Bad Cat has Panther up for pre-order....

[lightning2000]

Hi,
The same would hold true for whatever we sell, including the BBI Dauntless. You can have one at the pre-order price, providing you're willing to come out to northeastern Queens, where we're based. If you dont have a car, its quite a ways from Manhattan. I believe the Dauntless is still on track for a May release.

Trying to convince your wife to wear that, huh? I have trouble trying to keep my wife awake past 10PM!

BTW, we'll be closed for vacation from May 29th - June 10th. So, it would have to be after that date, provided the plane was in stock.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

[ostketten]

Now factor in the higher prices of oil to make the product, its packaging and transit, and the cost of each unit goes up again.

Good points. It's difficult for me to understand why some people can't seem to grasp the implications of simple economics, this really has nothing at all to do with 21st Century "price gouging" or trying to fleece collectors. The truckers just finished protesting here in DC about $4.50 a gallon diesel fuel, and guess what...?? most everything we consume is shipped across the country by train or truck, and they burn...you guessed it..diesel!! Everything from toilet paper to cereal is going to get more expensive to buy, so why is it so hard to understand that the same principles apply to a plastic model tank

[CW4USARMY]

Hi CW4USARMY,
Strange as it may sound, that is a good price based upon the dealer cost plus shipping. The days of the $40 1:18 scale vehicle may be fast coming to an end if there arent any large mass merchants around ready to offset much of the production costs. Lets face it, there are no etailers the size and scale of a Walmart or TRU.

I'll give you a for instance. According to Wikipedia, Walmart operates some 971 discount stores in North America. Now lets say, for arguments sake, each store took four cases of the upcoming Panther tank, a total of 8 pieces. Distribution to Walmart alone therefore would come to 7,768 pieces. That goes a long way towards driving down production costs so that a 1:18 scale vehicle could sell for $40 or so. Take them out of the equation and maybe you can sell a couple thousand to the rest of the retail network willing to carry an item of this size and nature, and you readily see that the costs creep up big time.

Now factor in the higher prices of oil to make the product, its packaging and transit, and the cost of each unit goes up again.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

It is easy and doesnt require a whole lot of thought to bash "big oil". But,
If this was the reason for inflated prices of XD, then the same would hold true for all plastic toys and I dont see 100% price jumps of any other plastic plane, tank, spaceship or whatever toy and collectible.

But, back to your point about Economies of Scale by selling at brick and mortar stores like Walmart, I agree with you in theory, but in this particular case of the XD Panther, lets run it down: An old mold so no expense to recoup there, so its plastic cost and new paint. The new Me-262 Nightfighter is an all new mold, a lot more plastic and a lot more weight than the Panther, and comes with two figures. More plastic, new tooling to recoup the cost on, additional figures, bigger box and box art, yet retails for the same as the repaint Panther? They are both only sold at etailers as well and they are released within months of each other. and they are both selling for 69.99? (only because we made a fuss that is).

(BTW, we can hardly call this new price of 69.99 a price "creep up" )

Now the King Tiger would make more sense seeing how it is a new mold, but I just cant drink the XD Kool-aid on this particular Panther mark-up.

[CW4USARMY]

Now factor in the higher prices of oil to make the product, its packaging and transit, and the cost of each unit goes up again.

Good points. It's difficult for me to understand why some people can't seem to grasp the implications of simple economics, this really has nothing at all to do with 21st Century "price gouging" or trying to fleece collectors. The truckers just finished protesting here in DC about $4.50 a gallon diesel fuel, and guess what...?? most everything we consume is shipped across the country by train or truck, and they burn...you guessed it..diesel!! Everything from toilet paper to cereal is going to get more expensive to buy, so why is it so hard to understand that the same principles apply to a plastic model tank

It's not difficult to understand over-inflated pricing. If 100% price increases happened to all the 1:18 companies, then obviously it is the oil based economy. Can you name any other toy company of any scale that has changed their price to double within the last year? such as this 39.99 to 79.99 (ok, 69.99 since we forced their hand) Again, the simple economics of it all is that if the increase of oil had this much of an impact on a toy airplane and tank company, then we'd be seeing it across the board. Unless of course BBi, FOV and Hasbro have a secret Oil and plastic stash somewhere that is keeping their prices down.

[olifant]

I think Lightning said it best: The days of $40 XD are over.

Luckily, the days of bitching about it are endless!

[normandy]

Well there's always FOV 1:18th armor, yes lacking in detail somewhat but maybe by Fall we'll see some new Tiger I's.

[[CAT]CplSlade]

You can have one at the pre-order price, providing you're willing to come out to northeastern Queens, where we're based. If you dont have a car, its quite a ways from Manhattan. I believe the Dauntless is still on track for a May release.

We have a friend who lives out near East Hills. Are you further than that? I will have a car, as it happens, so all in all it should be no problem. We'll still be in town after June 10, also.

[CW4USARMY]

I think Lightning said it best: The days of $40 XD are over.

Luckily, the days of bitching about it are endless!

Actually more like the days of XD are over. If only a few die hards on these boards are willing to pay this price, then its just a matter of time.
Sure glad we have other lines and players now

[King O' Fools]

Now factor in the higher prices of oil to make the product, its packaging and transit, and the cost of each unit goes up again.

Good points. It's difficult for me to understand why some people can't seem to grasp the implications of simple economics, this really has nothing at all to do with 21st Century "price gouging" or trying to fleece collectors. The truckers just finished protesting here in DC about $4.50 a gallon diesel fuel, and guess what...?? most everything we consume is shipped across the country by train or truck, and they burn...you guessed it..diesel!! Everything from toilet paper to cereal is going to get more expensive to buy, so why is it so hard to understand that the same principles apply to a plastic model tank

The crux of the matter is not so much an increase in oil prices as poor business decisions on the part of 21st (like including only one tanker figure with the "new" Panther):

Take them [WM] out of the equation and maybe you can sell a couple thousand to the rest of the retail network willing to carry an item of this size and nature, and you readily see that the costs creep up big time.

In other words, 21st wants their customer base to make up for their loss of business/lack of a sound business strategy, and it looks like it's going to backfire on them big time, if comments on this board are anything to go by.

[smittyrob64]

Yup, I'm out, going 1/16.
$80 I can get an RC Tiger, PzIII, or PzIV. Way better deal

[Jesse James]

Technically saying, "Oil goes up so the price of everything automatically goes up", isn't "simple economics". That's simplified economics. True economics shows how the cost of oil rising impacts short-term products like food prices rising... Not a toy that hasn't hit shelves from a company that hasn't put the same types of toys (large vehicles) on shelves for... what is it now? A year anyway?

I'd love a late-war panther honestly but the price is just too high. I love 21st's Panther too and am glad I at least have one. I can't honestly blame a single person here for NOT wanting it at that price, and voting with their wallets by not buying. You want them to put prices back down or work harder to find a mass-retail partner so the price drops? Don't buy it. That's the best argument anyone can make.

I'm not buying it, I'm not buying an 88 either... I'll debate buying a KT come time, but honestly if money's tight enough I probably will skip it out of principle as well. I mean, a $100 2 foot long SW vehicle is coming out... It makes the KT look tiny by comparison. That's more than enough convincing to me that my money's better spent elsewhere.

I'm now a figure guy... Hopefully more stuff ships to TRU for better prices and I can buy there. Then I can get back to ground vehicles as well. I'd gladly go 1:16 I think if they made more than just tanks... halftracks, jeeps, Kubels, cycles, etc. Those are things I've hoped for (and not gotten many of) in 1:18 so far. Well, besides the halftracks anyway.

[smittyrob64]

Andrew Design makes 1/16 items other than tanks.

http://xion-shop.de/english/new-product ... fault.aspx

or check out the previous Andrew Design post

[Jesse James]

As much as I wish I could, the cost on some of those is really expensive. I was talking more about the Henlong tanks and things, which probably are more toyish by comparison (yet 10x superior to XD tanks somehow in most respects it seems). I wish I had the money for a high-end hobby like those 1:16 vehicles and items. Amazing detail on that stuff.

If I look at them too much I won't want to buy the Indy truck and German car I think.

[GooglyDoogly]

I really think 21st is just testing the water to see consumers would tolerate such a high price increase.

Then if sales proves that people would buy these stuff no matter what the price, then how much you wanna bet that you'll see a 1/18 WWII fighter plane for $100 and up as well?

[lightning2000]

Hi Cpl,
East Hills is further east than our location. I would suggest reviewing the directions found on our Contact Us page to see where we are in relation to where you need to go. We're right off the Grand Central Parkway/ Northern State Parkway. Just call us ahead of time to firm up the meet and confirm we have it in stock.

Regards,

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

[ostketten]

The days of $40 XD are over.

Luckily, the days of bitching about it are endless!

LOLL


Oil is just part of the equation, there are many factors that influence the end cost of an item, whether it be a toy or whatever. We're seeing higher higher prices for everything we consume these days, that's the reality of it, and model collectors aren't immune from any of the factors that influence costs, in fact it probably affects us more because military model collecting is a niche market with limited sales potential as compared to something like toilet paper which pretty much everybody buys regularly. Basically, you have two choices with the Panther... buy or don't buy...pretty simple.

[[CAT]CplSlade]

Hi Cpl,
East Hills is further east than our location. I would suggest reviewing the directions found on our Contact Us page to see where we are in relation to where you need to go. We're right off the Grand Central Parkway/ Northern State Parkway. Just call us ahead of time to firm up the meet and confirm we have it in stock.

Regards,

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

Will do. Hope to see you in June.

[toyktdlgh]

I think the price jump is a double edged sword. We can say the price of production and rising gas prices have raised the prices have caused the higher prices but we as consumers and citizens are paying out hundreds maybe even thousands of extra dollars every year now just to fill our gas tanks to get to work. While collecting XD is a fun way to make life more enjoyable I think more and more collectors are finding that they done have as much to spend as they once did and now with the price jump many are thinking its time to move on to something a bit less expensive. I will say I am very disappointed in 21st Century Toys. Partially due to the price hike but mostly due to there inability to deliver the products that they outright promised and announced ahead of time. They even slammed the door on another companies attempt to produce something by saying they would produce the mythical plane cheaper. 21C I hope you get your heads out of your rears and do what you promised or you will be loosing more and more loyal customers like me. This isn’t a rant, just my personal view on the topic. I would have bought that panther at a more reasonable price but now I won’t even consider it.

[STUKA]

Yeah that quick drop - has me thinking this was Badcats company blunder. The problem is everyone is probably trying to make up shipping costs and shipping in general.
They could probably sell it at $49.99 and still make a profit -


but i dont buy from badcat unless it is on clearance.

[King O' Fools]

model collecting is a niche market with limited sales potential

You bet. Especially when you screw up your distribution chain big time by losing the WM account like someone just did.

The question is: does BBI or AT sell toilet paper these days? IIRC this has something to do with sauce, a goose and a gander.

[DropTank]

I will say I am very disappointed in 21st Century Toys. Partially due to the price hike but mostly due to there inability to deliver the products that they outright promised and announced ahead of time. They even slammed the door on another companies attempt to produce something by saying they would produce the mythical plane cheaper.

Well said toyktdlgh......Of course the price hike has not affected me yet because I locked in on the $89.00 price 21st quoted...

OOPS, gotta go guys. UPS just went by and I'm sure today is the day that I get the first of the 5 planned paint scheme Phantom's. Yea Right !!

When 21st announced "that the tide was turning", I did not at the time realize that it was in fact another way of saying their reputation was about to go down the toilet . I am quickly getting to the point that 21st can keep all of their releases regardless of the price. JMO

[GooglyDoogly]

Well said toyktdlgh......Of course the price hike has not affected me yet because I locked in on the $89.00 price 21st quoted...

*cough*

Actually, it's $89.99.

But still, that's an unheard of price! It's so unheard of, 21st can't even remember saying that.

[dragon53]

In addition to Wal-Mart and 21st Century 1/18, Flyingmule dropped 21st Century, too.

[DropTank]

*cough*

Yes, me too Googly as I was typing.