It's so big..

Post by **aferguson** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:14 pm

I've been thinking of making a 1/18 full hull u-boat, by scaling up a paper model kit to use as a template. Doable. But first i figured it was a good idea to get a feeling for what i was up against, size-wise, so i enlarge photocopied a sideview picture of a u-boat to 1/18 scale and just spent the last hour piecing it together on a wall.

This thing is unbelievably big.....i mean you just can't imagine until you see it. I had no idea it would be so huge. I had calculated the dimensions but until you actually see it you just can't imagine. U-boats always look rather dainty in photos, and this thing i put together is just a picture with no depth to it. It's going to be about 13 inches wide to boot! There is no way i can imagine building it and somehow displaying it.

U-boats were the smallest subs of the war. Gato's, Japanese subs etc were way bigger.

I think i've picked the wrong scale for a hobby.

Someone point me to the small scale forum, please..

grunt1 · Post by **grunt1** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:25 pm

viewforum.php?f=2

And don't let the door you in the {bleep} on the way out!

Moth · Post by **Moth** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:32 pm

I feel your pain Aferguson, about a week ago, I was looking at some photos of the Tu-95, and I thought, "I can build that, it looks so simple", then I measured it....

108 inches long
112 inches wide

If I give up all of my ceiling, then I guess I can do it, but Im not sure if I can make something that big out of styrofoam. Im afraid that the wings will really bend, or even break.
What do you think?

About the submarine, I really thought they were smaller

newwavepop · Post by **newwavepop** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:59 pm

ive been planning to try the same thing with some old small scale cut and build railroad buildings.

mrkisskissbangbang · Post by **mrkisskissbangbang** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:01 pm

I HEAR YOU! I've been working on building a waterline version of a German Type VIIC for a little while now. It is quite huge. I wanted to start with a mock-up made of insulating styrafoam and bristol board.
This way I would have a full scale version to figure out where to make cuts for easier transport. I also want my version to also have an exploding conning tower......similar to the ships from the ever popular vingtage floor-war game TORPEDO RUN.

If you can. Try to purchase the 1:72 scale Revell submarines. The plans are very helpful along with seeing what the parts look like. It makes measuring alot easier too.

When all is complete...it will be sweet to photograph them with my Avenger and Bristol Beaufighter.

I did end up purchasing one of those Alfa models Beaufighters....funny how it arrived the day the B-25 Mitchell project was announced. Now there is a definate possibility that they can be made.

I'll have to admit for the price as a "static" model.....it's not worth it. It's made of foam and quite fragile. It does look sweet and has a lot of building potential . Be prepared to build the entire cockpit, dorsal gun turret, landing gear, engine....etc. Not to mention re-enforcing the interior.

Cheers

scbvideoboy · Post by **scbvideoboy** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:27 pm

what's this alfa model thing?

DH

Post by **aferguson** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:34 pm

Moth: styrofoam is a good building mediium. I know that someone on the rcgroups forum made a B-1 out of foam and it was at least 10 feet long. So i would say it can be done, but maybe there are some tricks to it. Register at http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/index.php and ask on one of the foam flyer message boards. You'll get alot of help.

To save space consider leaving one wing off and mounting it right against the wall. Leaving one wing off will save ALOT of space. I sized out a B-52 once and was similarily overwhelmed by its size. That's when i considered the omitting one wing idea. Not ideal but it could mean the difference between making it or not.

Tell me how you make out because i was thinking that foam might be a better medium to make a full hull u-boat, as opposed to paper, which will have a faceted look due to paper's inability to make compoud curves.

I know nothing about building in foam...how were you planning on shaping it? And where do you get thick enough foam?

mrkisskissbangbang: actually i find paper models are excellent for making customs as all the measuring and thinking is done for you. You just enlarge the parts to the proper scale and start piecing them together.

I've sized out a waterline type viic before and while big i felt it wasn't overwhelming. The full hull type ix i pieced together today was just unreal. No comparison in size. It was almost frightening it was so big.

I've still yet to order the Beaufighter. I'll probably get it in April. I know the drawbacks of it but it's the only Beaufighter likely to be available in this scale so you gotta do what you gotta do.

How do you guys know how to build in styrofoam? ie shaping etc. I thought you need a computer operated laser cutter to do it.

grunt1: i'm going to miss you when you're gone.

Post by **aferguson** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:37 pm

Alfa thing: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/beaufighter.htm

It's closer to 1/17 than 1/18 but nice.

Moth · Post by **Moth** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:50 pm

Aferguson,

Thick foam is a really big problem, so far I found two 4 inch thick blocks of styrofoam outside, I havent found where to buy them

I guess we will have to glue many pieces together.

To cut styrofoam, the best method is to use the "hot wire". You can buy this thing, but I made one myself, it is a special wire (dont know the name, it is the heat element in a hairdrier), streched across a stick, and the wire is heated by a battery. It cuts very smoothly and cleanly.

Only use the standard white styrofoam that comes in Tv, ect. boxes, Home Depot has it, under the insulation section.

mrkisskissbangbang · Post by **mrkisskissbangbang** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:55 pm

Aferguson

Where do you get your paper models from? I use to build them a few years ago. I use to buy mine from Paper Models International. I also liked the WW2 CD from Fiddlers Green. I just wish that some of their "work in progress" projects would come to fruition. Still waiting for the B-25 Mitchell and Lancaster, which were proposed a few years ago.

I had to give up on some of the models due to a lack of knowing the Polish language. Some of the instructions were written not easy to follow diagrams.

_____________________________________________________________

Working in styrafoam is almost like working with wood. You'll have to do a lot of sanding. If you are serious about the getting the curves. You'll have to make templates.....similar to what they do with miniature ship building. There are submarine plans out there, but I'd rather work from a 3 dimensional model.

Cheers

Post by **aferguson** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:07 pm

So how do you shape the styrofoam..do you use the hot wire that Moth was talking about?.....can you cut precisely with it? And when you sand etc doesn't it just splinter and chip? Most foam i've worked with crumbles. Do you know a source for thick styrofoam? If not what type of glue would you use to glue thin sections together?

The foam they use for airplanes is not styrofoam. It looks like styrofoam but is quite a bit stronger and more resiliant and has other properites too. Ask on the rcgroups message board where to get it if you're interested.

I get paper models from The Paper Model Store. I've made a couple of tanks by scaling them up. I just simplified the process, left alot of interior stuff off and winged it a bit. Took some guesswork but both turned out very nice i think. I was planning on scaling up a paper model for my waterline type viic and i have also purchased paper models of a japanese sub and a gato. I hope to make waterlines of those some day too. The full hull sub is the real challenge though.

However, i'm very interested in learning more about modelling with styrofoam. Is there any kind of site with detailed info, tips etc?

Moth · Post by **Moth** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:19 pm

You can cut very accurately with the hot wire, but it is very hard to do, I just cut the basic shape, then sand it. Interestingly, styrofoam crumbles when you break it, but not when you sand it. Regular white, or wood glue works very well for foam, but drying time is rather long. I have also had success with super/crazy glue believe it or not, but only with small amounts of SG, and tiny parts.

Post by **aferguson** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:21 pm

what have you built from foam? Have you any pictures you can post?

Moth · Post by **Moth** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:33 pm

Unfortunatly, I dont have a digital camera, so no photos

So far I have made,
PzKpfw III engine (my first attempt at anything, but scale is way off, it's like 1/10)
A Lobster (dont ask why, I dont know why)
1/18 Tiger engine (made it for a friend, dont have it anymore)
and a couple of 1/18 buildings (also for a friend)

Not much, but I have the basic idea of how to make things out of styrofoam now, and for the past 1 1/2 years have been endlessly thinking of which plane to make. I have a feeling I going to go insane before I decide.

mrkisskissbangbang · Post by **mrkisskissbangbang** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:59 pm

I find it difficult to get a precise cut from my hotwire. I've recently used it more for the rough cut out. I use my xacto knife and sandpaper for the rest. I've cut out letters to make signs and stuff. White SuperTacky glue works pretty good but needs to be held in place for quite a while until it dries.

My most recent project that is sitting on the shelf is building approximately 25 German bombers (Heinkel He 111, Ju 88 and Do 17) as 1:18 scale silhouettes. Also, building Me 109E, Spitfire and Hurricane along with a British pub sign.
This is all for a WW2 themed gala in a few months. I'll make sure to take photos of them....especially because they will all be suspended from the ceiling. I just have to work on strengthening the wings so they won't fracture with the possibility of strong wind conditions in the room.

As mentioned in my previous post I use insulating styrofoam. It's cheaper than what you can get at the craft store. It comes in various thickness but they are all quite long. I've had to cut it in half to fit it in my car to take home.

Cheers

KAMIKAZE · Post by **KAMIKAZE** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:04 pm

Aferg,

Where are you going to keep the sub? Wouldn't that thing be at least 15' long?

Mark

Post by **aferguson** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:15 pm

Moth: another idea for your big plane. If you're worried about wing sag use four loops for hanging. One for the front a rear fuselage and one for each wing about 2/3 of the way out. That way everything is well supported and shouldn't sag.

MRKISS: what would you recommend for cutting large chunks out of a block of styrofoam...as in shaping a u-boat fuselage. An exacto knife blade would be way too small. The more i think about this idea the more interested i'm getting.

Kamikaze: I made it in 1/20 scale and it's about 12 1/2 feet long. I was going to hang it from the ceiling, like an airplane, only right tight to one of my walls, which i thought i might paint an underwater blue-green colour. After seeing the size of my mock up though, i think i'm too frightened to go ahead with it.

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:23 pm

what about breaking it down building four sections that can fit together and take apart when your ready to store it in your extra house...
man that is big

Post by **aferguson** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:48 pm

it is going to be in sections, 4 approx. three foot long sections. It would be impossible to build and move around otherwise. It is big, but BOY would it be cool if i could pull it off.

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:59 pm

May I suggest, just a section of a U-Boat that would show the conning tower with AA guns, maybe a deck gun. Would be awesome shooting at your Atlantic Avenger in a dive.

It was possible for U-Boats to be partially submerged in "dangerous waters" where only the conning tower (with snorkel for diesel use)) was visable.

An idea?

I'd love to see any part of a 1/18 or 1/32 U-Boat.

TTT

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:32 pm

Spray on contact glue works well and is quick drying. If you use wood ribs as guides you could glue them all together and use the hot wire guided by the ribs and cut it out that way. Usually the styrofoam is coverd by balsa. This is the standard way that R/C wings are done. It should work for the sub. A good place to get large styrofoam from are places that sell boats. The boats (smaller ones) use them for padding and it is also in the hulls for floatation. This is a good place to start. I was given a piece about 2' by 4' . that is a big piece of styrofoam.

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:42 pm

Another cheaper way is to use 1/8" thick luan door skins. You could cut it into strips and apply it with the contact spary paint. To smooth it out Bondo works well on the planking and sticks well to the wood. It also is fairly cheap. You could coat the sub and get a real smooth finish.

You could do this over the styrofoam or over the ribs made with the luan as well. The way they make wooden boats. Actually the ribs could be easier than the styrofoam if you can't find it.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:02 pm

Make the U- boat out of balsa wood, that way you can cut and sand it easily, the storage and size issue can be addressed by building it so that it can be disassembled in sections.
There is a guy in my hometown that is trying to figure out how to build one in 1:18 scale. If you are going to do a cross section you can use 2 liter coke bottles for the compartments, you might have to cut a few of them up but from what I understand they are close to scale for the compartments. You might have to reinforce the plastic however.
And this is how he would do it.

And he's the same guy whos is Thinking about making a 1:18 WWII aircraft carrier the USS hornet or the intrepid. I tell him he has way to much time on his hands...LOL

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:16 am

Balsa is very expensive now a days. You can get the same results with the luan and bondo.

mrkisskissbangbang · Post by **mrkisskissbangbang** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:56 pm

The cutting.....use the hotwire for large cuts. I've used a utility knife/box cutter for the more precise cuts. One of the down sides is that the blades dull quite quickly.

Cheers