally think 21st is expanding into too many different things with no "general theme" Granted I think they know what they are doing making models and accurate military toys, the marketing strategies are way off though.
It seems to me 21st wants to also get things done the "cheap way". I'm not knocking them, that's their choice but the 190 deal is an example of this. Rather than advertise or promote (hey it costs money but it works) they just do this buy 4 get 1 free deal. Maybe if they left people know they had 190's, people would buy them. I mean personally, I would not have known Walmart carried a FW-190 airplane had I not been a member of this board. I wonder how many are out there that don't know. It's a thought to consider.
I don't care what anyone says, the F-104 and Avenger should be here.
Corey
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p51
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Okay guys... that's it. I'm going to put a stop to this now. MightyMustang and Coreyeagle48, I'm going to have to ask that you both refrain from posting anything else in here from now on in this thread unless it has to do about 4 for victory. No complaining, no moaning etc. If you guys don't like it, don't post in here. This thread has gotten out of hand right now and starting to get off topic. Digger's comments were very well spoken and not a 'outburst' at all MightyMustang.
The difference is that all I'm hearing in this thread is shots at 21st that are highly unnessary. You all are treating this contest like it's being forced on you all. That's not the case, you're free to choose what you want to do with your money, in that respect you are correct MightyMustang. But as board admin and trying to keep the peace at this point I'm going to step in as the ADMIN of these boards. You have the right to your opinions, but at the same time you don't have to voice them if they'll just cause unnessessary pickering. As board ADMIN I have a job to keep the peace... and things are getting a little too heated in here.This is a forum where we should have the right to give our opinions and not be told to quit picking on 21st. You wanna take shots at BBI?
And that's fine, but this is getting out of hand. It's turning into a 21st free for all and the topic has gone beyond this contest. Thus I'm putting a stop to this. So for ALL BOARD MEMBERS... stay on topic in this forum or you will recieve a warning. NO MORE BASHING. If you don't want to participate in the contest, don't. But don't come in here complaining about the lack of this and that and then getting all defensive when people start to defend 21st and, in reality, the real picture of what's going on between BBI and 21st. There's always going to be the battle between opinions between the two companies, but I'm seeing people's frustrations in both 21st and BBi turn into heated arguments. I too have been a part of that now and then. BUT, it ends here.I will support BOTH companies but it dont mean I wont voice my opinion if I think they are wrong about something.
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Coreyeagle48
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p51
P51,
I deeply apologize if you think I was insulting 21st Century Toys and/or BBI. I am sorry if anyone else took it that way as well. That was not the way the post was intended to be read at all. I was merely stating, that if you look at it from a business perspective, some of the things these companies both do are a little bit odd. That was all. I was not saying they are wrong or right, just odd and unusual.
I also was not complaining or moaning about anything. I no longer collect 21st planes or BBI planes and stuff so I really have no say and will not be particpating in this promotion. But there are people that will and there are people that won't be, for their own personal reasons. And that is fine, it is what our hobby is about. As is waiting for releases, as an outsider looking in, I can understand people liking and hating the rumors and each side of that. I really get it because at school we have the same thing, are we getting new books, are we getting more support staff, etc. It's sometimes fun and sometimes very stressful (ie getting a new prinicipal)
I really resent the fact that anyone thought I was complaining and singling out 21st in my comments. I was only saying the promotion was a bit odd and looking at it from a business perspective. If someone thinks it was a personal crusade against you people or 21st or BBI, it was not. And I really thought people on this board knew me.
Guess Not
Corey
I deeply apologize if you think I was insulting 21st Century Toys and/or BBI. I am sorry if anyone else took it that way as well. That was not the way the post was intended to be read at all. I was merely stating, that if you look at it from a business perspective, some of the things these companies both do are a little bit odd. That was all. I was not saying they are wrong or right, just odd and unusual.
I also was not complaining or moaning about anything. I no longer collect 21st planes or BBI planes and stuff so I really have no say and will not be particpating in this promotion. But there are people that will and there are people that won't be, for their own personal reasons. And that is fine, it is what our hobby is about. As is waiting for releases, as an outsider looking in, I can understand people liking and hating the rumors and each side of that. I really get it because at school we have the same thing, are we getting new books, are we getting more support staff, etc. It's sometimes fun and sometimes very stressful (ie getting a new prinicipal)
I really resent the fact that anyone thought I was complaining and singling out 21st in my comments. I was only saying the promotion was a bit odd and looking at it from a business perspective. If someone thinks it was a personal crusade against you people or 21st or BBI, it was not. And I really thought people on this board knew me.
Guess Not
Corey
To play devils advocate here, I don't think I've seen "bashing", but simply pointing out the obvious, and in most instances, facts as they relate to 21st and the way they conduct their affairs. Sure some folks come off more brash, but thats the internet for ya, it's hard to convey actual feelings, and I suspect alot of whats typed is misconstrued and taken out of context. I'm sure there are instances when neither is true, but I hardly consider anything typed here as bashing. I realize you being the person who took over the healm for GP and being the "admin" has the right to delete, lock posts and such, but to limit open discussion as it relates to a thread topic and ask that persons not post unless it's basically pro 21st, thats a bit overboard in my opinion.p51 wrote:Okay guys... that's it. I'm going to put a stop to this now. MightyMustang and Coreyeagle48, I'm going to have to ask that you both refrain from posting anything else in here from now on in this thread unless it has to do about 4 for victory. No complaining, no moaning etc. If you guys don't like it, don't post in here. This thread has gotten out of hand right now and starting to get off topic. Digger's comments were very well spoken and not a 'outburst' at all MightyMustang.
The difference is that all I'm hearing in this thread is shots at 21st that are highly unnessary. You all are treating this contest like it's being forced on you all. That's not the case, you're free to choose what you want to do with your money, in that respect you are correct MightyMustang. But as board admin and trying to keep the peace at this point I'm going to step in as the ADMIN of these boards. You have the right to your opinions, but at the same time you don't have to voice them if they'll just cause unnessessary pickering. As board ADMIN I have a job to keep the peace... and things are getting a little too heated in here.This is a forum where we should have the right to give our opinions and not be told to quit picking on 21st. You wanna take shots at BBI?
And that's fine, but this is getting out of hand. It's turning into a 21st free for all and the topic has gone beyond this contest. Thus I'm putting a stop to this. So for ALL BOARD MEMBERS... stay on topic in this forum or you will recieve a warning. NO MORE BASHING. If you don't want to participate in the contest, don't. But don't come in here complaining about the lack of this and that and then getting all defensive when people start to defend 21st and, in reality, the real picture of what's going on between BBI and 21st. There's always going to be the battle between opinions between the two companies, but I'm seeing people's frustrations in both 21st and BBi turn into heated arguments. I too have been a part of that now and then. BUT, it ends here.I will support BOTH companies but it dont mean I wont voice my opinion if I think they are wrong about something.
My $0.02
well...... y'all remember your moms saying if you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all. In buying what the overwhelming populace would consider to be toys; for modeling or display pleasures; one should perhaps briefly give thought to whether or not the offer is really worth the agitation. a while ago I tried to contact the toy dept manager at one of the local walmarts to check on new items and never made contact- phone or otherwise; this may be a good opportunity to put a little more effort into it. the three versions of the fw still seen around town are looking tired in their worn boxes, perhaps one can barter with someone in charge to get a reasonable deal for four- this is of course a mute point if discount prices are set out of state by some grand poobah like local gas prices. but, if one could get prices of 10,15,20 a piece for them, you would not have to be stuck with duplicates, they would make good gifts- my dad enjoys them and my son always takes his friends downstairs to see the goods (DONT BREAK THE LANDING GEAR, NO MIDAIR COLLISONS, AND DONT DROP 'EM). go easy y'all, i'm not an attorney and therefore not seeking to ruffle feathers, but thats the offer that 21st made.
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p51
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No, what I said is don't bring anymore 21st vs BBI or 'where is this and that from 21st' in here. This thread is about the 4 for Victory contest only, and thre's no need to bash that either. I'm not saying you have to be pro 21st only in here, but there seems to be a lot of hostility with this contest and it flared off topic discussions that do not belong in here.realize you being the person who took over the healm for GP and being the "admin" has the right to delete, lock posts and such, but to limit open discussion as it relates to a thread topic and ask that persons not post unless it's basically pro 21st, thats a bit overboard in my opinion
Corey, the fact is that your topic did suddenly launch into a 'where is the Avenger and F-104' post which is not part of this thread.
AGAIN, if you don't like the contest, you don't have to post here. I'm looking out for the overall message board community overall. And comign in here and posting 'this contest is stupid' and such really serves no purpose.
My Last Post Was Deleted By Big Brother but . . .
I'd like to hear what MkXIV feels about this contest. Afterall, he's a businessman and brings another perspective to the table. As a retailer of the 21st Fw-190 he:
1. Paid about $16 more wholesale that Wal Mart did but charges only about $8 more. This is some very thin margin on merchandise that is going to be a very tough sell.
2. Is paying to advertise this product on his site.
3. Is rewarded for his efforts by the company he bought many units from by having this supplier steer customers away from his business and reward them for shopping at Wal Mart. (A person can only buy and redeem Fws from WM and get a Mustang)
All the people on the 21st payroll are siding with them in this thread, of course. The consumer listers are voicing their opinions from their perspective. How do you suppose the view is from this angle, guys?
1. Paid about $16 more wholesale that Wal Mart did but charges only about $8 more. This is some very thin margin on merchandise that is going to be a very tough sell.
2. Is paying to advertise this product on his site.
3. Is rewarded for his efforts by the company he bought many units from by having this supplier steer customers away from his business and reward them for shopping at Wal Mart. (A person can only buy and redeem Fws from WM and get a Mustang)
All the people on the 21st payroll are siding with them in this thread, of course. The consumer listers are voicing their opinions from their perspective. How do you suppose the view is from this angle, guys?
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Coreyeagle48
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contest
P51,
I apologize if you took it as I was asking where the Avenger and the F-104 are? I wasnt' actually asking where they are per say, I merely meant that we have this contest good or not, and it is happening. Now is this contest getting this stuff on the shelves, and if not, then what is coming, and then where is the Avenger and the F-104. I wasn't actually asking where they were, it was more of a hypothetical question as to what is this contest really about for 21st and what products they hope to get on the shelf by clearing the 190.
I do think though that only accepting Walmart recepits for this contest is going to be a sore spot. Suppose you need the last 190 and can't find it at Walmart and have to go to Rob or someone. Then what are you to do? It is a good question as Onwu suggests, a retailer opinion would be interesting to say the very least.
Again I did not mean to stray off topic with mention of the F104 and Avenger, I was merely posing a hypothetical scenario and questioning in relation to the contest. Sorry again
Corey
I apologize if you took it as I was asking where the Avenger and the F-104 are? I wasnt' actually asking where they are per say, I merely meant that we have this contest good or not, and it is happening. Now is this contest getting this stuff on the shelves, and if not, then what is coming, and then where is the Avenger and the F-104. I wasn't actually asking where they were, it was more of a hypothetical question as to what is this contest really about for 21st and what products they hope to get on the shelf by clearing the 190.
I do think though that only accepting Walmart recepits for this contest is going to be a sore spot. Suppose you need the last 190 and can't find it at Walmart and have to go to Rob or someone. Then what are you to do? It is a good question as Onwu suggests, a retailer opinion would be interesting to say the very least.
Again I did not mean to stray off topic with mention of the F104 and Avenger, I was merely posing a hypothetical scenario and questioning in relation to the contest. Sorry again
Corey
OH Please
P51 wrote
Is that what this board is about?
I think you'll find vibrant and occasionally heated discussion is what will keep people coming back for more. If, the postings do nothing more than glorify and advertise for BBI and 21st, predictable boredom will set in fast.
OK, go ahead and delete this one also.
Do you really only want things to be positive?AGAIN, if you don't like the contest, you don't have to post here.
Is that what this board is about?
I think you'll find vibrant and occasionally heated discussion is what will keep people coming back for more. If, the postings do nothing more than glorify and advertise for BBI and 21st, predictable boredom will set in fast.
OK, go ahead and delete this one also.
LoLKAMIKAZE wrote:Lots of saber rattling going on this weekend. Sometimes this forum seems more like the 1/6th forum.
Mark
I can think of several forums that got out of hand and this is nothing close to those. I think OnWu hit it on the head, and I believe everyone has maintained a level of civility towards other members, and I really dont agree that theres been bashing, but 21st should take note to the discussion and hopefully we'll all benefit from the debate? oh right! who am I kidding.
Ain't nuthin but a thang.....
I've been on this board since 2000, and flare-ups pop up from time to time. All passed when the plastic hit the shelves. Give it another month or so and all will be good with the world.
-Ski
I've been on this board since 2000, and flare-ups pop up from time to time. All passed when the plastic hit the shelves. Give it another month or so and all will be good with the world.
-Ski
[url=http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2869983520050168193AYuxRR][img]http://inlinethumb18.webshots.com/8785/2869983520050168193S600x600Q85.jpg[/img][/url]
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p51
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Again, for the final time... STAY ON TOPIC everyone.Do you really only want things to be positive?
Is that what this board is about?
The next people to deviate away from the original topic will recieve an official warning from me. I hate to be the bad guy, but I'm serious.
Yes, the boards are about stating your opinion... but there are times where the admin has to step in and stop things when the discussions get out of hand. This is the case. While I see that most of you feel there's no bashing going on... you have to not only look at towards 21st but other factors as well, including a few posts I had to edit that were rather personal shots at a member or two on here. When it reaches that level, I'm going to always stop and get things on topic. Things have gone way off from the original contest topic, and as I said gone into a 21st free for all on other topics non related to the contest.
There is simply no need for anyone who doesn't want to take part in this contest to come in here and state why you think this and that about 21st. NO NEED. All it will do is cause things to heat up and the whole BBi vs 21st battle to come up again and things stray off topic. To
Again, I've already edited those posts at this point, so most of you have not seen them. Some people did see them and did alert me, and I thank those people.believe everyone has maintained a level of civility towards other members
You think I'm on their payroll? I don't get paid by 21st. Digger is not on payroll. Do not make general assumptions.All the people on the 21st payroll are siding with them in this thread, of course
Who said it's all about advertisments? What good is sitting here complaining about this contest going to do? Nothing! Nothing at all! All it will do is get those who are excited about it discouraged and upset. Those who really love 21st and stand by them will get upset. This thread was not made to discuss the lack of products with bbi or 21st. This thread was not made to talk about the movement of product at Walmart. This thread was not made to talk about BBI vs 21st. This thread is about the 4 for Victory contest. STAY ON TOPIC.If, the postings do nothing more than glorify and advertise for BBI and 21st, predictable boredom will set in fast.
One warning has already been sent out. Again, I hate to step up and play the big bad admin, but I look out for the community as a whole... and this was getting to the point where it could not continue on it's present off topic course.
I'm tellin' ya...it makes the time pass faster when you're trying to keep up with the 32nd and 72nd scale FOV/Dragon/Corgi/Minichamps releases.Teamski wrote:Ain't nuthin but a thang.....
I've been on this board since 2000, and flare-ups pop up from time to time. All passed when the plastic hit the shelves. Give it another month or so and all will be good with the world.
-Ski
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MightyMustang
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p51 as site admin you have the right to do what you have to do to keep the peace and I respect that. I agree things have gotton out of hand and as a man I will admit I didnt help matters any with some of my posts. For those who I may have angered with some of my comments I truly apologize, it was not intended. So again p51 my apologies.
That being said I wish BOTH BBI and 21st much success because without them we wouldnt have the magnificent WW 2 planes that we have and what is on the way. And since I wont be participating in the contest I will no longer comment about it and wish those who are taking part in it luck.
That being said I wish BOTH BBI and 21st much success because without them we wouldnt have the magnificent WW 2 planes that we have and what is on the way. And since I wont be participating in the contest I will no longer comment about it and wish those who are taking part in it luck.
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JohnLumley
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ON TOPIC:
Took off work last Friday... Had my four receipts and proof of purchases at FedEx by days end.
I figure its not too bad of a deal to spend $170.00 to get an exclusive paint P-51 and I also end up with 4 (duplicate) FW-190's to give as gifts, trade, re-paint, re-decal etc.
And If I get the nose art great. If not... no big deal.
Looking forward to my new custom paint P-51.
Thank you 21st Century
Took off work last Friday... Had my four receipts and proof of purchases at FedEx by days end.
I figure its not too bad of a deal to spend $170.00 to get an exclusive paint P-51 and I also end up with 4 (duplicate) FW-190's to give as gifts, trade, re-paint, re-decal etc.
And If I get the nose art great. If not... no big deal.
Looking forward to my new custom paint P-51.
Thank you 21st Century
One hundred and fifty three - 1:18 scale aircraft on the ceiling looks :shock: damn good!
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Quixote511
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Well, first I peed and moaned about this contest because it struck me as desperate and the ad campaign came off as insulting to my inteligence. But, after reflection, re-reading the ad, what TKO posted, and the talk here--I decided that I was too critical too quick. So, I drug the wife along today to search the local WMs to find my four. My trip of greater Dayton produced not a single 190. Just my luck! I will have to increase my AO.
Aaron
Aaron
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KAMIKAZE
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I went to a Walmart today that was a little out of my way. I told the toy manager about the contest and of course he had heard nothing about it. He did however say he could sell 2 190's for $30.00 each. I tried to buy 4 at that price but he would not do it. They had 8 of them, now they have 6. He told me to come back if I wanted more at that price.
I have no Idea how the mgr does this (discounting), but some of you other guys might try it.
Mark
I have no Idea how the mgr does this (discounting), but some of you other guys might try it.
Mark
I'm a legend in my own mind.
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INTREPER
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So I go to WALMART to pick up a FW, and they only have 4 left and are hiding the P-47s way up on the top rack. Looks like they're moving well since they contest.
I get home, get to playing with my new place, and in the moment, I end up tearing up the receipt and throwing out the box with the UPS code still attached. DOH!!! I wanted to shoot myself. Oh well, at least I ended up with a nice FW
I get home, get to playing with my new place, and in the moment, I end up tearing up the receipt and throwing out the box with the UPS code still attached. DOH!!! I wanted to shoot myself. Oh well, at least I ended up with a nice FW
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Morian Miner
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First off, this post is not to insult or make fun of anyone:
As a lot, we all are a bunch of junkies. After all that was said earlier, look how many are out buying the FWs. I've told the wife there is no way I'm buying any planes for this give-away, yet I've already scouted out the local Walmarts to see which ones have which paint schemes, and check them each time to see if they go on clearance. Then I see the other post showing how cool Black 12 is (one of the two I don't have) Must not break down.....must save space for Avenger......must not break down....
As a lot, we all are a bunch of junkies. After all that was said earlier, look how many are out buying the FWs. I've told the wife there is no way I'm buying any planes for this give-away, yet I've already scouted out the local Walmarts to see which ones have which paint schemes, and check them each time to see if they go on clearance. Then I see the other post showing how cool Black 12 is (one of the two I don't have) Must not break down.....must save space for Avenger......must not break down....
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INTREPER
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GIVE IN TO THE DARKSIDE!Morian Miner wrote:First off, this post is not to insult or make fun of anyone:
As a lot, we all are a bunch of junkies. After all that was said earlier, look how many are out buying the FWs. I've told the wife there is no way I'm buying any planes for this give-away, yet I've already scouted out the local Walmarts to see which ones have which paint schemes, and check them each time to see if they go on clearance. Then I see the other post showing how cool Black 12 is (one of the two I don't have) Must not break down.....must save space for Avenger......must not break down....
