21st's King Tiger's size

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:50 pm

Is it just me...or does that King Tiger looks a bit too small? While I'm waiting for it to come out, I kept staring at its pre-production photos, and I couldn't help but notice it's size compared to the 1/18th figures.

Black_Dragon_One · Post by **Black_Dragon_One** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:26 am

I think the tiger is the right size just the figure is too big..

digger · Post by **digger** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:04 am

I can't say one way or the other but I will agree the figs are big. I have noticed this trend - maybe to help in the articulation - that figures are much bigger than they used to be. The Japanese were huge (very incorrect) but had so much detail and articulation I didn't mind, especially since they have no vehicles. But when you have US and Germans overscale, it is odd next to the vehicles. I think all lines right now are averaging over 4 inches per fig, which for WWII is a bit much.

Panther F · Post by **Panther F** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:10 am

I agree, the figures are pretty close to 1/16th size in comparison with a Tamiya figure.

But put the two vehicles (1/18 & 1/16) side by side and there is a huge difference!

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:18 am

Were are you getting your pictures from to compare sizes ? Do remeber that alot of the Tiger II were crewed with the SS. And at a time there was a height requirement ( I think it was 5' 10" ?) to get in to the SS. Of course closer to the end of the war these were lifted. But those tankers were a hardy bunch.
Oh I just remember that Wittman was a little dude but he was not in the Tiger II.
Every rule was ment to be broken. We all were teenagers . Some of us still are.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:23 am

You guys ever notice how big the Japanese pilot is that comes with the BBI Zero? Man that guy has legs like Hulk Hogan.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:30 am

for some reason the 21c figures do tend to be on the large side which is odd considering how difficult it is to get even an accurately scaled 1/18 figure in a vehicle.

When you compare xd figures to war time photos you are being misled. Xd figures are all about 6 feet tall(+) where as most of the people in the pictures you are looking at are 5'7" or maybe less. Plus, most people tend to slouch a bit. It may not sound like much but just a 1/4 of an inch (~4 scale inches) makes a big difference as to how big an xd figure looks beside a vehicle.

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:03 am

You guys ever notice how big the Japanese pilot is that comes with the BBI Zero? Man that guy has legs like Hulk Hogan

Maybe he's a Sumo wrestler in civilian life...LOLL!!

kimtheredxd · Post by **kimtheredxd** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:11 am

New from 21st,figures with realistic crappy posture!

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:18 am

http://www.21stcenturytoys.com/area21/a ... newsID=261

here is the news link and pic's.

V2 MAN · Post by **V2 MAN** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:41 am

I too have noticed that the bbi figures tend to be a little bit smaller or larger than the 21st figs. But to me it gives a little variety in height cause not everyones the same height in life.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:41 am

i always thought the japanese figures represented the starting line up for the IJA basketball squad...

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:56 am

Hmmm...you guys are right. The 1/18th figures are a tad big. They're the same proportions (ie: the same head size, etc) as a Tamiya 1/16 figure, and FOV's 1/16 figures.

You know...that first-released Panzer commander would be *perfect* for this King tiger.

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:54 pm

Scale seems to be an odd thing in the toy/model world. Most of 21's 1:18th figures will work with Dragons and Tamiya's 1:16th Model kit figures. By that I mean if you were to do a diorama you could mix the figures and it would look ok. Now put 21's 1:18th guys next to Verlindens 1:16th figures.... it doesn't work. 21st is way to small.
21 and BBI 1:18th figs are the same hight and both are taller than Dragons Action 18 1:18th figs.

When I get some time I'll take some pics.
Ok its almost '08, I want my Tiger and I want it NOW!............................

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:29 pm

Verlinden's figures are actually 1/15, even though they are often marketed as 1/16, which is why they look bigger.

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:39 pm

Yes I think thats correct but within Verlindens figures, the scale varies. One of the first was a Fallschirmjager which was just larger then anything that came after,I think it was 1:15+ or should I say 1:14th, 13th. Many of the other figures were around 1:16th but hands were to large or arms to long. It just seemed like it was up to the sculptor and no set standard. I have many of these figures and as I said above... when I get some time I'll take some pics. I think it might help us as model makers/collectors to try and understand scale.

Forward Observer · Post by **Forward Observer** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:55 pm

Hi, guys.

New to the forum, but I happened to catch this discussion. Below is a picture of four of the 21st Century figures. (Excuse the poor quality)

The one to the left is the pilot for their first Bf109E-4 and right next to him is the rear gunner for their first Stuka. Also include are a Spitfire pilot and the artillery figure that comes with the Pak 40.

Measuring them in inches and multiplying by 18, the first figure would about be 5 feet 2 inches tall, while all the rest would come in at about 6 ft 1 in. or 6 ft 2 in.

Obviously. the design people, or somebody with the company, felt that their first figure was a bit under scale, but it appears that they over-corrected and made everybody from that point on over 6 feet.

I don't think you could cram one of their current pilots in their first Emil without some surgery.

While the Spit pilot appears to be lanky, which might be correct for a six footer, the Stuka gunner and particularly the Pak 40 crewman are so darn beefy that they do compare to Hulk Hogan. ( or more to a scale of 1:17 or 1:16)

Given the average height of humans born from 1910 to say 1925 and particularly Europeans suffering the depression that occurred after WW I, I seriously doubt that 6 foot tall soldiers and pilots were the norm.

I guess I'm going to have to start sawing legs off if I want a correct scale.

Cheers

digger · Post by **digger** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:11 am

Hello and Welcome! Very nice comparison photo.
The early drivers and pilots were purposely small to get into the vehicles. The Sherman Driver, Panther driver, Kubel and Jeep Drivers, and 109 and Mustang pilots all fell in this category. People complained about the scale and that approach was ditched. I think some people would have preferred small figs for the vehicles so they all could fit.

But it is interesting to see how big the guy on the right is. I like the bulk - soldiers never look skinny, no matter how thin they are, expecially in winter gear. But combine the bulk with the increased height and the guys do look huge.

coreystinson · Post by **coreystinson** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:23 am

digger wrote:The early drivers and pilots were purposely small to get into the vehicles. The Sherman Driver, Panther driver, Kubel and Jeep Drivers, and 109 and Mustang pilots all fell in this category. People complained about the scale and that approach was ditched.

The biggest problem being that the figures were smaller than the carded figures they were releasing at the time! This was just craziness.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:42 pm

Forward Observer wrote:I don't think you could cram one of their current pilots in their first Emil without some surgery.

On the very first ME-109E you have to actually remove the seat, cut off the little peg underneath and re-glue it in order to get a larger pilot figure to fit. No surgery is required on the figure. I've tried to fit a Stuka-crew figure into the ME-109E (and Bf-109G) with no luck. However, the FW-190 pilot fits without a problem, as does the larger remake of the original 109 pilot. On all subsequent ME-109Es, 21c seems to have lowered the pilot seat and has included the larger version of the original figure.

Forward Observer · Post by **Forward Observer** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:08 pm

Bf109 cockpits were notoriously cramped and restrictive anyway, but I do think they over-corrected the figures when they went to the larger size.

If they had gone with figures of 3.75 inches instead of over 4 inches one would have a scale person of about 5 ft 8 in, which would have been a good average for the time period.

This sort of thing is not uncommon in any scale though. I built a 1/35 Tamiya Stuart a few years ago, and although the Stuart is a really small tank, the US Tank commander that they included was at least 25% to 30% over scale.

In fact if one set the US figure next to another that I got with Tamiya 1/35 German vehicle, it looked just like the picture comparison of the Emil and the Stuka figures in my first post.

Cheers

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21st's King Tiger's size

21st's King Tiger's size

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