When will we know for sure if 21st C is dead or not ???

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:45 pm

why are shipping costs still high? Oil is down quite low.....i''m tired of hearing about high shipping costs. That's ancient history now.

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:48 pm

its the cost for 21C! Michael told me that they piggy backed thier orders with WM. since WM isnt buying as much or at all they must pay the costs themselves. EXPENSIVE!

CENT-ONE · Post by **CENT-ONE** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:18 pm

nevermind the cost involved with that new CIPSA (or whatever) lead testing law that's apparently now on hold. I really hope they can pull out of their nosedive but without a committed large retailer I don't see much hope. I'm hoping we'll get some info next month at toyfair. I'm doubting they'll be there but maybe some intel will be available then regarding orders for retailers etc.

P47faninchicago · Post by **P47faninchicago** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:51 pm

I remember when 21st was so excited about Walmart taking on their line and thinking , geez, that doesn't sound so great to me. From what I understand dealing with stores like Walmart is a real dance with the devil. They offer potentially huge sales but they call all the shots. They can make stringent demands on price and manufacturers have to commit to huge production schedules which stores can back out of and leave the manufacturer hanging. You don't become the largest store on the planet by being a nice guy. If everything goes great and the product sells like crazy it's great. But if things don't go so well all those expenses like new employees, warehouses, etc. that have to be comitted to to expand a product can come back to bite you in the butt if the line is suddenly dropped. I notice that some guys have come down pretty hard on 21st but I must say that losing a business is probably one of the most stressful and traumatic things besides losing a loved one that a person can go through. I really doubt they are real thrilled with the situation either. I sure hope 21st pulls thru-they have given me some of my favorite planes such as the p-38, p-47 and FW-190. It cuts me to the BONE that things fell apart right before the B-25 was going to be produced. That one REALLY hurt. Guess time will tell

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 pm

you make a good point. We've all been hard on 21c at one time or another; i know i certainly have. Sure they've made some questionable decisions at times but they've made some good moves as well as some bad. All companies do that. It's rare to see a company that never goofs.

But through it all, none of us ever wanted to see them fail. They have given me years of happiness with the toyline they have produced and i really hope they can pull through.

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:54 am

When I look at the gawd-awful stuff Hasbro re-hashes from the 80's (Gi Joe & Star Wars) the stores just seem to sell like hotcakes, that is no where near all the detail and work that is put into all the 21st Century molds it's a cryin' shame.

I just hope somewhere someone is treating those molds like a precious treasure no matter what happens.

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:16 am

Dauntless, I'm with you re guarding the molds... "I just hope somewhere someone is treating those molds like a precious treasure" Me too!
Take a look at the post... Panzer IV RC New Version looks like 21st's Panzer IV but with "fenders"

fixable.
now take a look at my post... Panzer IV...from Hell Parts look like 21st's but the main gun has slits cut in the barrel and the turret armor is different and there's more.

I just hope this mold hasn't been sold off at a Chinese auction.

Ta-152 · Post by **Ta-152** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:57 am

aferguson wrote:why are shipping costs still high? Oil is down quite low.....i''m tired of hearing about high shipping costs. That's ancient history now.

Oil and gas prices are down, NOT what freight carriers are charging.

Dauntless wrote:When I look at the gawd-awful stuff Hasbro re-hashes from the 80's (Gi Joe & Star Wars) the stores just seem to sell like hotcakes, that is no where near all the detail and work that is put into all the 21st Century molds it's a cryin' shame.

I just hope somewhere someone is treating those molds like a precious treasure no matter what happens.

Knock it all you like, but lots of people want that "gawd-awful" stuff. I've also heard Joe collectors say the same thing about 21st figures.

trigger1 · Post by **trigger1** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:41 am

I just hope somewhere someone is treating those molds like a precious treasure no matter what happens.

Unlike that precious Kubelwagen mold that went up in smoke.

DrMindbender · Post by **DrMindbender** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:55 am

I don't know if this bit of information really helps but when i received the stock list a little before christmas and saw that almost everything was out of stock i asked if there would be anything new to order in the near to medium future. The answer i received was "medium". If that means re-stocks, new products and in what scale was'nt specified.

CENT-ONE · Post by **CENT-ONE** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:46 am

some more info to add to the pile. I ordered several sets of the figures from greatmodels that crazyintexas posted the link to last month. Since I hadn't heard anything from them and haven't received my order I called and spoke to shauna who told me that they were on order and that they had expected to receive a shipment from 21st on Dec. 29 but had yet to get it in. She said that they still expected it to arrive so I decided to wait a few more weeks before I cancel the order and request a refund.

Interesting to note that 21st still had planned to fulfill orders as of last month and that they haven't actually cancelled the orders with the merchants. Maybe there's some hope in that?

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:14 pm

21C doesnt take back orders. you can only take what is available on thier stock list. they wont let you order items they dont have. the only exception is new items

hotrodrock · Post by **hotrodrock** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:49 am

This question still goes back to whether 1/18 is dead or not at 21st. You may not want to hear this, but the key to 21st's survival is not 1/18 but their 1/32 line. They released quite a few new items in 1/32 last year. The 38ts, Hetzers, Marders, boxed sets, and some new soldiers. The key will be how soon in '09 that we see some new 1/32 items whether it be new items or repaints. Any business is going to realize that in this economy they can sell a $19 tank or $8 set of soldiers much easier than a $100 tank and that retailers and e-tailers know that also and will order accordingly. I don't see any kind of big turn around this year in the economy. If their 1/32 line can keep them afloat, we will eventually see some 1/18 down the road. FOV is the same. They make make a foray into 1/18 occasionally, but they also know where their bread and butter is, their 1/32 and smaller line of items. Better keep our eyes on that 1/32 forum and see whats happening over there because that will dictate the future of the 1/18 lines.

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:16 am

hotrodrock wrote:This question still goes back to whether 1/18 is dead or not at 21st. You may not want to hear this, but the key to 21st's survival is not 1/18 but their 1/32 line. They released quite a few new items in 1/32 last year. The 38ts, Hetzers, Marders, boxed sets, and some new soldiers. The key will be how soon in '09 that we see some new 1/32 items whether it be new items or repaints. Any business is going to realize that in this economy they can sell a $19 tank or $8 set of soldiers much easier than a $100 tank and that retailers and e-tailers know that also and will order accordingly. I don't see any kind of big turn around this year in the economy. If their 1/32 line can keep them afloat, we will eventually see some 1/18 down the road. FOV is the same. They make make a foray into 1/18 occasionally, but they also know where their bread and butter is, their 1/32 and smaller line of items. Better keep our eyes on that 1/32 forum and see whats happening over there because that will dictate the future of the 1/18 lines.

I agree with you 100% hotrodrock.

I much as i love 1/18 i'm starting to go over to 1/32.

immeww2 · Post by **immeww2** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:36 am

Hate to put a damper on things but I recently saw one of our local Targets clearance out the 4-Star Military 1/32nd figures, although there were no vehicles on clearance.

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:55 am

Your lucky immeww2.

All the targets here put all the 4 star vehicles on clearance.

And now they carry freedom ops network figures and no one is buying them.

FieroDude · Post by **FieroDude** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:02 am

our local target never got the 4-star military items, but we were blessed with the freedom ops mutants

I am half tempted to drive to South Bend today to see if they have either received anything useful after the holidays. They had the 4-star stuff around Christmas, but since I don't really collect 1/32, I wasn't interested. However, with the current state of things, I may need to reconsider...

F-104G · Post by **F-104G** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:04 pm

Hello from Germany.
I´am a big fan for 1/18 scale planes and armour and collect all the items from 21st CT, BBI and AT. Hope you understand my english.
Absolutely there are many reasons what has led to the shutdown of 1/18. What I can´t understand, is the reason why the manufactures did not let us know what will happen in the future. We hear nothing more from them even from Jason/AT. The infos on their homepage are old. For over one year F-86 Hartmann should be supposedly in production. How is the state of the things? What has become from all announcing Kingtiger, B-25, Mig-21, Dauntless, Skyraider, Phantom of 21st CT., AT? Why did we fans get no infos. We are the ones who loves and buy their items during the past years and now we have become so insignificant to them. Nevertheless, no problem is to be said that in the next one or two years no new products are to be expected, or the projects have died. This would be ok, but to say nothing is the wrong way. This forum is the best way to speak to the fans. My trader in Germany, also informed me that he has no updates to F-86 Hartmann. He already had 200 pre-orders. Only a few has probably been left after a good 2 years. The rest has cancelled. Thats not the way to handle fans and traders. I am much angry about this situation. I loses more and more the fun to this hobby.

Sorry manufactures, but I hope you understand this and you will inform us about your situations in the near furure!

Kind Regards

F-104G

exether_mega · Post by **exether_mega** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:36 pm

Welcome aboard F-104G !

Greetings from Belgium !

phli

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:41 pm

F-104G wrote:Hello from Germany.
I´am a big fan for 1/18 scale planes and armour and collect all the items from 21st CT, BBI and AT. Hope you understand my english.
Absolutely there are many reasons what has led to the shutdown of 1/18. What I can´t understand, is the reason why the manufactures did not let us know what will happen in the future. We hear nothing more from them even from Jason/AT. The infos on their homepage are old. For over one year F-86 Hartmann should be supposedly in production. How is the state of the things? What has become from all announcing Kingtiger, B-25, Mig-21, Dauntless, Skyraider, Phantom of 21st CT., AT? Why did we fans get no infos. We are the ones who loves and buy their items during the past years and now we have become so insignificant to them. Nevertheless, no problem is to be said that in the next one or two years no new products are to be expected, or the projects have died. This would be ok, but to say nothing is the wrong way. This forum is the best way to speak to the fans. My trader in Germany, also informed me that he has no updates to F-86 Hartmann. He already had 200 pre-orders. Only a few has probably been left after a good 2 years. The rest has cancelled. Thats not the way to handle fans and traders. I am much angry about this situation. I loses more and more the fun to this hobby.

Sorry manufactures, but I hope you understand this and you will inform us about your situations in the near furure!

Kind Regards

F-104G

Hey F-104,
Welcome to the board !!!

How much does the average plane or tank cost in Germany ?

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:44 pm

At one time the Hartmann's were "on the water" but can't remember who announced it, online etailer I think.... Ship's compass must be broken or maybe the Kraken got them?

F-104G · Post by **F-104G** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:08 am

Hi,

the price for a plane or tank in Germany is between 50 and 90 Euro. The price for a P-51 for example is 59.- Euro. A few years ago I ordered a
Bf-109 in USA. I thought I can save money when I pay only 49.- USD, thats ~36 USD. But with shipping cost, custom, Tax was the total price ~100.- Euro!

Greetings all

F-104G

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:45 am

Welcome aboard F 104G

coreystinson · Post by **coreystinson** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:46 am

AMERICAN_GRENADIER wrote:I hear thats getting harder to do. the Chinese have increase minimum orders and shipping costs are way up. all reasons why its harder to get back on the horse!

Also, expenses related to contamination testing (lead paint, etc.) are increasing costs in non-trivial ways. The 1/18 scale market has gotten hit with the triple-whammie - increased costs associated with bureaucracy compliance, increased shipping costs, down economy, changes in Chinese economy, etc. Personally, I think the 1/18 scale marketplace has probably changed forever. It remains to be seen if future all-new product is even economically feasible.

Small Scale Military Headquarters

When will we know for sure if 21st C is dead or not ???

live by the walmart, die by the walmart