BBI 1:18 Zero video review on YouTube

[RossVegas]

Anybody else see this one?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FU8WsSRIYEY
BTW, I learned about SmaleScaleHQ from a post on the F-104 YouTube review! Anyway, do you guys have the same problems with the Zero that they show? I thought of getting one and painting it in the light gray.

[VMF115]

That would be me.

[RossVegas]

You mean that you are someone with similar problems with the Zero or that you posted that video? Nice production.

[tmanthegreat]

Nice video, and I love the musical accompaniment (Gustav Holst's Mars: Bringer of War). We really need to see more video reviews like this as they bring greater awarness to the sheer coolness of the planes we collect

[aferguson]

good review....made me chuckle though.

[STUKA]

good stuff -

[olifant]

Very nice VMF! I got a kick out of those. I loved the audible spring "Twang" on the F-104 review! It would be nice if we could add them to the database somehow.

[RossVegas]

I wrote the address at the beginning of the video and this is the reply that I will share if anyone's interested:

Thank you for writing. We too are quite pleased with the entertainment value of our toy reviews as well as their straight forward information. No, none of us are affiliated with Small Scale Military Headquarters, but we will certainly check their site out. Sounds like some fun reading. We had our reviews posted to YouTube as The Art of Warbirds site is going to be moderately touched up, but didn't want to wait until then to show these. The site owner has a few of these scale planes in his home and found that they were unlike any other product you would buy, that is, they are all broken in some way when they are new off the shelf! Looking around on the web he found very few reviews and those were all from retailers selling these toys- hardly unbiased opinions! So, his and my love of industrial films and documentaries lead us to team up and write these. We are proud to tell it like it is as we did not receive these for free as he actually bought them just like you do. I believe we are the only company that reviews them that does not sell them as we are mainly in the graphic field (but please check out our insignia shirts!). So, in the future, I hope you trust the opinions expressed in The Art of Warbirds reviews. There are more just waiting to be posted and if I get my butt in gear and follow author and photographer Dan's sketches of how to lay out the new pages you will see them at our site too. (In my defense, we do more than the airplane thing and spun that bit off of his main company to stand on its own.) The next one is quite damning for its shoddy construction. I'll let you try and guess what plane it is!!! And if you don't agree- hey, I didn't write it. I'm just the web master. I don't know nothin' about no planes.
Thanks again and really, it wouldn't kill ya to buy a shirt. JK!!!
Best wishes,
Ryan

So, any guesses as to what the next review will feature? I am new to this, so you guys tell me what could the "shoddy" plane be? I think I'll wait to buy more until I see the review!
However, I might get a shirt from there. The U.S. Navy one is kewl. Check it:
http://theartofwarbirds.com/tees.html

[RossVegas]

And I wrote them before the above got posted, so I didn't ask about if they could let the videos be added to this database, so don't bother pointing that out to me!

[King O' Fools]

The site owner has a few of these scale planes in his home and found that <i>they were unlike any other product you would buy, that is, they are <b>all broken in some way when they are new off the shelf!</b></i>

Case in point: Got a halftrack yesterday and was "putting it together" when I just realised that the markings on the front bumper were wrong (i.e. upside down and actually reversed).

So I thought "ok, this must be one of those *rare*, *unusual* production flaws that even 21st Century Toys is entitled to every once in a while..." And went about the business of finishing the assembly process, but since the included instructions weren't too clear I decided to check some of the details online.

And, bien sûre, there it was in all its amazing glory—a promotional picture of the <a href="http://smalljoes.com/images_21century/1 ... .jpg">darn halftrack with the wrong markings on the front bumper</a>.

I can't believe 21st hasn't spotted this glaring error. I just can't believe this could go unnoticed by anyone (even an amateur modeler with five minutes experience building US halftracks) in charge of their QC process. Their work can't be this shoddy. It's the same BS time and time again.

Xtreme Detail my @$%!

[jeffrowse]

So I thought "ok, this must be one of those *rare*, *unusual* production flaws that even 21st Century Toys is entitled to every once in a while..." And went about the business of finishing the assembly process, but since the included instructions weren't too clear I decided to check some of the details online.

And, bien sûre, there it was in all its amazing glory—a promotional picture of the <a href="http://smalljoes.com/images_21century/1 ... .jpg">darn halftrack with the wrong markings on the front bumper</a>.

I can't believe 21st hasn't spotted this glaring error. I just can't believe this could go unnoticed by anyone (even an amateur modeler with five minutes experience building US halftracks) in charge of their QC process. Their work can't be this shoddy. It's the same BS time and time again.

Xtreme Detail my @$%!

You must've missed the thread where it was explained that they put some of the "errors" in deliberately - something to do with their weird (to us )superstions means it's bad luck to make the models too accurate.

Anyway, don't forget it's 21st Century Toys, not 21st Century Accurate Scale Models. These TOYS (there, I've said it - let the Flame War begin... in the Flames Forum though, please?) are meant for young kids to play with, not just for us older kids (I'm in my late thirties ) to collect. If you care enough to correct their "mistakes", good for you - most people would not even notice them in the first place (I wouldn't have spotted the reversed & inverted halftrack stickers). Of course, they could have spotted the mistake with the stickers after production started, in which case they would have had to scrap however many sets had been made and redo all the masters - which probably would not be just a few cents-worth of work.
Either way, stickers back-to-front and base-over-apex is hardly a major issue when compared to bits missing or falling off as soon as you take the (toy/model - delete as appropriate) out of the box...

It's a pain in the ass getting these things over here in England (not that I can afford to at the moment), so please excuse me but I get a bit miffed when people post comments like "I got this airplane for 15 bucks and there's a small gap in the wing and the stickers are wrong" - that same 'plane would probably cost me nearly ten times as much if I could even get it at all.
(Please don't take this personally, it's not meant as an attack on you but a response to your comment about their quality control).

Besides, if they did make their models completely accurate, what would people like Mig29, Popeye357 and VMF do all year?

(ps if anyone wants to send me - free of charge - any 1/18th kit they no longer want/need/have room for, just let me know )

[King O' Fools]

You must've missed the thread where it was explained that they put some of the "errors" in deliberately - something to do with their weird (to us )superstions means it's bad luck to make the models too accurate.

Anyway, don't forget it's 21st Century Toys, not 21st Century Accurate Scale Models. These TOYS (there, I've said it - let the Flame War begin... in the Flames Forum though, please?) are meant for young kids to play with, not just for us older kids (I'm in my late thirties ) to collect. If you care enough to correct their "mistakes", good for you - most people would not even notice them in the first place (I wouldn't have spotted the reversed & inverted halftrack stickers). Of course, they could have spotted the mistake with the stickers after production started, in which case they would have had to scrap however many sets had been made and redo all the masters - which probably would not be just a few cents-worth of work.
Either way, stickers back-to-front and base-over-apex is hardly a major issue when compared to bits missing or falling off as soon as you take the (toy/model - delete as appropriate) out of the box...

It's a pain in the ass getting these things over here in England (not that I can afford to at the moment), so please excuse me but I get a bit miffed when people post comments like "I got this airplane for 15 bucks and there's a small gap in the wing and the stickers are wrong" - that same 'plane would probably cost me nearly ten times as much if I could even get it at all.
(Please don't take this personally, it's not meant as an attack on you but a response to your comment about their quality control).

Besides, if they did make their models completely accurate, what would people like Mig29, Popeye357 and VMF do all year?

(ps if anyone wants to send me - free of charge - any 1/18th kit they no longer want/need/have room for, just let me know )

See, that's the problem. I don't live in the US, I live in Southern Spain. So the price I pay for these models is nowhere near fifteen bucks. It's more like well over fifty euros each. And, <i>for that price</i>, I expect the chinese guys at 21c's sweatshop to get it right every time and their San Leandro masters to see to it that they do get it right every time, as well.

I'm fed up with this "they produce toys, not museum quality models" meme that the 21st Fan Club out there cries in unison every time this topic is brought up. I don't expect to own a museum piece anytime soon. However, I do expect to READ the letters on the bumper ok.

No, it's not a minor issue (unless you can't read, in which case, yeah you probably don't give a rat's @$$ about it). I'm flabbergasted that this rationale would be used (again) to excuse a widespread production flaw, let alone botching a whole production run like that. But, hey, I'm not a member of the 21c Skull and Bones chapter of this board.

And unless you want little children to learn to read swaying their heads like owls, I strongly recommend that these "toys" be kept away from them.

Seriously, this "they're toys, stupid" rationale rings a little bit hollow when we have board members bitching about the name of a plane (see the Galland vs Stigler controversy regarding AT's next Me-262).

So, you're basically saying that it’s wrong to complain about the markings on your halftrack (b/c it's the manufacturer's fault), but it’s ok to bitch and moan about the historical (in)accuracy, for instance, of the ‘Marine’s Dream’ (b/c it's the manufacturer's fault)?

Sorry, but these two widely differing attitudes don’t add up. You can’t use the “toy” blanket excuse and then get all riled up b/c AT made the unforgivable offense of ascribing their next model to the wrong pilot.

What’s good for 21c… Unless, of course, you have some stake in the company.

Since I pay dear for them toys, I kinda hope they go through some QC process, which apparently they don’t… Precisely for the same reason you stated above: it’s easier for 21st to crank out toys like there's no tomorrow than to address the quality issues—and, hey, it makes sense if you buy these things in a WM, but not so much if you live in England or Spain (or a cabin in the woods).

And last but not least, there's this: "they could have spotted the mistake with the stickers after production started, in which case they would have had to scrap however many sets had been made and redo all the masters - which probably would not be just a few cents-worth of work."

Well, nice try but no cigar! They did get it right in earlier series of the same model. It's just that their work gets shoddier with every new paint job. And anyway it's their friggin' fault, if they can't manufacture toys with a modicum of accuracy they're not entitled to any "Xtreme Detail" claim, are they?

[RossVegas]

Wow. Maybe I won't start collecting. I asked on a post on the F-104 review on Youtube if the tails were bent on them like the model in the video that they pointed out and someone else posted his tail was fine, but had other broken plastic parts. If they are toys instead of models that argument makes no sense either. I buy my nieces and nephews lots of toys from all different companies and they don't come out of the box prebroken and what manufacturer would expect and excuse like, "well, you have to expect that," to go over at all?
I should also ask you guys if the Zero's wheels don't all retract on yours like in this video. With two deadly honest reviews in a row from these guys and a promised third that somehow negative it can't be a coincidence that they got three random faulty planes.
I guess we know "King o' Fools" is betting the next review is one of 21st Century's planes.

[tmanthegreat]

OK, OK. Lets calm down here.

I have little sympathy for you, KOF, whether you live in Southern Spain, Wyoming, Antarctica, or where ever it is difficult to get XD products. Just because you live somewhere far off doesn't mean that 21c has to cater exactly to your specific needs. They are a big company, you, myself, and the rest of us, are small collectors. While we collectively carry a certain level of influence with 21c, in reality we are only a small part of their market and ultimately the leadership at 21c doesn't give a crap about every little thing we think. Besides, upside-down letters are a small price to pay. You could have more glaring paintflaws, cracked and broken parts, etc. as the norm instead.

We all deal with the same QC defects on 21c products that you have. I recently paid $80 for a 21c ME-262A (a hefty sum for what is technically a toy) only to have the landing gear break after it had been retracted only three times. That pissed me off, especially as I can't just drive to the nearest Wal Mart and return the broken plane because the ME-262 is not sold at mass retail. Living with the defects is a part of this hobby. We all complain about it and 21c really does not do much about the problem. Perhaps they will get better in the future with their QC issues, perhaps not. It is their loss. End of story.

I agree with Jeffrowse that these are ultimately toys. That is exactly what 21st Century Toys was marketing them as when they began the XD line back in 2000. The only downside (for 21c) is that the line developed a devoted following of very adamant - and in many cases overly anal - collectors who wanted more detail, better quality, etc. etc. What often happens with any toy is that the more detailed it becomes, the greater the chances for defects.

So, in the end, I am sorry you have to pay so much for these toys, but you must accept that as a fact of life given where you live. There are a number of other international board members and except for you, all of them do not complain about the extra costs entailed with this hobby. Further, as we collectors constantly demand greater detail, etc. we must also realize that such measures complicate the production process and make room for the small defects to occur. If you want toys that cost less, go with the FOV Bravo Team vehicles. However, beware as they are fare less detailed than their 21c counterparts. In the end, we must simply suck it up that such QC problems are going to occur with any large-scale production of a complicated toy and move on.

[King O' Fools]

That’s the thing, Tman. I’m not begging for your sympathy and I honestly don’t care a hoot about your straw man arguments: “Just because you live somewhere far off doesn't mean that 21c has to cater exactly to <I>your</I> specific needs.”

Oh, c’mon. Be serious. 21c doesn’t have to cater exactly to my specific needs. <b>They need to do their homework. Plain and simple.</b> I wouldn’t be complaining about the cost of their “toys” in my neck of the woods if it weren’t for the ubiquitous quality issues that plague their products. (And, BTW, this was in response to jeffrowse’s remark about <i>how spoiled “we” American collectors were,</i> mind you.)

The big problem here seems to be that I refuse to march in lock-step with the rest of the bunch and accept that “You could have more glaring paintflaws, cracked and broken parts, etc. as the norm instead.” So I guess we should all be grateful for that then and bow down and take it up you-know-where with a big smile on our faces? Well, that’s your prerogative. But the fact that you don’t care whether they get it right or wrong on a regular basis (or don't get pissed about it) says more about you than it says about me.

“There are a number of other international board members and except for you, all of them <i>do not</i> complain about the extra costs entailed with this hobby.” Yes, I know. I’m the real pain in the @$$. You give 21c a free pass and I get the slap in the face. Fine! Only that I'm not complaining about the "extra costs". I'm just pointing to a fact, namely that they can't get the job done right.

Again, the fact that we pay more for these “toys” over here doesn’t (or shouldn’t) mean that you guys over there should be willing to put up with these quality issues as “part of this hobby,” like you said. “Living with the defects is a part of this hobby.” Oh, really? Then they should sell their products as defect-ridden toys, IMO. Because toys or not, they shouldn't be faulty.

And no, I don’t want toys that cost less. That notion is silly. Unless 21c is marketing their Xtreme Detail toys as flawed pieces of crap, I expect their products to have correct markings, decent paint jobs and durable landing gear. Not perfect, not of museum quality, but not ostensibly flawed either.

If they can’t come up with a decent model/toy at that price, then they should raise their prices. Making faulty models or toys as the norm is not an acceptable business practice in my book. Sorry.

[King O' Fools]

Wow. Maybe I won't start collecting. I asked on a post on the F-104 review on Youtube if the tails were bent on them like the model in the video that they pointed out and someone else posted his tail was fine, but had other broken plastic parts. If they are toys instead of models that argument makes no sense either. I buy my nieces and nephews lots of toys from all different companies and they don't come out of the box prebroken and what manufacturer would expect and excuse like, "well, you have to expect that," to go over at all?
I should also ask you guys if the Zero's wheels don't all retract on yours like in this video. With two deadly honest reviews in a row from these guys and a promised third that somehow negative it can't be a coincidence that they got three random faulty planes.
I guess we know "King o' Fools" is betting the next review is one of 21st Century's planes.

To be honest, I haven’t bought any plane that literally fell apart out of the box, as stated in some horror stories that you’ll find on this board (that one was about a 21c Avenger, IIRC), but I certainly can recall some rather *questionable* (questionable as in substandard) paint jobs regarding the 21c ‘Big Beautiful Doll’ P-51 and ‘Eileen’ P-47 Bubbletop “toys”. Then, of course, we have the ‘Old Crow’ P-51 (both the 21c and BBI versions) which is missing the very name of the plane (something like two meters long in the real bird) from one side of the fuselage. (Yes, there are decals out there, but they’re not free.) So you can see there’s a little bit of oversight going on in the business when they can’t even get this lil’ detail right. Compared to that the missing screw caps story in some of the planes is nothing to worry about.

I really can’t tell if the Zero’s landing gear retracts fully or not, as most of my models are still in the box, and this is one of them (my Zero has white overspray but the landing gear seems to fit nicely in the wells, maybe I shouldn't deploy it?), so who knows what surprises await me…

[MG-42]

* KOF , would you be pacified if a manufacturer just simply sent you an aircraft for FREE ??? ... Just curious.


Mitch v MG

[RossVegas]

I don't think KOF is out of line at all. I think as I don't have a collection yet that I may not be "used" to the amount flaws you guys are. I think maybe many here are so happy their plane isn't a wreck when they get it that if a few parts are broken that they can fix that they count their blessings. But, I don't think that's right. I have very little room so I've been reading a lot here to decide what to buy and I stand by my toy vs. model statement from before. If it is a product for sale-retail-it should work. That gear on one side in the Zero video should be a twin of the other side that they said was "perfect"! If the plane is mirrored on the right from the left side how can it be so different that the "tire does not clear the door"? And as for purposeful defects on account of superstitions-that's the Amish, isn't it? Look at ALL the Chinese stuff you have that is made without purposeful errors. Your house if full of stuff that was in one piece and worked fine out of the box, so I don't buy it. And if they want to make errors as is their way (if it is) the U.S. parent companies should say, "Are you working for us or not?" " Am I the CEO and you the factory lineman or not?" You don't make decisions for us. And gear that does not stay down or is busted as I have read so many times here CAN NOT be an error made on purpose. Quite a few of you have pieces sitting on their tails instead of the tail gear I see. That other video of the F-104's tail head on- that would be returned right away if it were mine. That looks way over the line of acceptable. This is my opinion looking at this hobby from the outside so maybe I have a good perspective from out here.
Still, I like these planes and hope for a good one or three when I do buy.

[VMF115]

The landing gear on my zero is snug but it does fit, it’s a pain in the ass to lower, I just think the tolerances on the bbi zero are very tight. I mean every thing on it is right down to getting the cockpit in to getting the wings on. The canopy itself is tight just moving it in the open or closed position will leave scratches on it from rubbing against the fixed part of the canopy, but I still consider it a good product.

[STUKA]

I have yet to have a real problem with any of my toys/models - other than breaking parts here and there because i wasn't too careful or took it out of the box a bit fast - If 21st packaged their toys/models like Admiral we would have fewer gripes about broken parts imho.

But I proudly buy most of my flawless planes and tanks in the $15.00 range....

Bottom line - If you think of these as Models then do something about the problem - get out the sand paper and paint and fix her up. If you look at your Zero as a Toy then play with her.

I understand why we have hobbies - and I understand the frustration of not having easy access to XD I mean look at me I only have 30 WM's within 50 miles of my house. But a hobby is supposed to be relaxing...I mean take my Golf game...wait bad example...um ...you get the idea -

[olifant]

That’s the thing, Tman. I’m not begging for your sympathy and I honestly don’t care a hoot about your straw man arguments: “Just because you live somewhere far off doesn't mean that 21c has to cater exactly to <I>your</I> specific needs.”

Wrong side of the bed KOF? I can see where members would be angry with me but I have always known Tman to keep himself above the petty in fighting and selflessly take his time in purchasing items for other forum members and posting photos when we clammor for them.

I give everyone the right to share their opinion but my advice would be this: If you are unhappy with the merchandise you purchase, do not buy any more. I have many firms and brands I no longer choose to support.

If you demand quality, purchase from companies who make extremely accurate models. I can't recall the name but there is a Czech firm that will build 1/18 planes frame up and match the original to a tee. Cost is in the thousands of dollars. I choose to have a large collection of cheap toys rather than one or two of these items.

I come here to talk about the models that I love to colllect and most of them are made by 21C. I think if I hated the company and products that much I would find a different forum where I could share my anger and disappointment.

[VMF115]

IMHO I like 21st products and think they great for the price.

Olifant Is right if you don’t like the quality don’t buy the products from a company you are un happy with.
Btw KOF your currency is the euro? If so, your money goes a lot further then ours. and the drop in the USD should make it a bargain for you to buy here in the states form online business.

[King O' Fools]

* KOF , would you be pacified if a manufacturer just simply sent you an aircraft for FREE ??? ... Just curious.


Mitch v MG

Hmmm, actually... Nope!

Following your analogy, I'd be "pacified" if they addressed their quality control problems.

[King O' Fools]

I come here to talk about the models that I love to colllect and most of them are made by 21C. <b>I think if I hated the company and products that much I would find a different forum where I could share my anger and disappointment.</b>

No, I don't "hate" 21c, but as their customer I think I am entitled to my own opinions (up to and including criticism of their products).

Sorry, Olifant, but I'm taking no lessons on what I should say or do on this or any other forums from you. Just because I don't belong in the 21c amen choir, I'm not going to shut up. Simple as that.

[STUKA]

Again... this forum is not a place to argue. We all agree there are some quality issues with 21st - please read the historical threads from 2004-2007. We have plenty of gripes here and there - but we still enjoy and love the XD product.
This is not a place for displacement and the "winks and eye rolling faces" don't make a comment any less contentious.

In a Conan O'Brian Voice*
Can't we all just share our XD and live happy?
does a silly dance and exits left.