Is 1/18 dead?

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:31 pm

It will all depend on the economy......and if the companies move from China

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:31 pm

BBI needs to start making german figs & vehicles.

I hope next year we see new figs and vehicles from FOV.

Can't wait for these to come out.

viewtopic.php?t=14630

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:39 pm

Stug45 wrote:BBI needs to start making german figs & vehicles.

I hope next year we see new figs and vehicles from FOV.

Can't wait for these to come out.

viewtopic.php?t=14630

Fantasy stuff is not my cup of tea... unless its the MiG-31 from FireFox

tosborne3 · Post by **tosborne3** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:41 pm

We should all band together and write 21st, BBI, & FOV and give our input. Who knows, It couldn't hurt. ?????

Who am I kidding, they wouldn't listen.

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:50 pm

I know that on some Star Wars sites, they have polls and lots of discussion on what the fans want. Hasbro and other companies watch them and pay attention to their base of customers, well they have to because they whine and whine till they get their favorite figure or ship made. Relentless fans.

Sure would be cool if we had more of that here than we do. Like vote for your favorite plane, piece of armor or figure that needs to be made, in what color scheme, tally them up and have a run-off of the final top contenders, present the results to the toy companies, and that very toy will be..uh.. made.

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:59 pm

Dauntless wrote:I know that on some Star Wars sites, they have polls and lots of discussion on what the fans want. Hasbro and other companies watch them and pay attention to their base of customers, well they have to because they whine and whine till they get their favorite figure or ship made. Relentless fans.

Sure would be cool if we had more of that here than we do. Like vote for your favorite plane, piece of armor or figure that needs to be made, in what color scheme, tally them up and have a run-off of the final top contenders, present the results to the toy companies, and that very toy will be..uh.. made.

This has the makings of the next poll.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:25 pm

We are such a tiny selection. I don't think a poll would really show an interest in one paticular items...not anymore I mean what is the webtraffic here these days???? Maybe P-51 or AFERG could send some info to the 1/18th manufacturers or to new ones........how many guests peek in here to get an update? heck I was a lurker here long before I joined.

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:34 pm

It's only dead if you let it be so.

I wish I could stir you all to your feet, but nothing dies until you stop feeding it. It's not dead. Until there's not thousands of collectors worldwide, until you stop cherishing the pieces you have... it's not dead. I wish it were bigger, I really do. I can't predict the future. Badcat's blog can kiss my white ass. It's not dead, and quite frankly I think anyone who believes so has lost their soul.

Truly. They said punk was dead, but how many punk bands were around after that? The Adicts, the longest touring major punk band from the original kick still do gigs. People still go, a lot. The Dead Kennedys had a reunion concert and sold out.

Who's to say what's dead when there's a new person born every minute? Nothing's dead until it's truly erased from history. Until you cannot acknowledge its existence, it isn't dead. Until you have to find it at the bottom of the Atlantic to remember it... it's not dead.

Smash your windows if it's dead.

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:56 pm

I think it's been said and I agree, that this is such a small community...

You can cite the Star Wars crowd as an example of how you wish you could get that kind of attention, but unfortunately we are a small community by Star Wars standards, so imagine what this place is considered! It's miniscule...

I think the companies like to check into any forum for information, but ultimately toys need to sell many thousands of units to relaly be worth the investment put into them... Star Wars skirts around that issue by re-releasing many things, repainting many things, etc. How often do the folks at 21st do that though?

That's where your perception of the Star Wars line is wrong though too... Fans can whine all they want, but Hasbro ONLY does stuff they feel is viable/cheap enough, or that they can make up the costs some way... That's why there's so many repaints and re-releases. That's why the "Legends" line ships alongside two other basic figure lines... it's all profit Hasbro turns around into the line, and then makes Yarna D'al Gargan who sells like crap, but who the older collectors have wanted for literally decades now.

21st COULD try to do more re-releases, repaints, etc., but like I said they need to get creative. "Battlepacks" like their Merrill's Marauders set was a good seller and pure profit. Imagine a "Monte Casino" set maybe with Falschimjagers all decoed the same? Or imagine a "Storm the Farmhouse" with all 101st repaints? These things would be cheap and would probably sell well (The Marauders set again as an example, did very well). 21st doesn't seem to do that though... That's how Hasbro gets money to reinvest in the line though, and of course they put out figures again and again that they say sell fantastically well. Thus, Clone upon Clone (repaints, releases, and some new ones as they come up), re-releases of tons of figures...

21st doesn't have the "depth" in their 1:18 line to do that extensively, so they'd have to get creative, but seriosly it would be a start. And as they got new things made, the new things could get turned back around into the line... Unfortunately though, unlike Star Wars, there just isn't the same market for this stuff either I'm afraid. I think that's why they need to do things in limited numbers then... Instead of umpteen planes that bog the system down, do a couple only a year. $20 and under should be their pricepoint focus that they want new stuff to hit shelves every few months... Aiming for one new $20 item and a new wave of figures every quarter should be an attainable goal for even small companies like 21st.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:33 am

If the aircraft are priced to cheap they will look like PTE birds...

but for 21st to get back on track they should focus on the small things like figures and Small vehicles kublewagon, schwimmer wagen, Kettenkrad, GERMAN ZUNDAPP KS 750...ect until they can afford the larger new mold aircraft. Maybe repaints on exsiting molds ...

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:54 am

Yeah you are right Jesse. We are such a small minority. But it's all they have.

Packaging does have a lot to do with things, like the Star Wars and GI Joe Ultimate Battlepacks.

As I get older and realize my first love of toys was military models from a very young age, now that I have come full circle to the toys I love, after buying almost everything Star Wars, I was saying to myself "what meesa thinking"

I want to sell it all and buy XD.

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:15 am

We're all they've got for an opinion really, but I'm sure we didn't make up the majority of their sales... That's why they need to make these packs that are appealing on the shelf to a majority of consumers in the toy aisles... The battlepack format really would do wonders for 1:18 from 21st, but I think all this would take time too. It would take a while of 21st putting out these items to turn around and reinvest in new stuff.

Like I said, sticking to $20-$25 and under pricepoints for the majority of the year, and only a couple larger ticket ($30 to $50) items a year, and they'd be doing fine... 21st's problem is they continually put money into large ticket items instead of focusing on the figure line like they should have every year.

Hopefully soon they'll be back... I don't think THEY are dead, and I know BBI and FOV aren't. 21st just needs to look around at some other successful toy brands, and learn from them. And they cannot hope to put out the volume of stuff those other lines do, so try to scale things back some... If a new wave of figures came out every quarter and 21st saw to "refresh" waves of the more popular figures in between, they'd be doing a lot better. They should know better than to pack in another officer, or jeep driver, ya know?

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:29 am

small $9.99- $19.99 playsets
repaints - but not all at once - what really hurt was 30 BoB figures then 30 more restocked BoB figures - ,mix and match - some Bob repaints with something new or D-day figures with Japanese marines - a mixed assortment with new figures - that will keep people in the stores looking for the new things and finding old things as well

Tambo · Post by **Tambo** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:59 am

1/18 scale will nerver die. It will come back...someday.

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:12 pm

How about getting the public more interested in what's in the box. Even if it is a single vehicle, how about the history of it, who flew it or drove it and why. Heck even put some sort of a "GI Joe file card" on the box.

This could be done for figures also.
You don't have to make up a story like a "Jedi force file" because it's already been written into history. It just takes a little research in the History Department. Maybe even a link to "find out more" website. I know this has sort of been done but it could be improved upon.

We have more information on our favorite fictional Star Wars characters or superheroes than real people and real machines.

I doubt though the $20 price point would work for 1:18. Maybe 1:32 IMHO if that's what you mean.

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:22 pm

I'd almost prefer they "make it up" only because when you get into specific individuals, you owe royalties... And would that filecard idea translate to other nationalities like Germans and Japanese? I mean, it would to us obviously, but would the average person find that acceptable? I dunno...

I'd stick with fictionalized stuff. Making up what you want can make it more exciting. I'd only get "specific" with things like planes and such, but again you're treading on royalties thin ice there... And believe it or not you can wind up shelling out a lot to even the obscure folks, as it's their right for you to use their name/likeness.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:40 pm

I talked to my dad tonight and asked him about this.

his reply was
anything relating to WWII service is property of the US government and subject to rights...like Bongs aircraft...for example once he put up the picture of Marge its became property of the US government as long as it's on the aircraft... the picture itself is still her property but not if it's painted or silk-screened onto the aircraft's nose..... now if they where going to put a small 1/18th photograph of Marge in the cockpit...then that would be different.

however I also thought that it was a sign of respect to give a little royalties as a choice, after all. My dad came up with an idea and the air force said it fell under Air force regulations and he got no right to monies from it... memories are intellectual property and are not subject to regulation unless you singed a document...or are forbidden to speak or write due to national security interests.

Government owned property is the taxpayers....

I wounder IF Jason could shed some light on to this subjest

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:37 pm

I'm talking less about the plane's deco, and more about the figure... If you promoted a plane, say a Pappy Boyington Corsair, and the figure included is marketed as Pappy Boyington, you'd owe the Boyington estate licensing... On the plane itself, not so much.

Look at Patton though... The Patton estate was paid, to get the Patton figures/wave out. That's pretty standard across the board too with toy lines. There are some Star Wars figures that are actually tied up because of likeness issues/rights, and the "actor" (and I use that term liberally) doesn't want the figure of them made. Lucas didn't wrap up everything 100% in the original SW like people think he did. There's seemingly some loopholes that have prevented certain figures getting made, all because the "actor" said no to it. I think most, if not all of those issues were wrapped up with the second film... Lucas was shrewd but he missed a couple little things.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:48 pm

I see but at the time they where in the service of the US military how can they profit from that..If you made an old Pappy Boyington in a leisure suit and a bottle of whisky and at the age of 50 and had no likeness to the WWII pilot then I can see that and would have to pay them ...

the figure represents a Pappy Boyington owned by the US government in... US government issue flight gear....