Tiger I appraisal, s.v.p.

[immeww2]

The seller sent me a detailed PM of his options to the buyer to rectify the poor paint job on the tank and I think they were very fair.

[V2 MAN]

I also think the options were very fair. Plus ive seen many xd items in stores that have minor problems and some are worse. But for the age of that tiger i think that is one of the better looking ones. Anyway if it was me i would take the $20 and parts or the refund. Thats just my opinion though.

[King O' Fools]

He offered you a full refund if you return it. Then offered you $20 and you keep the tank right? I think I’m confused as to what you’re after.

I'm confused too.
I am the seller referred to in this thread, and I want to set the record straight on this deal. The Tiger in question was on of several 1:18 items I had on Ebay, and announced here that they were up. This is the picture that was on Ebay, and in fact is the only one I have of it.



Note that it does not have antennae, a figure, or an MG. King O’ Fools asked me to take this one plus others off Ebay and sell them to him directly. He made fair offers, including $60 for this Tiger. I accepted, and took the items off Ebay. I also offered him a new-in-the-box winter or tri-color Tiger for the same price instead, but he insisted on this gray one. I included the driver figure from another tank.

I can honestly say that the tank sat on my shelf for over a year, and I did not notice the glue streak or paint problems he refers to. They don’t show up in my pic or his, as far as I can see.

Nevertheless, I offered to refund his $60 on receipt of the tank, or $20 plus an antenna (I only have one) and an MG, mailed at my expense. If these offers are somehow unfair, I’d like to know what else I should do. I have made several deals with other forum members with no problems, and I have a perfect feedback score on Ebay (see seller gkutcher). I want to keep my good reputation intact.

Gary,

Sorry, but it's a tad disingenious of you to keep ignoring the issue.

If these offers are somehow unfair, I’d like to know what else I should do.

Perhaps, it would help if you stopped denying the obvious: "They [glue streak or paint problems] don’t show up in my pic or his, as far as I can see."

I can honestly say that the tank sat on my shelf for over a year, and I did not notice the glue streak or paint problems he refers to.

Really? Are you telling me you don't pay any attention either to the quality of the models you customize?

Note that it does not have antennae, a figure, or an MG.

Again, I specified that I would buy the loose Tiger I "provided all original accessories/figures are included."

I wasn't interested in the winter version because I own one already. I was after this version specifically.

Had I known the glue streak was there I wouldn't have offered you sixty dollars for this tank.

[SolidSnakeEyes]

Aside from the missing MG and antennae, that Tiger looks dead up, just like mine.
I'm boggled at the ferocious posting that has been stirred up due to this tank. The paint job looks -- to me -- like it's an unaltered factory job. The darker glossy areas around the markings are normal...at least, those are on my Tiger.
Now, I'm not even gonna touch the missing parts issue...that's a whole 'nother topic.
KOF, have you never owned one of these tanks, in this version? It seems you might just be under the impression that it's supposed to look different...or am I just totally missing something here?

[King O' Fools]

Gary, the Tiger in your photo looks better then mine that came MIB. You are a better man than I because I don't think I would have offered any relief on the sale. Buyer beware.
KOF, I think you are a little hypercritical of these toys. That Tiger is seven years old, made by Chinese labor and has been shipped 3/4 of the way around the world.

Sorry, Olifant, but your "Buyer Beware" is a very poor excuse to get money out of other board members' pockets.

Again, I specified that I would buy the loose Tiger I "provided ALL original accessories/figures are included."

Nevertheless, I offered to refund his $60 on receipt of the tank, or $20 plus an antenna (I only have one) and an MG, mailed at my expense.

Despite Gary's assertions that he'll even be so kind as to send me (at his own expense, no less) the missing accessories minus one antenna, that wasn't what I thought we had agreed on. (So even if he denies the paint problems are there, he still can't account for the missing accessories.)

I think it's only fair that he sends those to me. Not as a favor, but as part of the deal.

[King O' Fools]

Aside from the missing MG and antennae, that Tiger looks dead up, just like mine.
I'm boggled at the ferocious posting that has been stirred up due to this tank. The paint job looks -- to me -- like it's an unaltered factory job. The darker glossy areas around the markings are normal...at least, those are on my Tiger.
Now, I'm not even gonna touch the missing parts issue...that's a whole 'nother topic.
KOF, have you never owned one of these tanks, in this version? It seems you might just be under the impression that it's supposed to look different...or am I just totally missing something here?

You're right, I don't own any other Tiger in this particular paintscheme.

For all we know, it may well be "an unaltered factory job" and the problem with the markings may well be a common defect, just like the glue streak flaw might be pervasive in some 21st vehicles.

But again for $60 I expected a tank in perfect condition or, at least, a truthful admission (if not prior disclosure) by the seller that the flaw (read the glue streak) was there. Instead the seller is still denying it's even there. And that leads me to believe he knew it all along and wasn't upfront about it.

[VMF115]

KOF it appears you are in need of serious help, every one is out to take your money or sell you defective items. Quite trying to destroy the reputation of good board members and e-tailers/retailers if you don’t like the flaw’s don’t buy the stuff, this stuff is made in China not Switzerland.



Why don’t you buy this stuff and quite your belly aching
http://www.fineartmodels.com/pages/prod ... t_area=122

http://www.fineartmodels.com/pages/prod ... t_area=126

http://www.fineartmodels.com/pages/prod ... t_area=119

[King O' Fools]

KOF it appears you are in need of serious help, every one is out to take your money or sell you defective items. Quite trying to destroy the reputation of good board members and e-tailers/retailers if you don’t like the flaw’s don’t buy the dam stuff this stuff is made in China not Switzerland.
Why don’t you buy this stuff and quite your belly aching


http://www.fineartmodels.com/pages/prod ... t_area=122

http://www.fineartmodels.com/pages/prod ... t_area=126

http://www.fineartmodels.com/pages/prod ... t_area=119

Hmmm, thanks but no thanks. BTW, you sound exactly like Olifant did a few weeks back.

I'm not here to ruin anyone's reputation. I had a sour deal with another board member that didn't ship my merchandise after he promised to for the third time in as many weeks, and I'm only calling Gary out on the Tiger question (I like the rest of the items he sent me A LOT).

Please also note that I didn't reveal Gary's name. He "outed" himself and started sending PMs around. And your childish tantrum isn't helping matters much either.

Try to keep it civil instead of insisting I seek medical help, will you?

[VMF115]

The only one around here having a childish tantrum is you, you are the one who brought up this topic you are the one belly aching. You should have contacted Gary through PM or regular email and keep this between the two of you, but no you drug it out here, now face the music I doubt Gary tried to deceive you if he did made a mistake give him the opportunity to make it up to you, ("Which he is trying to do.") but I doubt he tried to cheat you on purpose.


Any future problems should be kept privet with the seller and buyer…if there is an problems then a mediator should be called in but that to should be privet. With in a reasonable period of time.

[Jesse James]

I will say, if you guys are airing private messages and things, that's often a suspension at other toy forums... Private's private for a reason and all. I think this should've all been handled privately in the first place though, I agree there...

I think bringing it up publicly was bound to draw the other party out too KOF... I'm speaking from a purely unbiased perspective here too. On boards I moderate, that would be considered "baiting" and you'd probably be in deep poodoo over it from the perspective of the staff.

Likewise, either party airing "private messages" in public would be in trouble though... Just not koscher.

I'll say again I think that the offers were fair... Putting aside the semantics of how the offer of the parts and $20 was made, I think that's pretty fair.

On the issue of quality that's totally up to you and if you're that hung up on it I think you should request a refund... However, I have 2 Panzer Grey Tiger's (plastic and "steel"), and both have "flaws" that are noticeable. I'm not happy either but I know I got one on sale so I can't gripe too much, and the other was $40 or whatever htey originally cost.

Again... from an unbiased perspective completely as I know neither of you, I think you should take one of the two options offered. Also I think all this should've stayed 100% private as it's led clearly to a bad situation publicly for both of you... A refund covers you if you don't dig the item, and the parts + $20 covers you if you can look past the "flaw" (I maintain though, that all those tanks seemed to have a flaw here and there, so you won't likely find "mint").

Take my advice as you will... You guys both seem normal to me and should be able to hash this out in a way you're both happy I think.

[King O' Fools]

The only one around here having a childish tantrum is you, you are the one who brought up this topic you are the one belly aching. You should have contacted Gary through PM or regular email and keep this between the two of you, but no you drug it out here, now face the music I doubt Gary tried to deceive you if he did made a mistake give him the opportunity to make it up to you, ("Which he is trying to do.") but I doubt he tried to cheat you on purpose.

Any future problems should be kept privet with the seller and buyer…if there is an problems then a mediator should be called in but that to should be privet. With in a reasonable period of time.

Ok, I'll try to make myself clear: I did contact Gary through email as soon as I got the items. Then, he offered me the $20 refund for the Tiger (plus the missing parts, which I consider a given, since they were supposed to have been included with the tank in the first place).

I brought up this topic here because I wasn't sure how much this tank was worth. I still don't think it's worth more than $20, regardless of what Gary says. (He insists the glue streak is NOT there, BTW.)

So, instead of imparting your "wisdom" on the whole membership, would you mind letting us know how much you'd pay for this tank, if you're so kind?

Would you pay $40 for a loose Tiger with glue on the hull? Or are you going to tell me that you can't see the glue streak either?

PS: Oh, and as far as keeping these issues private... That's the fastest way to being scammed, wouldn't you agree?

[VMF115]

AS for keeping privet you would need to have a mediator who is fair and discreet not some one who will take sides, as for how much I would pay, 60 dollars for one.

[King O' Fools]

I will say, if you guys are airing private messages and things, that's often a suspension at other toy forums... Private's private for a reason and all. I think this should've all been handled privately in the first place though, I agree there...

I think bringing it up publicly was bound to draw the other party out too KOF... I'm speaking from a purely unbiased perspective here too. On boards I moderate, that would be considered "baiting" and you'd probably be in deep poodoo over it from the perspective of the staff.

Likewise, either party airing "private messages" in public would be in trouble though... Just not koscher.

I'll say again I think that the offers were fair... Putting aside the semantics of how the offer of the parts and $20 was made, I think that's pretty fair.

On the issue of quality that's totally up to you and if you're that hung up on it I think you should request a refund... However, I have 2 Panzer Grey Tiger's (plastic and "steel"), and both have "flaws" that are noticeable. I'm not happy either but I know I got one on sale so I can't gripe too much, and the other was $40 or whatever htey originally cost.

Again... from an unbiased perspective completely as I know neither of you, I think you should take one of the two options offered. Also I think all this should've stayed 100% private as it's led clearly to a bad situation publicly for both of you... A refund covers you if you don't dig the item, and the parts + $20 covers you if you can look past the "flaw" (I maintain though, that all those tanks seemed to have a flaw here and there, so you won't likely find "mint").

Take my advice as you will... You guys both seem normal to me and should be able to hash this out in a way you're both happy I think.

Point taken. If I posted this thread was precisely because I was unsure of what the value of this item might be in the condition it's in. It was never my intention to disclose Gary's name or handle, I just wanted to have some additional input. And, yes, someone that might actually confirm the freakin' glue streak is there, whether you agree or not with my premise that a loose 1:18 sixty dollar tank should have ZERO paint defects whatsoever (or the seller should at least disclose those defects to you before you conduct the transaction).

[King O' Fools]

AS for keeping privet you would need to have a mediator who is fair and discreet not some one who will take sides, as for how much I would pay, 60 dollars for one.

Ok, then you may be interested in a bridge in Brooklyn that I have for sale...

BTW, do you see the glue streak?

[MG-42]

* Oh behave ! ! ! *

<center> I like both you guys so I'm not going to get in the middle of this ,.. perhaps "aferg" could throw his 2-¢ents in , if any , then.
</center>

.......... I do think that everybody does have a right to say how they feel , but the bickering between members should be kept to a - minimum - , however.


Mitch v MG

[digger]

PS: Oh, and as far as keeping these issues private... That's the fastest way to being scammed, wouldn't you agree?

Nobody is scamming you. I think this thread should have been in the BST section, if created at all. You did not just ask what we thought the Tiger was worth, you gave a big story to go with it. In any case, I think this topic has run its course.

[King O' Fools]

PS: Oh, and as far as keeping these issues private... That's the fastest way to being scammed, wouldn't you agree?

Nobody is scamming you. I think this thread should have been in the BST section, if created at all. You did not just ask what we thought the Tiger was worth, you gave a big story to go with it. In any case, I think this topic has run its course.

That was a general remark, mind you; but my point still stands, nevertheless: if you can't bring contentious deals to the attention of the members, then you run the risk of giving the Jerry Napiers of this world a head start in the game. (And, no, I'm not comparing anyone to that guy.)

I posted this topic here before the "big story" broke out, because I wanted some feedback on what that tank might be worth. Not because I wanted any of you guys mediating between Gary and me, but because I had the feeling it wasn't worth more than $20.

BTW, do you see that glue streak on the pictures?

[ostketten]

BTW, do you see that glue streak on the pictures?

Yes, and it appears to be very minor in my opinion. Realistically, I doubt this would take most people more than about 10 minutes to correct... this is about as easy a "fix" as they come, and your other issues aside, I just don't see what all the fuss is about on this glue spot.

[MG-42]

* Oh behave ! ! ! *

<center> I like both you guys so I'm not going to get in the middle of this ,.. perhaps "aferg" could throw his 2-¢ents in , if any , then.
</center>

.......... I do think that everybody does have a right to say how they feel , but the bickering between members should be kept to a - minimum - , however.


Mitch v MG

[King O' Fools]

BTW, do you see that glue streak on the pictures?

Yes, and it appears to be very minor in my opinion. Realistically, I doubt this would take most people more than about 10 minutes to correct... this is about as easy a "fix" as they come, and your other issues aside, I just don't see what all the fuss is about on this glue spot.

Ok, so how do I fix it in ten minutes, short of having the whole tank repainted (which I intend to do, though hardly in ten minutes)?

I don't think I can find an exact match for that paint. My Humbrol enamel (Matt 67) is a little darker than the Tiger, and with Tamiya acrylics I run the same risk.

PS: The fuss is about Gary not acknowledging the very existence of that glue spot.

[MG-42]

* KO'Fs :

<center> I have used this particular paint ( Humbrol # 67 ) on my Grey Tiger and it worked perfectly. It was the only paint that was an exact match IMO.

* It's as close as your gonna get. Tamiya's mix is different , it's lighter I think ,.. I can't quite remember ,.. but at any rate , you can't go wrong w/ Humbrol , I STAND BY THIS PAINT.

* I know , I still have this paint in their original tins I bought as kid in the early to mid 70's ,.. and it's still , ALL GOOD ! ! ! * </center>


Mitch v MG

[AlloySkull]

I have planes that are worse than that. I have broken parts but I make them myself. You adapt and overcome. I don't have a problem with anyone here, but this is old. So many 21st items have problems it's not funny. I either fix it or learn to deal with it. If you learn to weather your items, well, then any flaw or defect in paint can be fixed.

I could understand if there was something not from the factory, but loose is loose. The missing antenna were not in the picture, and therefore should have been noted. Again, KOF, I'm not trying to bash you, I think you have a good reason to be upset, as it's not easy to obtain 21st items where you live, and just like us, you get a good amount a flaws. But you also got really nice ones from Gary, did you not? You realize that he was able to hand-pick that Tiger from a shelf once, and maybe it was the best one in his area.

So I'm not saying it's your fault, I'm just saying go easy, take a breather, it's fixable, and I know how it is when you pay money for something loose and it's not perfect, we all do. But we deal with the fact that it's loose, and he did have a picture. and we either take it as is, or work on it. You, have the rare oppurtunity for a refund, or the missing parts.

I'm sorry but to me that Tiger is worth $60, easy. She's beautiful. Especially since I can make better antenna, and I have spare MGs from figs.

Hell, I'd be glad that it made it to my door in one piece! half-way across the world! C'mon KOF, have a light heart man. Not everything is a crisis, and forgiveness is the key to happiness...

[SolidSnakeEyes]

I have planes that are worse than that. I have broken parts but I make them myself. You adapt and overcome. I don't have a problem with anyone here, but this is old. So many 21st items have problems it's not funny. I either fix it or learn to deal with it. If you learn to weather your items, well, then any flaw or defect in paint can be fixed.

I could understand if there was something not from the factory, but loose is loose. The missing antenna were not in the picture, and therefore should have been noted. Again, KOF, I'm not trying to bash you, I think you have a good reason to be upset, as it's not easy to obtain 21st items where you live, and just like us, you get a good amount a flaws. But you also got really nice ones from Gary, did you not? You realize that he was able to hand-pick that Tiger from a shelf once, and maybe it was the best one in his area.

So I'm not saying it's your fault, I'm just saying go easy, take a breather, it's fixable, and I know how it is when you pay money for something loose and it's not perfect, we all do. But we deal with the fact that it's loose, and he did have a picture. and we either take it as is, or work on it. You, have the rare oppurtunity for a refund, or the missing parts.

I'm sorry but to me that Tiger is worth $60, easy. She's beautiful. Especially since I can make better antenna, and I have spare MGs from figs.

Hell, I'd be glad that it made it to my door in one piece! half-way across the world! C'mon KOF, have a light heart man. Not everything is a crisis, and forgiveness is the key to happiness...

Well said, AlloyGandhi.

[MG-42]

* Ok ,.. I will say this and I might be going out on limb here , however.

<center>
KO'Fs has every right to complain , especially if the items or merchandise comes from another fellow board member , also for the fact that KO'Fs lives half way round the world. ... I would expect a decent model and some courtesy myself , would'nt you ?

......... (BUT) , if your dealing w/ some on-line e-tailer ,.. then you're taking your chances w/ it like anybody else ,....... Luck of The Draw ! </center>


Mitch v MG

[parrish333]

KOF: Yes, anyone can see the discoloration/glue spot in the picture that Gary posted on eBay. Same for the missing antenna and MG. If Gary overlooked them, you at least had your chance to study the pic and find the same. That's your chance to study the item for problems, just like others here do our best to see any problems through the plastic window of the box at WM or TRU. Sometimes you miss something, and sometimes you just can't see the problem. In this case, most of the issues that are driving you nuts are in plain sight from the provided pic.

Did you write Gary an e-mail saying "Hey, what's that discoloration on the front, where's the antenna, and where's the MG? They seem to be missing..."? If so, and he said, "Those are all there/fixed" then I'd say you have a legit gripe.

And as for is it worth $60? I dunno - I'm sure you could tell us. When you were scouring e-bay for flawless S1 grey tigers, did you find any in better condition for the same $ or less? Obviously not or we wouldn't be having this discussion. B/c as everybody here has said, by your standards there are no flawless S1 grey tigers. Pretty much all of these models in the ~$100 range are going to have what you consider a flaw.

As previously mentioned, if that's not acceptable, then there are premium models you can buy where somebody is handcrafting it specially just for you and your concerns.