Admiral 1/18 F-4 Phantom?

[Birddog]

Thanks for the update TKO. My question is , why did 21st Century ever release that ad showing the F-4 for 89 dollars? I have no idea why a company would show ads for a product it might never make?

Good question.

Unfortunately I think we all know deep down why that card was played. That announcement was made not to long after the proposed price for Admiral's 1/18 F-4 appeared. That was done before any specific paint schemes were announced so I think that move was to entice fans to make a decision for a different reason.

[VMF115]

Thanks Zach

[KAGNEW]

FUBAR again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we no get a big F-4!!!!!!!!!!!!

[VMF115]

I want a F-4 in 1/18th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I want it NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! also a Mig-21 please

[KAGNEW]

the only way is to build our own. unless Jason steps up to the plate.

[olifant]

Is anyone really surprised by this news?

Thanks Zach for both the heads up and calling it as it is...

[iflabs]

What were they planning to do, every time AT or BBI announces a release, they contact a professional modeler and ask them to build a Tamiya model just so 21st can say, "Ooh, ooh, we were planning one too all along!!!"

Oh I forgot. BBI is a giant compared to 21st. So 21st will just bully around the small guys.

Karma will get you, sooner or later.

OMG! LOL!

21st drops in coincidently after admiral gives us the good news on a possible F-4. Hmmmmm...

[KAGNEW]

MAYBE!
thats one reason Roy got canned. he was to honest!
i think the boss at 21st must be having some wrong ideas.

got to big for his own good.

[digger]

What were they planning to do, every time AT or BBI announces a release, they contact a professional modeler and ask them to build a Tamiya model just so 21st can say, "Ooh, ooh, we were planning one too all along!!!"

Oh I forgot. BBI is a giant compared to 21st. So 21st will just bully around the small guys..

The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him.

- Sun Tzu

As I've said all along, AT should have just pressed forward with their F-4, and not let 21C impose their will.

[VMF115]

Me thinks if 21st never mentioned or planed on making an F-4 and AT went ahead and with theirs we would still have a long wait. Basically we still would not have an F-4 it would share the same fate as the SBD and A-1.……..those two need to come out first. While the SBD was announced first and the A1 2nd. the A1 is special to Jason and Jim, since there father flew it and would have been the next AC in the line to be made...if not Jason can correct me. Btw I would have bought both 21st and AT F-4's.

[tko211]

What were they planning to do, every time AT or BBI announces a release, they contact a professional modeler and ask them to build a Tamiya model just so 21st can say, "Ooh, ooh, we were planning one too all along!!!"

Oh I forgot. BBI is a giant compared to 21st. So 21st will just bully around the small guys.

Karma will get you, sooner or later.

Well that, that argument doesn't hold water with me because 21C never announced, price cut, or activated modelers to build the A1 or the Dauntless! -know what I'm saying?

As VMF point's out... We still don't have the A1 or Dauntless yet so... NO I don't think 21C screwed up anything for Admiral and No I don't think we would have an F-4 yet. How long have people waited for a simple repaint hartman F-86? -didn't it just get cancelled? Did 21C release a flyer announcing a Hartman F-86 that I don't know about?

Not to beat up on Admiral AT ALL, In fact I fully understand the delays and patiently wait. (I DO what an SBD)- I think as I had mentioned before the market has changed. There is evidence all over the place from every camp. (not just 21C) It's not like the F-4 or any other plane for that matter is Secret, unique, or anything else. Everyone has the same playbook, everyone knows what has already been made, and the A list of what to do next is indeed pretty short. -ANY company who has the gumption to enter into 1:18 at this stage runs EXTREME risk of duplication, ESPECIALLY on A-list AC.

21C had thought about an SBD, a Wildcat, Hellcat, Zero, and on and on... would that be news to anyone... Not really! The other companies have thought about the same stuff. 21C decided not to build the zero, yet nobody cried foul on BBI for making one AFTER 21C showed an early prototype.

The F-4 would have been a SMART choice which is why both companies thought of it. -At the same time you say?.. Well perhaps not the same day or same hour. You can call me a liar (I really don't care, but 21C was thinking and planning and starting an F-4 for several months before Toy Fair.) I know because I had the discussions with Roy EARLY on about schemes. (there were some cool schemes by the way) S1 was HIGHLY debated for months prior and post Toy Fair, -Hence the F-4 model build.

21C always had intentions to build it, they wanted to price it for 89.00 bucks and had a soft commitment on the hook from mass retail to help back that price. It's that simple, it's that matter of fact. Admiral at Toy Fair took everyone by surprise and unknowingly forced 21C to make a decision. Do we go forward? Do we just scrap a great idea and say o-well knowing all along that mass retail was initially expressing early interest in supporting it at an affordable price? Has anyone EVEN asked if it was WM that killed the F-4?

Well 21C took what they knew with the Admiral F-86, and the BBI Mustang, and said "sure why not offer a choice. It's worked ok in the past and hopefully mass retail will fully back our play and give a price edge." GUESS WHAT! Thats called a business decision. Nothing more. I know the F-4 is a dead horse issue and should have been long put to bed.

I know we still talk about it because we all want one and we are disappointed because we don't have one. So I get that... and I am sorry for the rant but, I find it amazing how many times it's fans who have 75% of their 1:18 collections made up of 21C product that say what a stupid or crappy or evil company 21C is. -Don't buy their product, burn your 21C collection, boycott it and perhaps these kinds of arguments will carry more weight.
Until then, it's just uninformed emotion in my opinion.

[tko211]

Ok now that I have caught my breath.

I Also want an F-4 I don't care who makes it, I don't care if it's 89, 99, 109, 209. I will buy one two and even three!

Someone please just make it!

-TKO

[KAGNEW]

Well said!
thanx for infomation.
i hope we get one
i also would buy several

[Birddog]

and still there sits a perfect looking developed 1/18 A-10 prototype just waiting for attention and love.........maybe one day.......someone will make it......

[Jolly Roger]

and still there sits a perfect looking developed 1/18 A-10 prototype just waiting for attention and love.........maybe one day.......someone will make it......

seems like we have alot of proto's sitting around collecting dust instead of flying from our roofs.

I dont buy repaints, i buy new models. So as of now, no one is getting my money.

[tko211]

and still there sits a perfect looking developed 1/18 A-10 prototype just waiting for attention and love.........maybe one day.......someone will make it......

I just knew you were going to pop in with an A-10 comment! You act like you you have been waiting for YEARS... j/k

Oh yeah- we have been waiting, still with no end in sight!

[KAGNEW]

has anyone heard Anything new from 21st managment in the last couple of weeks? good or bad.


i hear things from friends in modeling. and financial partners about their busness. but I was wanting to hear something from horses mouth, so to speak.

[GooglyDoogly]

As VMF point's out... We still don't have the A1 or Dauntless yet so... NO I don't think 21C screwed up anything for Admiral and No I don't think we would have an F-4 yet.

True, but at least we know those are going to be released eventually, unlike the F4...

It's not like the F-4 or any other plane for that matter is Secret, unique, or anything else. Everyone has the same playbook, everyone knows what has already been made, and the A list of what to do next is indeed pretty short.

Again, true...but do you honestly think that there's no motive for 21st announcing the F-4 when AT announced theirs?

You yourself said that 21st rushed to get a 1/32 Tamiya model kit finished. Why all the rush? You say that 21st has been planning an F4 months ahead, and that you talked to Roy about different paint schemes for the F-4? So where's the picture of the mold? There's not even a paint master yet. All 21st had shown was ust a rushed job with a 1/32 Tamiya kit.

21C always had intentions to build it, they wanted to price it for 89.00 bucks and had a soft commitment on the hook from mass retail to help back that price. It's that simple, it's that matter of fact.

Highly unbelievable. How much was the MSRP of the re-tooled Mustang back then? So 21st was really planning to release the biggest and most detailed 1/18th aircraft for $89.99?

I am more inclined to believe your own previous words...

21C didn't want to announce the Phantom that early but felt they needed to follow suit so that fans could make decisions from there.

Yep, 21st wanted the fans to make a decision whether to buy a 89.99 Phantom, vs a $149.99 Phantom. See? You proved it yourself. 21st was trying to pee on AT's wonderful announcement.

21C decided not to build the zero, yet nobody cried foul on BBI for making one AFTER 21C showed an early prototype.

Maybe because that 21st had shelved their Zero indefinitely, despite of the fans' desire for one. Asked why they chose not to produce it, 21st said something about Japanese planes are not gonna be big sellers.

So why would we cry foul over that? 21st refused to make it. BBI did. So kudos for BBI on that one.

Besides, BBI didn't make a flyer showing their zero a few days after 21st showed their zero prototype. And they also showed an actual 1/18th production model when they did announce THEIR Zero...and not some rushed job of a 1/32 Tamiya kit.

Well 21C took what they knew with the Admiral F-86, and the BBI Mustang, and said "sure why not offer a choice. It's worked ok in the past and hopefully mass retail will fully back our play and give a price edge." GUESS WHAT! Thats called a business decision. Nothing more. I know the F-4 is a dead horse issue and should have been long put to bed.

Yep it was a business decision. A really underhanded one. I never meant to imply that 21st was simply being mean to AT. It was a business decision to run AT to the ground.

And yes, this issue is a dead horse. But it just...galls me that 21st had used this forum and this community to spy on, and spread misinformation in order to one-up the competition.
[/quote]

[VMF115]

Thank for the Info Zach. So the F-4 from 21st is dead in the water I was really looking forward to see Roy’s next creation especially the F-4- Mig 21, and the B-25.

[olifant]

Thanks Zach for the heads up. Don't feel badly about defending 21C; unless any of us were in the meetings to decide this we really don't know what was going on.

I am sure if there was some way they thought they could bring an F4, MIG21 or B25 out and make money, I am sure they would.

I love my 21C stuff and hope to spend $$$ in years to come supporting them. Even that pink 88MM.

[supersonicfifi]

For me i like to have 2 planes from 2 manufacturers as long as the paint schemes are different (I ve got 2 x P-51 D , 2 x Me 109 and 2 x F 4 corsair from BBI and 21st ) i like to compare them and think that since ADMIRAL was commited to a USAF Phantom , there was room for a NAVY version for 21st CT ! or an F4E "long nose" ! i am sur interested in all 3 and would gladly buy them (even if my display space is shrinking ! )

OK so now we are ready ! bring them on !

Of course if before the PHANTOM the manufacturers prefer to make the A 10 we are ready too

[KAGNEW]

I think the F-4 would be best seller. so its to be done first as a proffit maker, then an A-10

[tkjaer21]

I just feel as a collector, the 21st announcement on the F-4, caused a delay in the products being made for both companies and thus, we do not have anything new at all. It has been over a year and nothing new besides action figures. AT and 21st could at this moment be reapig the benifits of their products that would have been released. The 21st F-4 fiasco had consequences as we can see.

Results: We get little to no information from the companies, A lead designer has been fired, No product on the shelf currently for armor nor aircraft, Both F-4s seem to be cancelled and lastly, many people are giving up on the hobby as it feels IMHO. It is just all around sad for the companies and for us. 21st screwed this up for us in that they are the culprit in all of this.

BTW, I love 21st and would buy anything that they put out. I am just dissapointed at the current results. Perhaps, in the future (currently), things are being done and we will see the glory of 1:18 again as we have done so in the past.

[KAGNEW]

I think we have bashed them enough. i just wish someone would build a 1/18 F-4

[B-29]

I just noticed The Motorpool has the F-4 and Mig 21 listed as "Ship date 2009". Does this mean they're not dead?