21st Century 1/18 King Tiger---unit info?

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:27 am

Does anyone have any details on the unit history of 21st Century's upcoming 1/18 King Tiger and where it was deployed, etc.?

German Sd. Kfz. 182 PzKpfw VI King Tiger Ausf. B Heavy Tank - "Blue 104"

FieroDude · Post by **FieroDude** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:59 am

What upcoming 1/18 King Tiger?

exether_mega · Post by **exether_mega** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:07 am

King Tiger who ?

phil

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:36 am

I think it was a German unit, and it was deployed in Europe.

No really, the 21st Century Toys site says it's late war and Battle of the Bulge scheme, but doesn't give unit specifics. http://www.21stcenturytoys.com/area21/a ... newsID=296

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:05 am

DAUNTLESS:

Thanks for the info. I was hoping some of the experts on German tanks had reference info to give more info on "Blue 104" and its unit, but the Battle of the Bulge info helps.

Question #2: Will the 21st King Tiger have weathering?...Historic Aviation's catalog says 21st Century 1/18 armor has "a weathered appearance so realistic even the windshields look dirty!". The 1/18 King Tiger is listed along with the Panther repaint, Hanomag, etc. I don't own the recent Panther repaint, so I don't know if it has weathering, but my 21st Century 1/18 Tiger I doesn't have weathering. Maybe Historic Aviation is exaggerating the weathering.

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:01 pm

LMAO.

tosborne3 · Post by **tosborne3** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:47 pm

Lions and king tigers and bears, oh my. Oh wait, no tigers.

grockwood · Post by **grockwood** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:26 pm

My Dodge Command Car has some nice weathering on it. The new Panther that I received though doesn't. Just have to wait and wait and wait and see.

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:39 pm

GROCKWOOD:

Thanks for the info.
For about $100, there should be weathering.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:45 pm

There's only 2 units that had King Tigers during the BoB...the Heer S.Pz.Abt. 506th, and the SS S.SS.Pz.Abt. 501st.

And considering that the 506th's unit marking is so unique, then this Tiger has to be one of the 501st.

According to sources, Tiger 104 was immobilized and abandoned while engaging Sherman tanks around La Gleize in Dec. 19. It knocked out 1 Sherman.

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:58 pm

GOOGLYDOOGLY:

Thanks---that's real helpful info. I like models with real history.
Is there anything significant about the 501st?

Panzer_M · Post by **Panzer_M** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:14 pm

GooglyDoogly wrote:There's only 2 units that had King Tigers during the BoB...the Heer S.Pz.Abt. 506th, and the SS S.SS.Pz.Abt. 501st.

And considering that the 506th's unit marking is so unique, then this Tiger has to be one of the 501st.

According to sources, Tiger 104 was immobilized and abandoned while engaging Sherman tanks around La Gleize in Dec. 19. It knocked out 1 Sherman.

also the 506th went piecemeal into the fray after the battle started...but KG Peiper's tigers didn't see action in the opening phase either as they were tail end charlies of this armour column..IIRC Stoumont is where the first Tiger II see combat...but I will check my Order of Battle for VI Panzer Armee.

the Konig was a good design, but something that should not have been built for German forces esp at the time it was, smaller cheap and more effective designs existed..The Pz IV J was just as good as the Sherman, with a better gun, and a shorter profile. Even the Panther was a better option than Tigers, by 1944, but AFVs like the Jagdpanzer 38(t), StuG III/IV and Jagdpanzer IV L70(Aka Panzer IV L70) and production should have been rushed on projects like the E10 and E25..and maybe the E50..but the def on the E10 and E25 for sure. Even Stopgaps like the 234/4 and 251/22 75mmL48 where better than the tigers, in limited offense/mobile defense warfare.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:34 pm

dragon53 wrote:GOOGLYDOOGLY:

Thanks---that's real helpful info. I like models with real history.
Is there anything significant about the 501st?

Well, its core group was taken from the SS Panzer Regiment "Liebstandarte SS Adolf Hitler" (Hitler's body guards).

A brief history of the unit:

Since the Tiger battalions are mainly independent, and does not particularly belong to a specific division, The SS divisions wanted a Tiger company of their own for each of their tank regiments.

They were first called the 13. kompanie, SS-Panzer Regiment 1, which belonged to the SS Panzer-Korps. Basically, Hitler's "best".

Its notable tank aces includes Staudegger, and Wittmann. This unit fought bravely at Kursk, and performed admirably during the battle of Prokhorovka.

After Kursk, this unit was pulled out of Russia, and was sent to Italy to help strengthen the Axis forces there against the Allied invasion. But after seeing that the Allies were bogged down, this unit was given time to re-fit and recoup their losses. They were also re-constituted as the S.SS.Pz.Abt. 101. So instead of just a company, they will be made as an independent Tiger battalion. (like the Wehrmacht).

But things in Russia were disintigrating rapidly during the Fall '43-Winter '44, and part of the newly formed battalion was sent back as the original 13th kompanie.

The whole battalion wasn't sent because they weren't fully re-constituted, and doesn't even have it's full compliment of Tiger I tanks.

Then the whole battalion (now called the S.SS.Pz.Abt.101) was sent to France in April 1944. There, they were given enough time to train, and get some R&R.

The whole battalion fought in the battles of Normandy, and was virtually annihilated. One of it's most memorable engagement was about Michael Wittmann, in Villers Bocage.

And of course, Operation Totalize.

And the 1 kop of the battalion received their first King Tiger tanks in July. But from reading the German after-action reports those King Tigers didn't do much. Probably because their movement was so hampared by massive Allied air power.

Anyways, only one King Tiger survived the Battle of France. Fortunately for the battalions, many of its men and officers managed to avoid capture.

The unit was decimated once again, but they are re-constituted again, and re-designated as the S.SS.Pz.Abt. 501st.

Then their next major battle was the BoB. The battalion was attached to Kampfgruppe Peiper. The "breakthrough" unit of the German forces. In fact, it was Kampfgruppe Peiper who penetrated through the Allied lines the farthest, before being stopped in La Gleize. But by then, I think they only have 4 King Tigers left.

A couple of 501st King Tigers also attacked Bastogne. Basically, the flow of the battle was so hectic, that the King Tigers of the battalions were all over the place. Those who cannot keep up with the Kampfgruppe Peiper, were attached to other units.

The rest were either left back, broken down, or sent back to the rear.

Then after the BoB, they were sent to Hungary to stop the Soviet forces there. There, the battalion finally met their fate, and fled from the Soviets to surrender to U.S. forces in Steyr.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:43 pm

Panzer_M wrote:
GooglyDoogly wrote:There's only 2 units that had King Tigers during the BoB...the Heer S.Pz.Abt. 506th, and the SS S.SS.Pz.Abt. 501st.

And considering that the 506th's unit marking is so unique, then this Tiger has to be one of the 501st.

According to sources, Tiger 104 was immobilized and abandoned while engaging Sherman tanks around La Gleize in Dec. 19. It knocked out 1 Sherman.
also the 506th went piecemeal into the fray after the battle started...but KG Peiper's tigers didn't see action in the opening phase either as they were tail end charlies of this armour column..IIRC Stoumont is where the first Tiger II see combat...but I will check my Order of Battle for VI Panzer Armee.

the Konig was a good design, but something that should not have been built for German forces esp at the time it was, smaller cheap and more effective designs existed..The Pz IV J was just as good as the Sherman, with a better gun, and a shorter profile. Even the Panther was a better option than Tigers, by 1944, but AFVs like the Jagdpanzer 38(t), StuG III/IV and Jagdpanzer IV L70(Aka Panzer IV L70) and production should have been rushed on projects like the E10 and E25..and maybe the E50..but the def on the E10 and E25 for sure. Even Stopgaps like the 234/4 and 251/22 75mmL48 where better than the tigers, in limited offense/mobile defense warfare.

Yeah, I agree. They should have focused on the panzer IV, the Panther, and the Stugs. The Tigers were fearsome, but they are strategically limited.

Although, even if the German concentrated all their resources on more practical tanks like the Panzer IV, it's still doubtful that they could have stopped the Allied and Soviet advance at the same time.

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:04 am

GUYS:

Thanks a lot--the info was very helpful.

KAGNEW · Post by **KAGNEW** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:14 pm

hi guys
just got back from windy city, was at International Hobby Expo.
the only thing new at 21st booth was 1/18 Flak 88
but at least it was there.
no King Tiger!!!!!!!!
lots of nice new kits, but those are for the builders among us.
glen

Der Kommandant · Post by **Der Kommandant** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:18 pm

Anything new at the expo for the 1/32 people?
Bummer about the King Tiger...

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:23 pm

What color was the 88??

zonetoys · Post by **zonetoys** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:08 pm

KAGNEW wrote:hi guys
just got back from windy city, was at International Hobby Expo.
the only thing new at 21st booth was 1/18 Flak 88
but at least it was there.
no King Tiger!!!!!!!!
lots of nice new kits, but those are for the builders among us.
glen

Any Pics?

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:15 pm

I doubt there's anything new for us 1:32 peoples, but it's equally dissappointing for those of us into the XD. I don't think we'll never see them, they just may be holding off. I don't know why, but they are 21st and are oh so wise.

I'm still up for every paintscheme of that MiG-21, oh magical land of dreams and fantasy.

Small Scale Military Headquarters

21st Century 1/18 King Tiger---unit info?

21st Century 1/18 King Tiger---unit info?

just back from IHE

Re: just back from IHE