Where the heck is bbi?

[Birddog]

You have got ot be freakin kidding me.....d%$# it to h#$#!!! Sorry guys but I need to go vent for freakin while......

[OnWu]

This is probably why we haven't seen any new 1:18 Elite Force lately. BBI's capacity has been maxed getting this big order out for Target. It also explains why the BC exclusive is due in September and not next week.

[Birddog]

Then what does that mean for the fate of the 1/18 scale line of products BBI has been producing? I wonder if they are shifting to a new market after all? This really bites.

[tmanthegreat]

Sort of like Hasbro and the GI Joe line a couple of years back. They make awesome retro 3 3/4" & 12" figures and vehicles for collectors; then let out all those trucks, tanks, and that aircraft carrier and submarine that are simply toyish and intended for a younger audience.

I don't honestly think we are done with BBI yet. The past year or so has been awesome, and they have released more different vehicles and figures than has 21c has - and they have also raised the bar considering the size and detail of their products. They may simply be taking a short haitus until gearing up for another great run...

[immeww2]

I sure hope so. Hate to see BBI release their newest products between long intervals.

[DocTodd]

I must say what a huge disapointment. I have been hoping for a 1:18 scale A-10. I thought perhaps we would see one from 21C since they showed a prototype a couple of years back. I guess it could still happen but Bbi shifting to more toy items doesn't sound good. Perhaps it will be a nice plane but I think I will hold out for a 1:18 version.
Todd

[Teamski]

Wow, that doth trully sucks! Just which target audience are they going after with a toy grade A-10? Surely not the PS2 crowd of kids. Sad, very sad......

-Ski

[Birddog]

Here is an e-mail sent back to me from BBI giving the deminisions of the A-10 they are producing.

Customer Relations - CL" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book
To: "K M" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: bbi
Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 09:54:17 +0800


Dear Ryan,

Thank you for your interest in our products. For the A-10, its size approximately 600mm x 550mm.

Please keep updated with us at www.blueboxtoys.com for our latest news and products. Have you joined our member club? Our "Hot News" (about our up-coming products, events, or promotional offers) will only open for members, so please sign up if you haven't yet.


Best Regards,
bbi Customer Relations - CL

(Please enclose previous dialogues for enhancing future reference)


By my calculations, this is way underscale. Sad, very, very sad.

[digger]

It sounds more like the PTE F-18 than the bbi F-18
I guess that's what we get for considering bbi as major players in all this. We need to take what we can get from them and expect nothing more. I'm sorry but a Mustang repaint a year after the initial release (and another Blue Nose ) just doesn't get me excited....
They can still save face by releasing those beautiful figures! Forget Sci-Fi, Knights in Shining Armor, and get me those Rangers!
Btw, how hard is it to repaint the M4 OD to hold us over?

[aferguson]

I'm starting to have serious misgivings about BBI. No new product for months, no new announcements and now this, a 1/28 scale toy A-10. This also calls into serious question other 'rumours' we've heard about BBI (Zero, F-4, Hind etc). They may be all the same kind of underscale junky toys for all we know.

I don't know about in the US but up here all the TRU have tons of approx. 1/32 scale A-10's that have remote control features, firing sponge rockets and sound buttons. A total toy piece of junk. Is there really a huge mareket for ANOTHER one of these?

I guess they know their business and i guess this all means 1/18 Elite Force did not sell very well, otherwise there would be more effort put into releasing new product and keeping the fans updated etc.

Birddog: Could you please write back to the bozo at BBI that sent you the first email and say something like: "those dimensions are not even close to 1/18 scale, plus it's a toy not and Elite Force 1/18 scale product. I would appreciate if you would answer my original question and tell me if you are planning on releasing any new true 1/18 scale items or have you given up on this market?".

[digger]

I hear you but I just don't believe the Elite Force line didn't do well. I also refuse to believe that they can ignore the sales of their 2 WWII pieces. I have to think that any Zero they make would be in the spirit of the P-51 and made for us
Maybe ?

[Birddog]

Oh, don't worry Aferg. I e-mailed the bozo back last night after I received that e-mail asking them in very specific terms about the Elite Force Line and 1/18 scale products in general. I haven't heard back from them yet but as soon as I do I will post it. I will keep bagering them and bagering them until I get some answers. Its slow though because I have been e-mailing them about once every other week for about 3 months now. I'm tired of not hearing anything and nothing but empty rumors. It's time to step up to the plate.

[aferguson]

go Birddog go!

[wise690]

If they are going to make a piece of junk in 1/28, why don't they just go ahead and make a detailed one in 1/32. At least it would fit in with the other 1/32 scale items such as FOV.

I hope 21st will eventually decide to go with that prototype they made, I think it looks pretty good.

[Birddog]

Maybe if we put enough effort into requesting that it be completed. I know what you are all thinking, uhmm, ZERO. 21st could offer the A-10 as a Members Exclusive on Area 21. Maybe we could talk to our resident Area 21 president about this. I know the Zero is a big must have, but at least there is a prototype of the A-10 hanging around out there. I know 21st is having a difficult time right now getting already planned items out the door, but surely they can perfect the A-10 prototype enough to make us happy. Just my thoughts guys. Till then I'll just keep badgering.

[wise690]

I agree, sounds good.

If bbi is really making the toy A-10, they are not giving 21st any competition, and 21st will end up being the only major 1/18 company still releasing new products.

Is the Elite Force line really doing bad enough to stop? I thought it was doing okay.

[aferguson]

The problem is that a club exclusive A-10 would need to sell many thousands of units to break even and there just aren't enough diehard club members like us around. They need the high traffic retail stores (like WM) in order to move enough product. The alternative would be to sell it for a very high price tag (a couple of hundred dollars each) and then they would need to sell far fewer units. But would enough of us be willing to pay it?

And don't be so sure there is no Zero prototype at 21c. There's probably been one kicking around for the last three or four years; they've just been reluctant to produce it because they feel sales will be weak. Hopefully the enormous popularity of the new IXO 1/72 diecast aircraft, featuring some relatively obscure subjects, will change their minds. The little 1/72's are $20 each and selling out everywhere. For twice that you can get a plane 4 times the size, with many functioning parts and an articulated pilot figure. Raidens, Zeros, Typhoons etc would sell like hot cakes..

This year is certainly not panning out to be the 'golden year' many of us thought it would. So far we've had only a couple of new releases (dodge truck and kiowa) and both of those were intended to be released long ago. We're closing in on the halfway point of 2005 and even the F-104 and Avenger are being pushed back and then pushed back again.

We were told to expect those PLUS the F-86, Mig 15 and Me-262 by now plus a few repaints and the re-tooled Mustang.

What the problems are i can only guess. Could be back logs of old inventory that needs to be cleared before retailers will take on new items; could be Star Wars toys getting a larger share of shelf space and the toy buying public's dollar causing other toy lines to be put on hold for the time being; could be poor 1/18 scale sales or a combination of the above.

I don't think the delays are coming from 21c's end. BBI just seems to have lost interest or moved on to greener pastures. We may still see the odd release from them (the Hind was supposed to have been released last Christmas, so is probably all ready to go) but in light of recent news i certainly don't consider them to be a major player any more.

And we're getting stonewalled from 21c yet again. I've been on this rollercoaster for 4 1/2 years now and it's starting to get pretty tiresome...

[Quixote511]

Yeah, I am depressed about the A-10. But, I will stay the course. I figure if you are just patient, which I know is easier said than done, things will buck up. This is not to say that we shouldn't lobby. By all means, we should. But, eventually, they will come around. There is good stuff comming we just have to keep the faith.
Aaron

[digger]

...And let me just add that Dragon seems to have given up on 1:18 and all Dusty Trails' big plans seem to have fizzled.

[vulgarvulture]

Andrew:

Regarding the concept of club exclusive: I personally would pay a couple hundred for say, an F-4 or F-14. What do you think the odds are that this concept of smaller quantity production of either larger 1:18 items or less mainstream 1:18 items would be implemented by 21st?

[Morian Miner]

The highs and lows of 1/18 collection.

High - Some new plane/figure/vehicle on the horizon, according to source!
Low - No official word for months
High - Prototype photos and release date!
Low - endless release delays
High - Miraculously shows up in stores!!!!
Low - most parts of country never see them
High - Clearance! Bought 20 for $1.
Low - some people still never seen them in stores.

.......and on, and on, and on. Repeat as necessary for each plane/figure/vehicle.

[aferguson]

vulgarvulture: i would pay that much too but would enough people be willing to, is the question and the problem.

I discussed this concept briefly with Roy once and there was some interest in it but it would be a very low priority plan for them, as profitibility would be low on this type of item and risk somewhat high. It may happen one day but i wouldn't expect to see it for years, to be honest.

[Birddog]

I would gladly pay a couple hundred dollars for an A-10 as I'm sure many here would pay just as much for other aircraft that they treasure. I think offering FAN CLUB MEMBERS things that hold to their interests should be looked at seriously. I'm sure that they get enough inquiries and monitor this board enough to know what items are constantly being asked for and desired. They know the number of each item that has to be sold on the mass market to make producing it profitable. If they make exclusives, I'm sure they can plan a certain number to produce with pricing that will make them profitable.

I think they could break their items into three selling categories:

1. Member Exclusives- this could consists of aircraft like the P-39 and P-61, they have limited sales appeal to the mass market but great sales appeal to collectors

2. Online Retail- could consist of aircraft like the A-10 and F-4, they have a great sales potential because of recognizability but certain brick and mortar outlets don't want to give up the shelf space for their packaging. However they could still be available to brick and mortar outlets if they want to order them for sale. Online retailers like Bad Cat could offer these with their many paint schemes. They could even offer the "Roll Your Own" options.

3. Mass Market Retail- would consist of aircraft they are currently persuing to produce. They fit in their "ONE" box strategy and evidently market well enough in this field to keep churning them out like they do.

The next key is to ADVERTISE. Put a catalog of all the products they offer in the package with the item. Advertise the website in the catalog and on "the box" to draw in more inquiring customers and entice them to join the fan club with the exclusives they can get only as members or even a non-member price. While these customers (now hopefully members) are browsing the website they will see the online retailers and know where to purchase category 2 products (Hopefully increasing the sell of these items or causing the customers to ask their local brick and mortar establishments if they can get them). (Some of the category 2 products might sell enough to cause 21st to make another production run and see where they might have been wrong about not producing them in the first place.) This will give the online retailers more business and advertisement. The interests in products unavailable at brick and mortar outlets may cause those outlets to have a change of heart with shelf space and order them themselves.

As for production....well as I stated earlier they know how much they need to produce or how much to price the item for the number they produce to make it profitable.



I'm no marketing and advertising major by far and I'm sure that this has all been thought out by 21st......... but it sounds good on paper and in my head.

Just my thoughts and ideas.

[DocTodd]

Birddog-you need to go and work for the company. I like your strategy and I think it might work. We just need to convince them (21st C) to look at this and give it a try. I wonder how fast an average item goes from drawing board to mass production? I'm not talking about the ever delayed Avenger.

Todd

[Tinman]

The WWII pieces bbi released so far (Sherman, Mustang) just whet my appetite for more of the same from them! It's a real shame if they're not going to follow through....