This seems wrong, what do you think???

mccarthy1028 · Post by **mccarthy1028** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:28 pm

ALMOST ALL THE PEARL HARBOR BBI ZERO'S HAVE BEEN SOLD ON EBAY BY BADCAT...IVE SEEN 3 OF THEM COME FROM THERE, BUT YET THEY DONT HAVE ANY IN STOCK??? SEEMS A LITTLE WEIRD TO ME THAT THERE IS NONE LEFT AND PEOPLE ARE PAYING OVER 200 BUCKS SOMETIMES, AND THEYRE COMING FROM THE ONLINE RETAILER THAT SOLD THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE...JUST THOUGHT I SHOULD LET YOU GUYS KNOW MY OPINION...BADCAT SHOULD AUCTION ALL THEIR STUFF IF THATS THE CASE!!!

HERE ARE SOME LISTINGS....

NOTICE IT SAYS ITS A AUCTION ONLY AND LAST ONE, THERE IS NO MORE IN THE STORE....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :IT&ih=015

http://cgi.ebay.com/A6M2-ZERO-1-18-ULTI ... dZViewItem

Post by **aferguson** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:36 pm

These came out nearly two years ago. BCT bought a bunch of them as north american exclusives and while the sold decently, they were around a very long time. Many times they were on discount, in order to move some of the stock of them out the door.

Now, almost two years later, if they're able to sell the handful they have left for big bucks, i don't really have a problem with it. If retailers don't make an overall profit on 1/18 items, especiallly exclusives, we're not going to see them anymore in future.

mccarthy1028 · Post by **mccarthy1028** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:45 pm

everybody here is always talking about evilbay and how badcat is the best online store out there... so how evil can ebay be if everyones' favorite online retailer is selling on it...I just think that if you have some left sell them through your store at an extra cost of corse, but to use ebay for an exclusive item is a bit unfair dont you think...

MG-42 · Post by **MG-42** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:53 pm

..... All of a sudden ,.. both Zero's seem to be the Holy Grail of 1:18 Aircraft ! ... + =

..... a bit unfair ,.. but not unusual.

immeww2 · Post by **immeww2** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:33 pm

I just think that BCA realized that the remaining stock they had left sold for much more than they could get on their website, so being that they are in the business to make as much profit as they can off their wares, they decided to offer it exclusively on EBAY where it's been highly successful for them. Just makes good business sense in my opinion.

Jolly Roger · Post by **Jolly Roger** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:04 pm

so how does badcat rig these auctions to go for 200$?

seems to me someone was willing to pay 200$ for a Zero, and BC had one.
cant get mad at blackcat for allowing market to set prices, and if they
dont stock it, then its more then likely it would be put on ebay, as its not
a rotating stock piece.

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:13 pm

A little over a year ago now, I got my Haleakala II P-38 off ebay. I only realized it came from BatCat because the phone number on my bank statement was the same as that on the next line which was for retail stuff from them. I've no problem with them doing this and applaud that they've changed their ebay id to show who it's coming from.

Of course, I also received my PH Zero from them that time at normal retail prices.

Black Lion VF-213 · Post by **Black Lion VF-213** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:30 am

Got no problem with Bad Cat selling Zeros on ebay. It's a free economy/market. They can strive to get as much profit as they want. If the Zero wasn't selling well at first via their own website and now they are selling better on ebay, so be it. They're doing the same thing with the HHH and Cripes A Mighty (a few months ago) Mustangs. Even now their selling the new Hellcat from ebay. If BadCat eventually turns a big profit from many of their ebay sells, perhaps they are in a better position to offer lower and discount prices in the future to sell products via their website. I say that benefits us and any newcomers to the hobby.

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:31 am

Doesn't surprise me at all - just out to get more money.

CW4USARMY · Post by **CW4USARMY** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:38 am

aferguson wrote:These came out nearly two years ago. BCT bought a bunch of them as north american exclusives and while the sold decently, they were around a very long time. Many times they were on discount, in order to move some of the stock of them out the door.

Now, almost two years later, if they're able to sell the handful they have left for big bucks, i don't really have a problem with it. If retailers don't make an overall profit on 1/18 items, especiallly exclusives, we're not going to see them anymore in future.

Completely agree. Badcat takes a hit when planes don't sell and they have to reduce prices. Why shouldn't they profit when a plane is in demand?
Badcat has been good for our hobby, even having exclusive paint schemes made. They deserve to make a profit when they can, dont you think? Moral of this story is if you are collector, buy them when they are regular retail and dont wait until demand goes high for a scarce bird.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:43 am

Another point is this: If Badcat were to list them at regular retail on their site, at this point they would most likely get snapped up by speculators who would just turn around and sell them on ebay anyway. I would find this pretty galling if i were Badcat....why shouldn't they make the extra bit of money when they took the big risk initially by forking out a ton of money when committing to the exclusive?

Was a time when many people thought 1/18 Zeros would end up being lead balloons. Both BBI and to an extent Badcat took a gamble to bring us a plane we said we wanted. Let them get some reward from it.

luftpanzer · Post by **luftpanzer** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:22 am

When I 1st started out selling I used ebay a lot till I got my web site up and running. I sold abunch of the then 1/6th scale Pak40s with a buy it now price of $75.00. A lot of times buyers would get in bidding wars over them and the Pak 40s would sale for $100.00 more then what I was asking for. So it is the buyers alot of the time the drives the sale price.

coreystinson · Post by **coreystinson** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:48 am

Let me put this into perspective a little bit.

I'll bet not a single person here is posting threads and lamenting when online vendor gets stuck with a bunch of extra inventory that they have to sell at a loss? Right?

Opportunities such as this are at least some small measure of making up for other losses that businesses will naturally incur. That's just the way it goes, and any business will/should seize upon any such opportunities.

If the business can't turn a profit, it goes away, and your hobby along with it.

FieroDude · Post by **FieroDude** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:21 am

From my own persepctive, I don't have an issue with it, either. I suspect a lot of us are guilty of picking up an extra piece or two that we stash away in the hope that something similar happens. And Bad Cat had them for a long time at regular and even clearance prices, so anyone who wanted one had the opponrtunity to grab one then--and for those that didn't, you had your chance. That they set a handful aside just shows me that they also were willing to take a gamble--what if Zero prices had NOT started going nuts? Like Aferg said, you could find them on e-bay a year ago for $30. And I can think of several items that haven't gained in value. Imagine being some poor sap who stocked up on Blackhawks or Apaches in the hope that they would become rare and go way up in value.

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:31 am

The woofer has sold the highest priced white zero ever . About $360 or so. He did not put the reserve price on that . There were a couple of guys who really wanted it. The guys who are willing to pay the price for the procuct are the culprits here NOT the vender. The ole supply and demand that has made the world what it is today.
I have several zeros 109s, Panthers and Tigers. I still want them. I am not trying to sell them. If I did , I would not sell them for the price that I bought them for. I would expect the market value for them. Notice I did not put "fair" in that statement. If they go back and re-issue them I would just keep them and put them back on the list for things to customize.
I guess that if I do want to sell them it would be a cool profit but I am in this thing for the fun of it . Not the profitable asspect. FUN is the key word. But I don't have to make a living on our beloved XD hobby . Other people do.
I will get off of my soap box now.

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:36 am

The problem is if a legit collector still wanted to buy one at the original price - and called Bad Cat, would they get it? I doublt it. They'd be told they were out of stock. Bad Cat still clearly has some. Now the only way you can get it is by being gouged on ebay. Do those planes come with a jar of vaseoline? I understand why they are doing it - but it still doesn't make it right.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:53 am

Well, as FieroDude said, collectors had plenty of time to get one at retail or even clerance prices. If they hesitated, then they were taking a chance on future availability and price. It's the same with any collectable toys.

And if they are new to the hobby and trying to catch up on old realeases, well, they have to expect to pay a premium price on some of the older and harder to find items. That's the way it goes with collecting anything from toys, to stamps, to coins, to cars.

No one is forcing them to pay these prices. They are bidding out of their own free will. They can simply start off in this hobby buying things that are readily avialable at low prices and hope to see the more expensive items reissued or produced by someone else, in future. If they don't want to wait, then that's their decision.

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:04 am

The fact that they still have some but are"out of stock" on line and only available on ebay is unethical...period. Its price gouging. They could surely still sell them for a resonable price thru their on line store. People can try to justify it however they want, but it is not right.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:12 am

ok, so what if they sold them through their website for $300 each? Is that ok....or is it only ok if they charge what retail was two years ago? Or is it unethical if they don't sell them at the clearance prices they once had them at?

Look at it this way. If Ferrari has an older model (say the original GTO)still in their posession, that has over the years skyrocketed in value, should they still have to sell it at the original retail price of $16,000, when the market value is over $500,000?

Retailers and etailers jack up their prices all the time when an item becomes rare and collectible. Some business that's all they do is buy collectible stuff, sit on it and then jack up the prices when people will pay it. That's the way the world of collectibles works.

lightning2000 · Post by **lightning2000** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:15 am

Hi,
PMFJI but I dont see a problem here, whether the seller was Badcat, us or some other vendor/collector looking to make a few bucks on items that once sold for far less. If a couple of guys get into a bidding war, then so be it. Its not the vendor's fault if two guys decide to pay above average prices for something that once sold for a much lower amount.

I used to be a coin collector. Now does that mean I should walk into a coin store and demand that the vendor sell me a Morgan Silver Dollar for $1 just because at one time my great grandfather could have gotten one for that amount? Vendors arent obligated to do anything. They're in business to make money, just like any other business. If they refuse to sell an item on their web site and feel they can reap greater profits through a different venue such as an auction site, then that's there choice. You're also forgetting about all of their overhead, the risk they ran by bringing in an exclusive, the current state of the marketplace, product dumping by other vendors, etc. To single out a vendor for making money on something several guys are WILLING to pay isnt being fair at all to the vendor or other collectors that recognized the value of an item when they purchased it when it first came out.

I can certainly understand why you'd now like to be able to buy something for far less after seeing how much it could fetch on ebay, but isnt that the same sort of greed you're now accusing the vendor of perpetrating by offering it up for auction? Seems like a double-edged sword, if you ask me.

Cordially,

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:18 am

I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. I still call bu11$hit on Bad Cat. I bought a Green zero from a member for like 100 bucks shipped. Is that more than retail - yes. Was it still fair - yes. THey can sell them on their site without lying and saying they don't have any left and for a reasonalbe price. 100 bucks whatever and still make a nice and reasonable profit.

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:14 pm

Yep, Scout, we're going to have to disagree on this one. You're wrong.

TANSTAFL (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch)

I'll give you an example. I have a physical store AND I sell things through E-Bay AND I even sell them through groups such as this one. Am I obliged to offer anything I sell at all three places at the same price?

IMHO, no.

I have some books that I only offer online, because of my limited shelf space for books in my store. In fact, some of the books I have for sale online I store at my house to free up space in the storeroom.

I often offer 1/18 items for sale here at a different price than I plan to list them on E-Bay. Some have sold here, some sold on E-Bay, some didn't sell at all and went back in a storage box or went to Goodwill. Same with 1/72 scale stuff on other boards. Sometimes I've been ready to offer something at a given price and someone else lists and sells the same thing at a higher price, so I bump my asking price up a little, too. It's called the free market.

Black Lion VF-213 · Post by **Black Lion VF-213** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:22 pm

Some may disagree with what I'm about to say, but that's okay. I for one am very glad to see prices ballooning on certain XD items on ebay. Does that mean I'm now gonna sell any of my XD items in the hopes of making some good coin? No. I could if I wanted to. And that would be totally ethical. I would not be forcing anyone to pay a high price. Bidders do that voluntarily. Do I want to pay $300 for any XD airplane?? Heck no, well I retract...only for an awesome F-14, but that's it!! All other planes, under $100. That's where I stand. Obviously there are some people out in cyberspace who really want a Zero bad enough to spend lots of coin for one. And this is a good thing.

If BadCat wants to claim "out of stock" for Zeros but only sell their last remaining boxes (including any other planes or tanks, etc) on ebay, then that's okay too. They are no committing any fraud whatsoever. They and the bidders on ebay who pay crazy money for plastic airplanes are doing this hobby a GREAT service. Read below.

The word of the day (well rather it's two) is:

Conspicuous Consumption

This is good for our hobby. This is what will bring or already has brought legitimacy to collecting "large plastic military airplanes and tanks". When people buy things for exorbatantly high prices as status symbols this draws the attention of numerous others to the purchased product. These products soon take on a "I gotta have it appeal". Call it narcissism or philosophy of futility for the masses, it doesn't matter soon anyone with any hopes of acquiring the "it factor product" will do whatever it takes to accrue enough money to purchase to product and be a part of the "in crowd".

So how does this positively affect us here on this board? 1. We who already have Zeros and Me109's and F/A-18's and all other "ebay it factor" airplanes will feel better about ourselves that we were fortunate to purchase one when they were reasonably priced. Hence we will even enjoy our planes even more 2. If we possess "it factor" airplanes then if we sell them, we will feel great about selling them for a profit and have extra money to buy the new airplane we've been waiting for once it's released. 3. And most importantly, since there are some folks willing to pay crazy money on ebay for airplanes, that means the manufacturers will see a brighter light in producing bigger, better detailed, and more likeable airplanes/tanks in the forseeable future. Isn't this all good??

Some may refute point number 3. You might say that the manufacturers will now jack up the price because some folks on ebay are willing to spend over $200 on a 18 scale plastic airplane. They might, but remember who are the majority of purchasers of these airplanes? Collectors like us who are only willing to pay the retail price and not the collector market price. Some of us may become people who make some good money on the side purchasing new retail prices only to profit off the same planes selling them on ebay. Then the cycle begins again. More purchases, more and better planes produced.

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:26 pm

You're wrong Gunner and its called being dishonest. You are not telling customers in your store you don't have a product any longer - when you do - (lying) just to sell it on ebay to get more money. If you or any other retailer does this it is wrong - period. You're not changing my opinion and I'm not changing yours. I have said all I intend to - done with this thread.

mccarthy1028 · Post by **mccarthy1028** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:11 pm

thanks to all that have responded, its actually good to see the mixed emotions... I agree and disagree with some of the posts... But i would think that as much as i here this website cry and pout about ebay and how evil it is, and then turn around and condone the same practices sounds to me like a bunch of hypocrites... I think that from now on, online retailers should announce all their lines that are coming out as exclusives, say that there is only 1000 available, and then sell about 200 of them at retail price... Then they can start telling people they are all sold out and sorry better luck next time... then a couple months down the road start letting them go out the back door on ebay from the remaining 800 supposedly sold out... This is really great business practice in my opinion... But as most who I disagree with said, its about making money right... Not fair, ethical business for collectors... I could see if a collector was selling their own airplanes. but when a business that is (SOLD OUT) starts selling them on ebay, thats different and everybody knows it... You dont see Walmart selling all of its XD on ebay and they sit on walmarts hands for a lot longer than badcat... And im not just picking on BCA, aviatornut is selling the green zeros as well, i emailed them to see if there was any left and they responded sorry im sold out, but here is my listing on ebay for a green zero... Im glad to see that people are paying a pretty penny for all the planes out there, gives reason for them being collectibles and not some toy sitting on my shelf... I also understand that it is the bidders that are paying these prices, but like i said, the same store selling them online and now ebay is unfair period... This is suppose to be a forum for collectors who support fair trade and market of XD products, since we are the collectors... Not a forum that supports the unethical sale of our beloved XD... and as for what anyone else thinks, i will probably still bye from badcat if there is another exclusive but in this case, I think its unfair sorry to ruffle everyones feathers....As one post said this is about FUN "collecting XD items" not price gouging... I just hope that 21st, bbi, and others dont snoop to this level seeing that are willing to pay these kind of prices for XD and jack up the prices... I already do this with gasoline, i dont want to do it with my hobbies and things i enjoy...
-MIKE-

Small Scale Military Headquarters

This seems wrong, what do you think???

This seems wrong, what do you think???

bbi Zero's ?

Selling Products

thanks