Best Modern Battle Tank - Military Channel

Philip · Post by **Philip** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:08 pm

Just watched a special on the Military Channel. What modern tank do you think is considered the best in the world? Mark on the poll. Poll will run for 7 days, then I will give the answer, according to the Military Channel. If you saw this, hold off on your answer so we can get some opinions. You can also comment if you want.

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:18 pm

easy.....Leopard II.

nfafan · Post by **nfafan** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:06 pm

Only 'cause it seen a bit more combat than my runner-up choice, the Chally 2 (which holds the record for longest tank vs. tank killshot).

The other two never got their skirts dirty in actual battles.

EDIT - and no, didn't see the TV show you speak of, so this is just MHO.

SuRrEaLNJ · Post by **SuRrEaLNJ** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:44 pm

Im goin with the Leopard

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:06 am

So what reason was given for the lack of consideration for the Merkava? Some hocum about "well, there's more to a tank than merely protection, armament, speed and manoueverability"...? I figure that a tank that carries its own infantry team is pretty effective (it eliminates the need for lesser APC/IFV vehicles, n'est ce pas?) among other reasons. Now, I'm not saying the Merk is the best- just that it shoulda oughta been on the list.

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:05 am

the biggest strike against the merkava is its weight. Makes airlifting out of the question and most bridges can't take it. Not a problem when you're fighting in the desert and have no intention of sending it elsewhere but a big drawback in a world of hotspots and potential hotspots where you made need to place your best armour.

It's well suited for what it was designed for but a bit too 'specialized'.

The swedish s tank was a fantastic vehicle in its day too but nobody else bought it, again because it was specialized for the defense of sweden and was not flexible enough in other regards.

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:39 am

As per good ole Wikkipedia: The Abrams, Challenger, Leopard-2 and Merkava all weigh in at 62.5-65 tons. The teeny little LeClerc at 56 tons. I don't see much difference here. Certainly nothing significant for either airlifting or bridge capacity.

WGP Klaus · Post by **WGP Klaus** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:26 am

On paper, Leopard 2....on the field of "battle", the Abrams and Chally.

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:24 am

well i saw the program in question and that's whay they said about the merkava. Not sure which version of merkava they were referring to. The rest of the show seemed pretty accurate, so i took them at their word.

I believe the Leopard II is universally acknowledged as the best tank in the world. It's also newer than the abrams, so that makes sense.

Knowing what i know, if i were going to war, i'd want to be in or command Leopard IIs over Abrams.

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:59 am

I probably didn't see this particular program because we have shut off our cable for about the past year. I may have seen it if was shown in 2005 or earlier, however. The last tank program I taped was a great one on the Challenger-2. These TV shows though usually tend to be open source, how many clips can we get the cheapest, typical TV programming and out-of-date as well. I have no idea when the show may have been actually made. We have to keep in mind that all equipment is constantly updated (as much as possible) to make use of the most modern technology and much of that not really accessible by the general public.

As for my favorite. I like the Merk-4 due to its appearance and ability to carry infantry.

I suppose that the LeClerc has two forward and eight reverse gears, making retreat easier. An advantage for the French. Might even come with automatic surrender. Another advantage. The Challenger is probably typical of British automotive design and leaks a lot of oil. All this information would be kept from public knowledge.

That leaves the Leopard-2 A6 and the Abrams A2+. While the L-2 has a slight speed advantage I think the Abrams is a bit better armored. Makes it a tough call, doesn't it? I understand that the Swedish L-2 is even better than the German version. Or at least that's how the Swedes would have it. I would ultimately pick the Abrams though- good old American engineering. So why do I drive a Camry?

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:47 am

would have preferred a response that didn't insult two different nations.

As for good ole american engineering. Well....

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:35 am

Insults or observations? Those may be considered as the very pinnacle of engineering achievement.
BTW: Thought I actually insulted three. If the Camry was built in the USA (which is likely) I probably insulted four.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:06 pm

Just for information sake. The Military Channel did a special a year or more ago, listing the Top Ten Tanks of All Time. The list is below from bottom to top. Drum roll please.

10. M4 Sherman
9. Merkava
8. T54/55
7. Challenger
6. PZIV
5. Centurian
4. Mark I(WWI)
3. Tiger I
2. M1 Abrams
1. T-34

The criteria was as follows:
1. Firepower and armor
2. Mobility
3. Ease of manufacture
3. Fear Factor

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:49 pm

Isn't that last three a TV show?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:49 am

I am going to give the "answer" Sunday night. It looks like only a few people are interested in voting, even though there were over 200 people viewing it. How about an educated guess? Interesting. Anyway, Sunday night I will post which tank the Military Channel said was the world's best.

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:13 am

Okay. I voted for the LeClerc. Why would I or anybody do such a thing, you ask? I refer to my prior post offering that the LeClerc represents the current French 'zeitgeist' and general military tactical (retreat) and strategic (surrender) doctrine. My guess is that the LeClerc stood up fairly well to the Muslim youth last Spring/Summer with very few being burnt-out in the rioting.

I did not see the show as we have eliminated our cable so this is purely a guess. It is not based on my own opinion of what the best of this bunch is, but rather what I think they think. What do you think they think? Isn't that the question anyway?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:02 am

All of these tanks were pretty impressive. It is interesting to note that there were not any "weaknesses" mentioned during the special - at least I don't remember them - I could have missed any criticism, since I was probably looking at my tanks with a magnifying glass, esp. 1/144. Also, these tanks have never battled each other, so, it's hard to say which one would win. Let's hope we never have to find out. Answer . . . . . tomorrow night.

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:14 pm

Just another "puff piece" on tanks, huh? Those tanks really have a great lobbying and PR arm, don't they? Were they lauded for their humanitarian work as well?

My favorite is still the Panther..... No humanitarian awards there-

http://www.amazingben.com/arf0066.html

Philip · Post by **Philip** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:15 am

It looks like the poll has run its course. So, here is the answer. According to the Military Channel, the best MBT in the world is . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . THE GERMAN LEOPARD 2!!!!!!!!!

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:29 am

Okay. So the tank lobby gets a pass. What was the basis on which they made this judgement? Just by the way. In what way are the L-2s good points generally better than each of its rivals? With eleven more tons to play with they could have enlarged and put a 120mm gun on a Panther.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:06 pm

The basis for their decision was "because they said so."

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:27 pm

"BECAUSE"?? Just "BECAUSE"???

Oh yeah. TV. Must be true. Because.....

I still want a Panther with a 120mm gun.

gehena · Post by **gehena** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:04 am

Somewhere I heard that the best "on paper" is the Leopard 2 but its biggest drawback is how expensive it is. This seems to be a repeating error on german design since the Tigers were excellent tanks (by far the best at their time) but couldn´t cope, at the end, with the thousands of worst but cheaper T34s

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:51 am

I would hasten to point out that while the Tiger had better armor all around the Panther's frontal armor was actually superior despite being 11 tons lighter. The long 75mm gun also had better penetration than the Tiger's 88. The Panther was also faster, more agile and manoueverable as well.

That said the Tiger was far and away the the best tank at the time of its introduction and for the year that followed said intro. It was built of the finest armor and piloted by elite crews chosen from the best of the still numerous veteran panzer troops. Sadly it was more than twice as expensive as the Panther (for example) and required many more hours of production time. Further it needed regular maintenance and lots of it as it was a great but fragile beastie. It was a perfect example of the brilliant yet delicate balance the engineering the German nation brought to and required of their ordnance production. Only 1350+/- were built over the course of two and a half years, an average of about two per day. Pretty pitiful. In any event it totally ruled for at least a year and when it came to sharing the crown the contender was another German tank.

This is a little off-topic, isn't it?

rose4472g · Post by **rose4472g** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:58 am

Philip wrote:Just for information sake. The Military Channel did a special a year or more ago, listing the Top Ten Tanks of All Time. The list is below from bottom to top. Drum roll please.

10. M4 Sherman
9. Merkava
8. T54/55
7. Challenger
6. PZIV
5. Centurian
4. Mark I(WWI)
3. Tiger I
2. M1 Abrams
1. T-34

The criteria was as follows:
1. Firepower and armor
2. Mobility
3. Ease of manufacture
3. Fear Factor

I saw this show as well. It came on after another tank show which pitted the Tiger and the Sherman against each other. Guess who won

The M4

Now look up at the list above

Ease of manufacture was heavily weighted on both shows. This is a false characteristic when comparing tank to tank. The number of tanks made of a given model
has far more to do with who made it than how hard to make it is. The US and Soviet Union were both making heavy tanks in excess of 1000 a month (M26, JS2) at the end of the war. Total Tiger production in over two years was approxamately 1500 (TIger I, II). How many Tiger Is could the US have built? And yes the US had the tech to built the Tiger.

And the last biggest problem with the above list, NO PANTHER

Four WWII tanks on the list, Panther beats them all go figure. What happens when a platoon of Panthers meets a platoon of M4s, PZIVs, or T-34s the Panthers Slaughter the lesser vehicals. The TIger is a better match up, but the Panther is the better genral Purpose tank.

I don't watch the History channel much, and when I do I often turn down the sound.

OOOPS! By the way I voted for the Abrams, first because it's been there and done that which the leo hasn't, second because of good old chauvanism, BUY AMERICAN

. I don't see a pennys worth of diffenrence between the Leo, Abrams, and Chally. As far as the Lecluck, who really cares

I do think it very odd indead to leave out the MERK, could it be the medias recent tendency to cast the Isreali's as the new Evil Empire. The Merkava has also been there and done that

Small Scale Military Headquarters

Best Modern Battle Tank - Military Channel

According to the Military C. - Best Modern Battle Tank

Best Modern Battle Tank - Military Channel

I'm going with the Abrams...

Merkava