Attack!

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:51 pm

As with the last thread that I started I am pushing for that other group of poorly represented aircraft. That of the Ground Attack category, I was thinking of doing this one as a pole, however poles only let you choose one type and are thus far to restrictive.

So instead I am going to use a list format and will include some controversial types that even though they do not strictly belong to the that of the attack designation, in my opinion are still attack aircraft due to their use or adaptation to this role. I have also included strike aircraft into this list as well.

You will see also that I have included some aircraft types that have been produced already (or at least soon will be), however I have tried to include only those that are significantly different from that already out there in 1/18th land.

Junkers J.1
Henschel Hs-123
Junkers Ju-87G
Junkers Ju88C-6
Henschel Hs 129
Messerschmitt Bf-110F/G
Fw-190F/G
Bristol Beaufighter
Douglas A-20G Boston/Havoc
De Havilland Mosquito
Douglas A-26 Invader
North American B-25G/H
Hawker Hurricane MkIV
Hawker Typhoon
Hawker Tempest
North American A-36A Apache/Invader
CAC CA-13 Boomerang
Ilyushin Il-2 Shturmovik
Ilyushin Il-10 Shturmovik
Petlyakov Pe-2
Petlyakov Pe-3
Vought /Goodyear Corsair F4U4
Fairy Firefly
Gloster Meteor
Lockheed P-80 Shooting Star
Grumman F9F Panther
North American FJ-4B
Douglas A-1E (AD-5) Skyraider (Fat Face)
Douglas AC-47 Spooky
Blackburn Buccaneer
North American A-2 Savage
Douglas A-3 Skywarrior
Fairchild AC-119 Shadow/Stinger
Fairchild AC-123K Black Spot
Cessna A-37 Dragonfly
Grumman A-6 Intruder
English Electric (Martin) Canberra (B-57)
Vought A-7 Corsair
Republic F-105 Thunderchief
North American F-100 Super Sabre
Lockheed AP-2H Neptune
Sukhoi Su-7/17/20/22 Fitter
Northrop F-5 Tiger
General Dynamics F-111C
SEPECAT JAGUAR GR. 1
Lockheed AC-130 Spectre
McDonnell Douglas A-4 Skyhawk
FMA IA 58 Pucará
Dassault Mirage F.1
Panavia Tornado GR Mk.1
Hawker Siddeley Harrier GR Mk.1
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-27D/J and K/M Flogger
Sukhoi SU-24 Fencer
Sukhoï Su-25 (Frogfoot)
Hawker/ McDonnell Douglas/Boeing Harrier II (GR.7)
Hawker Sea Harrier FRS1, FA2
Fairchild/Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II “Warthog" (I would have been hung if I’d forgotten this one)
McDonnell Douglas/Boeing F-15E Strike Eagle
Grumman F-14 Bombcat
Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk
Dassault Mirage 2000D
Boeing F-18F Hornet
Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II
Eurofighter Typhoon
Sukhoi Su-34 Fullback
Sukhoi Su-30
…..all the missing bits to make my F-16 and F/A-18 into real strike packages

There, now you can add all the ones I missed!

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:01 pm

Bring on the A-10 Warthog!!!!

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:23 pm

The A-10 isn't a ground attack plane.

It's a destroyer of anything moving on the ground airplane! It dominates in the ground attack role so it deserves it's own catergory.

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:45 pm

So you think 21st will make one?

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:53 pm

normandy wrote:So you think 21st will make one?

No....

DocTodd · Post by **DocTodd** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:06 pm

The A-10 is by far my choice, but 2nd is the SEPECAT Jaguar. Yeah Baby!
Todd

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:37 pm

What about the The F-14 bombcat

Panther F · Post by **Panther F** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:48 pm

A Sandy!

Jeff

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:59 pm

Grognard wrote:Where's the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk?

This is an ideal 1/18 subject. Famous, universal, and most importanly small.

.....it is there?

SEPECAT JAGUAR GR. 1
Lockheed AC-130 Spectre
McDonnell Douglas A-4 Skyhawk
FMA IA 58 Pucará
Dassault Mirage F.1

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:04 pm

VMF115 wrote:What about the The F-14 bombcat

I actually had the Bombcat on my mind while making the list but as I had so many aircraft in there already I just plumb forgot to add it.

However this situation has now been rectified.

Grilledcheese · Post by **Grilledcheese** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:19 am

Somebody mentioned a JAGUAR?
Man, I used to love those little jets.

I'll take one!

Jeffrey
(sepecat)

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:21 pm

I must say I’m a little shocked and somewhat disappointed that the 370 odd viewers of this thread (especially you Aferg’) could have let me compile a list of Attack/Strike aircraft, but leave out two of the most significant ones from WWII, while out on my lunch time walk at the southern end of the local airport a small twin was just departing overhead when the Doppler effect from the slightly unsynchronised props made me think about my list and I suddenly realised I had forgotten to add the Whispering Death and the Wooden Wonder.

Yes I forgot to add the Bristol Beaufighter and the De Havilland Mosquito.

You should all be ashamed!

jeffrowse · Post by **jeffrowse** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:15 am

How about the F4G 'Wild Weasel' Phantom, and all the other SEAD/DEAD aircraft out there? And where are all the helicopters?

And surely you should have the Avro Vulcan on there too - not only would it make quite an impressive display in 1:18th but it was definitely designed for attacking the ground...

And then there's the AC-130 Spectre, all the other Maritime Recon/Patrol aircraft and so on.

One "problem" you will run into with this sort of thing - trying to "fix" modern aircraft into one role - is that very few are made that way any more. The Eurofighter Typhoon was supposed to be a 'pure' fighter aircraft carrying air-to-air missiles and a gun only, but the politicians stuck their noses in as always and suddenly an aircraft designed to chase and shoot down other aircraft was having to cart bombs around as well. I believe the American government is doing something similar with the F22 (first GBU-39 SDB - Small Diameter Bomb - was dropped from an F22 on 5th September; exactly how are you supposed to get an air-to-air kill with an unpowered bomb? Mavericks and Hellfires have hit slow-moving helicopters but that was much more luck than judgement!)
Similar sort of thing with the F-14D Bombcat already mentioned above, although in that case the ground attack role was definitely a bolted-on afterthought since the USN simply wanted to justify keeping hold of a few more airframes...

Finally, I'd love an FA2 Sea Harrier - although the FRS1 (original Sea Harrier) was a good bomb platform (ie it could put its bombs close enough to the target to get a 'kill'), I think the FA2 looks nicer...

Jeff (Rowse, not the other one. Or ones. Ooh look, we're multiplying!!

)

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:39 am

Great idea, with 21c's Phantom due out in the next coupla months, adding the Weasel won't take much. I like it!!!

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:52 am

jeffrowse wrote:How about the F4G 'Wild Weasel' Phantom, and all the other SEAD/DEAD aircraft out there? And where are all the helicopters? And surely you should have the Avro Vulcan on there too - not only would it make quite an impressive display in 1:18th but it was definitely designed for attacking the ground...
And then there's the AC-130 Spectre, all the other Maritime Recon/Patrol aircraft and so on.

One "problem" you will run into with this sort of thing - trying to "fix" modern aircraft into one role - is that very few are made that way any more. The Eurofighter Typhoon was supposed to be a 'pure' fighter aircraft carrying air-to-air missiles and a gun only, but the politicians stuck their noses in as always and suddenly an aircraft designed to chase and shoot down other aircraft was having to cart bombs around as well. I believe the American government is doing something similar with the F22 (first GBU-39 SDB - Small Diameter Bomb - was dropped from an F22 on 5th September; exactly how are you supposed to get an air-to-air kill with an unpowered bomb? Mavericks and Hellfires have hit slow-moving helicopters but that was much more luck than judgement!)
Similar sort of thing with the F-14D Bombcat already mentioned above, although in that case the ground attack role was definitely a bolted-on afterthought since the USN simply wanted to justify keeping hold of a few more airframes...

Finally, I'd love an FA2 Sea Harrier - although the FRS1 (original Sea Harrier) was a good bomb platform (ie it could put its bombs close enough to the target to get a 'kill'), I think the FA2 looks nicer...

Jeff (Rowse, not the other one. Or ones. Ooh look, we're multiplying!! )

G'day Jeff

I deliberately did not include the attack helicopters in this list as the aim was to cover the fixed wing assets but I guess I did not mention that in the pre-amble.

At the start of this thread I did say I was excluding aircraft already made and those that are already slated to be built (unless significantly different that is) and even though I was very tempted to add the F-4 to the list, I thought to do so may be condemning both as yet unmade F-4's to never hitting the shelves at all, so I chose to leave the Phantom II off in a hope that AT will reconsider the production and that 21stCT will fore fill their promise, I also suspect or at least hope that if a F-4E ever does make the grade, that then a F-4G would not be that much of an extra stretch to make.

As for the Vulcan, well I'd have to say that the Vulcan as pretty as she is, is still a bomber and not a attack/strike platform and after having seen at least two of these birds in real life I can tell you an airplane as big as the Vulcan has about as much chance as a B-52 or a AC-130 of ever being made in 1/18th scale, in other words next to none.

The AC-130 Spectre in already in the list, as are the Spooky, Shadow/Stinger and the Black Spot gunships as well.

I agree in that in today’s multi-role climate that there are very few pure modern attack airframes anymore (the A-10 Hog and the Su-25 Frogfoot being but two of the true exceptions) and as such the Typhoon Eurofighter (which is up there), SAAB 39 Gripen, F-22 or any other modern fighter fitted with smart weapons can now fore fill the attack/strike role to some degree, I mean if they can hang rocket pods and bombs on the F-104 then they can hang them on anything.

I will admit however that the Sea Harrier should be up there as the maritime Harriers were designed from the outset to be a full multi-role package, but I did say that I’d probably miss some and will add it to the list.

Maybe the even Gloster Meteor needs to be up there too as i know the RAAF used them for attack/strike in Korea and I’m also thinking of adding the English Electric Canberra (or Martin B-57 as many of you may know her) to the list as both the RAAF and the UASF (B-57) used them for strike missions in Vietnam.

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:52 pm

I am down with the Hs 123 or Tempest

wreckchaser · Post by **wreckchaser** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:16 am

I'd have to say that the A-20G would be at the top of my list,followed by the A-4 and A-7

NapalmKnight4149 · Post by **NapalmKnight4149** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:01 pm

Would any of the "Wild Weasel" aircraft count? F-100Fs, F-105s, or F-4Cs

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:57 am

pickelhaube wrote:I am down with the Hs 123 or Tempest

The Tempest was the ultimate big ugly from the RAF and one of my late war favourites to be sure and if i had the choice between the tempest and the Typhoon the tempest would win hands down, but to be fair the Typhoon like the over shadowed Hurricane probably did the lion’s share of the work.

As far as Henschel’s go I would have to say I’d pick Henschel’s other ground pounder the Hs 129 as my preferred aircraft, especially the 7.5cm armed version.

wreckchaser wrote:I'd have to say that the A-20G would be at the top of my list, followed by the A-4 and A-7

I've been thinking about the Havoc a lot myself, as far as allied WWII attack aircraft go it along with the Beaufighter (whispering death), Mosquito and the Invader would make excellent 1/18th multi-place subjects.

In my all time favourite flight sim’ Il-2 both the Beaufighter and the Havoc share about equal time on my screen, but the Beaufighter’s cannons and the ability to carry HVARs gives a little bit more punch I must say and what’s not to like about an aircraft that has been described as two engines followed closely by a fuselage.

NapalmKnight4149 wrote:Would any of the "Wild Weasel" aircraft count? F-100Fs, F-105s, or F-4Cs

As I said earlier the F-4 is not on the list because we are supposed to be getting one in the future one way or another and the AT version is already tooled as a F-4C/D variant.

The F-105 is already up on the list, seeing it was the prime mud-mover from Vietnam and I guess with clever tooling both a single and two seater could easily be made from the single tool.

As for the F-100 goes I thought I had it up there but it does appear that I have missed it after all, unfortunately by the time of Vietnam war the USAF suddenly realised that it's fighters designed to fight off wave after wave of Soviet strategic bombers were well and truly under-employed in the SEA conflict and thus as found they were under equipped for a mainly ground offensive, so as long as you could sling a bomb on it then anything could be used for the strike attack role, but the two seaters like the F-4, F-105, A-6 made perfect platforms for missile suppression as back then before all the current smarts the workload for a single crew was a little much to ask especially with such a hot and hostile ground defence environment.

NapalmKnight4149 · Post by **NapalmKnight4149** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:30 am

Sorry Spud should have read the list before i posted but luckily there was one i listed that you missed.