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thatf14guy
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Post by thatf14guy » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:37 pm

no comment
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thatf14guy
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Post by thatf14guy » Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:57 pm

no comment
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Post by c44588 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:17 pm

Comrade TF14G.....you musnt challenge or question the allocation of whatever you have been offered by the good people at BC.....to do otherwise will be to tempt your status as a member of the party and threaten your future supply of goods and services and perhaps even earn you some time in a re-education camp. Above all else, do NOT upset our dear Chinese suppliers!!!! (They might take it out on all those poor little Korean-girl employees).

These strange and combative thoughts you are having are simply vestiges of an earlier time, a time of conspicuous consumption....a time of, gasp :shock: , capitalism.....

You must adopt the ways of our NEW economy as espoused by Our Dear Leader, blessings and peace be upon him, and be thankful for whatever you get...whenever you get it.

BC, I apologize for my friend. I'll pay $400....for a 1/48th scale SpotCat, or whatever your Chinese friends decide to send to us.

Just don't be mad at us! Please!

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Post by c44588 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:31 pm

Really, how 'bout.....

" Dear Valued Customers. We want to take this opportunity to fully assure you that even though we (apparently) do not have any final production images of the F14, the model's quality and craftmanship will be identical to that which has been displayed at our website and others over the last 6 months. We will personally guarantee this product and will ship none if it does not meet this high standard. In any event, your complete, money-back satisfaction is always guaranteed as you, our valued and loyal customer, are our most important asset."

I dunno: just a thought.....

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Post by coreystinson » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:15 pm

Man, this is a baffling scenario to be sure.

It is almost beyond belief that JSI would turn around and release something that looks different from their promotional photos, especially to the extent that it would have some kind of inaccurate grey polka-dot spray ops on it. Their reputation would be single-handedly ruined forever.

A nuclear worse-case scenario is that they rushed this thing to final production and made some kind of bad last-minute decision on paint ops, but again I can't believe they'd do something so dumb with something so important. Plus, the quality of the other releases has been high which is another point in their favor.

For this reason, I would not get too worked up about the issue just yet.

I've went ahead and made a polite inquiry with Merit about this so hopefully they will get back to me with some clarification.
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thatf14guy
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Post by thatf14guy » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:21 pm

no comment
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Post by toyktdlgh » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:27 pm

I think everyone needs to chill on this till it shows up. I’ll admit I too was, and still am, a bit concerned about the paint that I saw. Take faith in the fact that almost everything in this world that’s bought at a retail location in good standing is returnable if there is an obvious defect. Not an, “I thought the plane would be darker” defect, but a real, genuine catastrophe like a spotted owl type defect. There is no reason to confront retailers or send worrisome emails to JSI. Lets just all wait and see what we get. I have a feeling we will all still be very pleased.

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Post by Coreyeagle48 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:42 pm

Greetings:

Everyone does need to chill out considerably about this. We haven't seen a finished Tomcat yet, only pictures of the pieces of the plane and the picture that all the retailers obtained that we are going to sell the plane.

Merit I think tried to do a cool thing by showing us production pictures of this plane. I actually feel bad for them. They tried to do something a little interesting and people flipped out and started complaining before they even saw a finished Tomcat. Perhaps Merit wasn't allowed to post a picture of the finished model because JSI wouldn't let them. Companies are funny like that.

I will be happy when my F-14 comes and I am sure it will be great. All of other JSI planes have looked good so far, why wouldn't this one. Let's keep everything in perspective here. This is a highly anticpated aircraft, I highly doubt JSI would put out a piece of crap when in reality their reputation in the 1/18 world rides on this piece.

I'm not at all worried about this and won't be having any sleepless nights because of it.
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Post by chunks » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:51 pm

Navy guy I once knew advised me, back in the days I was modeling, that the maintenance guys always carried around a spray can of paint to touch up the F-14's. Opening and closing panels, doors, etc, heck just everyday use would cause paint chipping. So they'd touch up constantly. The NavSpec paint they used would contrast with the weathered paint already on the a/c. He was always amazed at how "clean" everyone's models always looked.
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Post by BadCatMatt » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:02 pm

thatf14guy wrote:THIS IS THE EMAIL I GOT FROM BAD CAT:

The constant emails, numerous postings across the Internet, hostile blog posts--this is the very reason that the manufacturers keep all the hobbists in the dark. The Chinese will not have a direct confrontation with you, nor will they cave into demands from people screaming at them from the Internet. They will simply ignore the negative, the pushy, the angry, the rude--that is how they do business . . . and they will take steps not to enflame again--which means an almost total lockdown on information.

It's time for you to back-off, take a deep breath, remember that it is just a toy airplane and that there are more important issues in the world and move on. This is the Christmas season where kindness and peace are the order of the day.

Let's do something else today. And whatever it is, you have a good day! :)

Rob
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I don't normally post to this forum but since I was taken out of context (which happens frequently here), let me paint a complete picture.

This private email is the final correspondence sent to an individual who emailed us at least a dozen times, with several voicing extreme concern over paint quality and demanding post-production photographs. Just prior to my final email to this individual, he posted several times to the Tales of the Cat blog which were unnecessarily rude and profane. He angrily voiced his displeasure when these posts were deleted and my email is a response to this lack of civility, which under the circumstances is more than professional and reserved. The customer then replied, demanded a refund, made a threat, and used additional profanity. A refund was made within a few minutes of his demand/threat/obscenity and he'll be blocked from placing future orders.

-----------

I agree with Corey that JSI is much too professional to let the WIP F-14s shown leave the factory with polkadots. That would be a hack move typical of a new manufacturer but not one with the track record JSI has established. Finished post production photos would be greatly appreciated. The reason why we haven't seen any, I speculated on recently in the blog:

". . . as for no post production pics . . . it could be several reasons or a combination thereof:

1. The actual number of people who actually wrote to JSI and asked for post production pics was probably a very small number. Not enough to warrant a professional photo shoot, at least. And if quick snap shot pics are taken, well, you can see what can happen--more questions than answers--so that option is out.

2. The manufacturer is not a marketing based firm and may not have the photographic capabilities/facilities to take professional photos on short notice. You really need an expensive camera, a studio, and a skilled photographer (like Bad Cat Matt) to do the subject justice, show all the angles, and to get the lighting and color right.

3. The mfr. many have very few employees that speak English to deal with American customer service issues, translate emails, etc.

4. In my past dealings with China-based companies (I have no experience directly with JSI, however), I have found that if I came across as demanding, pushy or rude, they simply ignored me. The more aggressive I became, the larger the stone wall I faced. It's very possible that an anxious collector or two fired-off a round or two of scorching emails and every subsequent email sent on the subject was pigeon-holed. I don't know, just a theory.

5. As for distributor Merit, I can't speak for them but I don't think they have any post production aircraft yet to photograph . . . and I believe key personnel may be on TG holiday, already.

In the end, I think the spotted, work-in-progess paint photos are a non-issue. Molehills converted to mountains. JSI's previous work was near perfection in my book, and I don't see any solid evidence (save a couple of incomplete assembly line shots) that would lead me to expect any other result.

However, if you'd like us to hold your Preorder and not process it until after we post our actual in-house photos to be taken after the aircraft arrives, just let us know. We'd be happy to do that."

Rob
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Post by chunks » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:09 pm

After a quick check of online photos, here's what I've found of what weathering can look like on the 1/1 tomcat. All photos courtesy of Cybermodeler Online.

JSI's preshading technique is inline for a great model.

Image
Image
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Image
Image
Image
Image
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Post by Jericoeagle1 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:22 pm

Lt. Sawicki? He owes me money!
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Post by Coreyeagle48 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:22 pm

Greetings

It also I'm sure has to do with copyright issues as well.

Many companies don't release photos of a final product until just before sale due to copyright issues. Any photos out there could be used for false advertising, sales or for another company to attempt to copy a product.

If I recall correctly, in the past most of the production model photos we've seen have come from the dealers themselves, not the companies.

Corey
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Post by wolfman1973 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:37 pm

I agree we need to all chill. Go to merits web site and read there new posting on the F-14 Dots.

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Post by NWarty » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:42 pm

Sounds like Merit got the hint to give us more in the way of photos and hopefully a final production shot.

I do think it was a good idea to give us customers an idea of how the product was put together. I thought it bad form to post the WIP shots, AFTER the product shipped, showing an incomplete production. At this point, I and many others, obviously had concerns given the price point of the Tomcat.

I hope Merit's posting is indicative on what they plan to show us.

I've said my piece and keeping my fingers crossed. On to the next topic please :wink:

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Post by aferguson » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:19 pm

well, let's hope this is nothing more than a small error in judgement on JSI's part in showing spotted Tomcats without explanation or final version pics. I suspect we'll be chuckling about all this in a few weeks as we drool over our F-14's.
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Post by c44588 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:06 pm

No drooling...it might leave spots on my F14....

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Post by JohnLumley » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:07 pm

From the Merit website.

www.merit-intl.com/merit/main.html

:: JSI US Navy VF-84 Jolly Rogers Fighter Plane Updated: 11-20-09!

After posting the production pictures of the coming 1/18 "Jolly Roger" on our website, we have been receiving many emails and phone calls. We thank you for your concerns and very happy for your constructive criticism to make sure the JSI turns out a great product.

The "Leopard spots" in question are just one of the in progress pictures amongst over 1,000 steps during the production. These "Leopard spots" are actually on purposely made darker at the stage when the picture is taken and will gradually or magically look lighter in color after more layers of paint be sprayed.

Please stay tuned to our web site for the transformation.
Again, we thank you for your support!



See.... nothing to worry about.
It looks like we can all sleep a little better now. :D :D :D
One hundred and fifty three - 1:18 scale aircraft on the ceiling looks :shock: damn good!

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Post by thatf14guy » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:16 am

no comment
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Post by CENT-ONE » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:34 am

hmm... yeah, thatf14guy you should really take this to private message / email between yourself and badcat.
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Post by thatf14guy » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:45 am

no comment

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Post by Birddog » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:09 am

Just as I stated in a previous post as well as other members have stated too:
Birddog wrote:

This statement holds the key. My guess and from my experience building models is that this is just a phase of the weathering process. It would make since that the markings be applied before the last weathering phases are applied. If you didn't, it would look like the markings were added to it after the subject had been in service for a while. The markings should show wear and weathering just like the rest of the plane.

I have serious doubts that JSI would overlook something this obvious.

This has become a perfect example of why the manufacturers are so tight lipped about sharing information with us on projects that are being produced.

It's one thing to ask questions of concern in a constructive and inquiring manner, but to go totally Apesh@t is another. Especially when the whole story is not known.

I too thought it was pretty neat that JSI had chosen to show collectors pictures of the production process. Something I remember Jason (Admiral Toys) venturing to do at one point. I think JSI wants to start communicating with collectors like has never been done before as they get rolling, but I'm afraid this is going to shoot that all to hell.
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Post by thatf14guy » Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:54 am

no comment again.

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Post by Shin Densetsu » Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:42 pm

4. In my past dealings with China-based companies (I have no experience directly with JSI, however), I have found that if I came across as demanding, pushy or rude, they simply ignored me. The more aggressive I became, the larger the stone wall I faced. It's very possible that an anxious collector or two fired-off a round or two of scorching emails and every subsequent email sent on the subject was pigeon-holed. I don't know, just a theory.
It's a theory but I wouldn't be surprised if it's true. For the most part, most of us 1/18 fans get along quite well but one would be lying if they were to say that there aren't such things as very vocal, very demanding and very impatient fans with a screwed up sense of entitlement, even if they are in the minority.

Also with regards to JSI, before when fans would contact them, they were just working on the Tomcat, and 21st Century reissues. Now it's an entirely different story.

2009=1 primarily new product(F-14).
2010=Exponentially much more in addition to more 21st reissues.
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F-14 Tomcat, F-8 Crusader, A-4 Skyhawk, F-105 Thunderchief, A-6 Intruder, F-15C, F-15E Strike Eagle

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Post by Shin Densetsu » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:00 pm

I think JSI wants to start communicating with collectors like has never been done before as they get rolling, but I'm afraid this is going to shoot that all to hell.
It depends on how the fans handle and present themselves. Any of the boards can be viewed online with relative ease, it's not hard to see how different people really act in the face of a company, compared to how they act on the various boards online.

For what it's worth from my experience most of the 1/18 fandom gets along well but it's the irrational, vocal, jealous, and trash talking fans that will ruin it for everyone. They don't represent the majority even though it may seem like it but they sure screw things up for everybody.
Shin's wishlist for 1/18 and 1/32 with retractable landing gear and more:

F-14 Tomcat, F-8 Crusader, A-4 Skyhawk, F-105 Thunderchief, A-6 Intruder, F-15C, F-15E Strike Eagle

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