88 gun still in the works?

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:57 pm

my guess is the 88 was comming out eastern front first as we first found the eastern front officer with range finder first - probably was supposed to come out at the same time as that figure. Then it was pushed back and DAK figures started to come out so they added the officer with Range Finder in DAK to go along with the release of the 88. I think the 88 will actually come out with museum guard and patrons sitting on a bench and taking photographs of the 88.

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:00 pm

STUKA wrote:I think DAK is kinda glanced over now because there was so many of them to start with - I bought tons - then TRU restocked with more and more and more then WM stocked them....and stocked them and clearanced them for a penny higher than the original price then clearanced them regular price.....and clearanced the stock boy and restocked them.

The samething happened here, but after they did their reset all we have now is platoon figs

i have to drive 50 to 80 miles to find new stuff.

olifant · Post by **olifant** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:21 pm

Wow, gone a couple of days and the knives have come out over grey vs. DAK!

On the plus side, I don't think this is a terribly tough job to kick out both paint schemes at once. It isn't like either will be terribly involved camo or anything.

I will be glad to have one regardless of the color.

lightning2000 · Post by **lightning2000** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:30 pm

Hi,
My money is on a Hades hot red version, with flames on the side, a shark mouth, spinner hubcaps, and maybe, just maybe, a towable latrine. But hey, I've been wrong before...

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:36 pm

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:14 pm

* Sure , opinions are voiced and not always welcomed here , but what some a you guys have been saying , is only detrimental to the 1:18 hobby. I'm merely only trying to help moral and support it by saying

Uh... Really? You believe that?

I think what anyone says here honestly doesn't make a difference... Toy companies read forums but usually it's for ideas and just to see what buzz is going on... They don't cancel ideas because a couple people say "I don't like that". If the 88 coming is DAK, that's how it is and no matter what's said here, that won't change... The question becomes then, who's right or will circumstances prevent anyone from even finding out?

If the 88 comes out in very sparse numbers, it could be pink and it would sell well... If it comes out in droves for some reason (hypothetically here), it'll shelf warm regardless of color... That's just how retail sales work usually. Look at the PAK... people couldn't find the grey ones, but the camo ones are everywhere and are now easy to get. We'll never really know if it was ever a great seller or not as companies never share that kind of info to us it seems.

I personally will pass on the 88 unless it shows at a mass retailer at a better price than online stores have had it at. I'd be much more interested in plunking the dough on the Tiger I, but even that I'm considering passing on due to the early price indicators. We'll see though... I don't need any of this stuff honestly so if I don't get it I won't be crying about it either. I'm actually much more content with figures. I'd love the armor and artillery though, but only at a price I feel is fair.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:07 am

I agree with Mg-42

It was like no surprise that the first 88 was going to be a DAK tan version, it also makes sense that 21st would make it a DAK version since 21st has figures in the DAK campaign. Also the first paint scheme was shown at the toyfair as a DAK so why all the controversy now ?

Btw I also don’t want a DAK 88 I guess I will have fun painting it Panzer Gray with all the nooks and crannies.

Btw that’s the fun part!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lets not all be petty-nit picking here. I am glad to get it in any paint scheme!!!

Paint away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by **aferguson** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:40 am

yes i'm glad if it comes out too......regardless of colour. My point was and still is, for the financial sake of 21c, i feel they should make it in dark grey first.

DAK will not sell as well as dark grey. No question on this. So, since they are obviously on shakey ground, they need to maximize profit and get return on investment as quickly as possible from any production run they are able to do. Thus, they need to put out the more popular dark grey one first.

And i don't see how doing a fiddly re-paint job is 'fun'. It's just annoying.

And it makes WAY more sense to do it in non DAK since all the have in DAK is a handful of soldiers but they have TONS of western/eastern front figures, vehicles and guns. So DAK is the oddball. Don't get me wrong....i love Afrika Korp stuff. But the reality is it's not as popular as western front and then eastern front stuff. I'd rather have to repaint one in DAK colours than 4 in dark grey.

Since they clearly have not been produced yet and since dark grey is the obvious choice for a first release, i strongly suspect it will first come out in dark grey, if it comes out at all.

As TKO said, the thinking behind doing DAK first was for it to go along with the then just released DAK figures. Since that release is now old news it doesnt make much sense to release it in a less in demand paint scheme now. So, it will most likely come out in dark grey.

Doing both at the same time would also be a good idea but since 21c has never released two paint schemes at the same time before and since it costs more to do that, i think it very unlikely.

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:47 am

i don't see how doing a fiddly re-paint job is 'fun'. It's just annoying.

I'm with ya there... that's for sure.

It's not that I can't paint, for me it is simply a question of time...I just don't have the time available to do it properly, and in a way I would be happy with, and proud to show off. I also don't have the same kind of natural talent for it like some guys do. This is probably the biggest reason I made the jump from kit building to pre-built, pre-painted models in the first place.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:50 am

One word Airbrush.

The airbrush can get in all those hard spots. if you don't have one you can get a cheap one from testers and a can of air.

Post by **aferguson** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:17 am

i know how to use an airbrush. I have two. It's still a pain to set it up and clean up after. Big pain. Plus, if you look at the 88 and it's carriage there is no possible way you could paint it well without taking most of it apart. If you didn't you'd have all kinds of paint shadows where the stream from the airbrush couldn't reach because of other parts in front or overhanging. Or in an effort to reach those nooks and crannies you end up gobbing on way too much paint in other areas.

So, it's nice not to have to repaint, doncha think?

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:29 am

you can get a cheap one from testers and a can of air.

Trust me... those don't work worth crap, been there, done that. They're OK for about a minute of painting for touch up work and that sort of thing, but for any kind of serious longer duration painting they are basically worthless. I have a $200 Aztek airbrush kit, and a $400 compressor, so the airbrush part is not an issue for me at all.

warbike · Post by **warbike** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:41 am

lightning2000 wrote:Hi,
My money is on a Hades hot red version, with flames on the side, a shark mouth, spinner hubcaps, and maybe, just maybe, a towable latrine. But hey, I've been wrong before...

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 am

OK, now that I've read through the thread a little and seen the same board members espousing either common sense or common nonsense (you know who you are

) I've got this to say:

I share in the opinions of Aferg and Jesse James that it would be in 21c's best interest to release the 88 in a panzer gray scheme. It would go along with the vast majority of existing 21c German figures and vehicles, which are in the western/eastern front style of uniform and paintjobs. This just makes the most sense. 21c is obviously strapped for cash, so they now need to start making smart decisions about what paint schemes would be the most popular and go with it. Gray is the most common, well-known, and versatile paint job for the 88. DAK tan is far less common, well-known and versatile.

Now, knowing 21c's usual antics, the DAK scheme will most likely be released first. Further, it will probably be the only 88 we get for at least a couple years until either 21c gets their financial act together or they sell the mould to another company. The 88 will go to the small retailers first and it will cost alot. The gun should sell well in the short term (as all of us collectors that want an 88 will grab one). However, the 88s remaining after the initial sales will then rot because the DAK paint scheme is really too unique to be used with all other existing 21c German and Allied figures and vehicles, save the four DAK figures.

It is this sort of marketing mentality that 21c has repeated time and again and which has cost them in the long run. Look at the Avengers for a classic and expensive example. The "Atlantic" scheme and was a terrible choice for a first release and the droves of discounted planes at Wal Marts across the country evidence this... Most people, assuming they know what a TBF Avenger is, would associate it with the Pacific theater. Thus a tri-color scheme like the "Bunker Hill" plane would have made more sense for a first release and probably allowed the plane to sell better in the long run. 21c often seems to use the strategy of "release the least-popular scheme first so people will buy it and then release the more popular scheme in limited numbers sometime later on." This does work in the short run but not over the long run, especially for a small, financially-strapped toy company.

So, would 21c be able to sell a few 88mm guns in the DAK scheme? Yes, they would. Many collectors would get one, but 21c would only sell a relative few. For each VMF-115 and MG-42 that tactlessly get an 88 (or any other product) regardless of it color, there would be a collector that either hesitates or does not get one because the item does not fit with the rest of their collection. (I'm not even taking into consideration the sentiments of the general public...) 21c would loose sales in the long run because they manufacturered a bunch of 88s in a less-popular scheme and are then at a loss to make more in a popular color. In these troubled times, 21c must do what makes the most sense and will please the vast majority of its customer base in order to stay afloat.

That is my two cents worth, if you can follow it

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:51 am

The T-man has spoken, his word is finale and his judgment is wise…..what ever.

Yes I know there are a lot of hard to get at areas on the 88, but come on guys, since we can not influence what paint scheme 21st is going to do first, complaining about it will not change the situation.

Logic would dictate that you either buy it, and simply spend the time and money to paint it your self, instead of waiting for a panzer gray version from 21st. If you decide to wait till the gray one comes out you probably will wait a long time before the S-2 comes out. thats if 21st does not fold. In any case you will end up spending a great deal of money on Ebay just to do what you didn’t want to do in the first place. Take the time and paint the DAK one Panzer Gray. I would buy two just in case both DAK Versions that is. I am also sure that we could get some nice decals made for us, as well.

We can debate all we want about the choices that 21st makes but it will not change the fact that the first 88 will be a DAK…..either live with it, paint it or boycott it, one will help 21st the other could hurt it. But since we are a small majority on the forum, who are we to say what is popular DAK or the European theater.

In fact I have heard the opposite, that is DAK is popular among military collectors, and among British and American WWII veterans that fought against the desert fox. Are they the primary market group no but they do have a lot of say in the generations that have followed since then.

As I said I want a Panzer gray one but will be happy to paint it to get a Panzer gray one.

Post by **aferguson** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:21 pm

Don't be so sure our opinions won't influence 21c right now. If their situation is as precarious as i think it is, they may well be listening to what their fan base has to say....or at the very least reading it and mulling it over.

There have been some well made arguments on this board of late, on various issues, and the folks still left at 21c, that are runnning the show would be well advised to at least consider our views and opinions....rather than being arrogant enough to presume they know what we want more than we do.

Releasing the 88 in DAK colours first would be a big mistake.

It's not unprecedented for 21c to release an S2 paint scheme before an S1 paint scheme. Happens in the 32x line commonly. We know that the S2 paint scheme planned for the 88 was dark grey. So what's so tough about them releasing it first? Makes alot of sense business-wise.

hotrodrock · Post by **hotrodrock** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:13 pm

Doesn't make one iota of difference what color it is. At the price point that is being talked about, and the economy the way it is, the item is not going to sell enough to do 21st any good. The only people thats going to buy it are the hard core guys like us and there just aren't enough of us to do 21st any good if they are in fact in financial trouble of any kind. The casual shopper at WM or Target or any other big box retailer is not going to buy his kid that particular kind of toy at a $80-$90 price range. Not going to happen. A casual shopper might go $49.99 if their kid is laying on the floor having a fit. Not trying to change the thread from what its about but color will have nothing to do with the success of this item and its impact on 21st. Neither will the King Tiger if released. Unless, the profit on each item is huge considering the small number of these they will sell. I know 21st has had some dubious marketing stategies, but they surely cannot believe they will sell boatloads of the 88 even if they were to make that many and thus will not be tieing the making or breaking of their company on it or the KT.

As important as we might want 1/18 to be, 21st's future will depend more on their 1/32 and 1/72 line which is more cost friendly to the non-collector buyer at the big box stores. Lets face facts, a parent will grab a couple of 1/72 items to get their kid to shut up. If 21st ultimately cannot get a tie in with some big box store (some have said the Target deal is just a test run) they can still survive but it will be with fewer releases and at higher prices.

Post by **aferguson** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:05 pm

they're probably not going to be at wm or target or tru. That's why the price is so high.....because it's going to be a lower production run, which means a higher price tag. So the die hards like us are all that is needed to sell out the first production run, even at the higher price. Unless they do something dumb like make the first one a DAK scheme.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:22 pm

The only dumb thing 21st can do right now is not release the 88 in any scheme.

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:22 pm

I have $480 saved up for 2 88 & 2 KT, if 21st makes the 88 in dak scheme i'm going to mad i really don't feel like repainting them. For 21st to make the 88 in dak scheme is just dumb, i say make them in dark grey
then whoever wants the dak scheme they can repaint them selfs.

Plus i hope we here some news on the KT soon.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:39 pm

Apparently no body wants an 88 in DAK tan….What if it’s the only 88 we get????????

Post by **aferguson** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:43 pm

i think i've said in almost every post i've made that i want a DAK coloured 88. But i want a bunch of dark grey ones. AND FOR THE SAKE OF 21C'S SURVIVAL, IT WOULD BE MUCH BETTER FOR THEM TO RELEASE IT IN DARK GREY FIRST, THEN FOLLOW UP WITH A SMALLER RUN OF DAK ONES IN A FEW MONTHS. Not unlike what they did with the pak 40, dark grey, then 3 tone camo after.

And, many, many 88's used in north africa were painted dark grey for most of the campaign.

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:45 pm

VMF115 wrote:Apparently no body wants an 88 in DAK tan….What if it’s the only 88 we get????????

I'll get it, I still have space reserved for it, but it will also be the only one. Of course I'm assuming there will actually be even that one.

Post by **aferguson** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:46 pm

as for the KT....i hope they go ahead with it. I bet it will be there best selling 1/18 tank of all, in time, despite the higher price tag. It's got more sex appeal than the very popular Tiger I. They had a nice S1 paint scheme picked out for it; follow that up with an ambush scheme and it will be magic. It's a vehicle they could just keep reissuing over and over for many years to come and will always be popular. Plus there is a nice customizing possibility by making a Hunting Tiger out of it...pretty easy job to do, if you ignore the small hull stretch.

MG-42 · Post by **MG-42** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:59 pm

[+] > I don't care if it's in panty pink ,.. what you see is what your gonna get :

<center>
<img src="http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd20 ... k118-2.jpg" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"><br><br>
[+] 88 Flak in DAK scheme </center>

Mitch v MG

Small Scale Military Headquarters

88 gun still in the works?

88 Gun

Re: 88 Gun

[+] 88 News