Open Letter to Dragon and FOV concerning "Diecast"

[Philip]

Dear Sirs,

I would like to know what constitues "Diecast?" By diecast, I mean "metal" content. I have asked this question before on the forum and gotten some answers. However, I would like to hear from you. I am told that you monitor this forum. My problem is that it appears, at least in Dragon's case, that we are paying a nice price for basically a plastic product. Yes, the detail is wonderful, but is it really diecast metal? How much metal? Is this a reasonable price, even though it is plastic? Anyway, let's open up a discussion on this topic. I still love my Dragon tanks, and also like the FOV tanks. What say you?

[Philip]

Dear Sirs,

I would like to know what constitues "Diecast?" By diecast, I mean "metal" content. I have asked this question before on the forum and gotten some answers. However, I would like to hear from you. I am told that you monitor this forum. My problem is that it appears, at least in Dragon's case, that we are paying a nice price for basically a plastic product. Yes, the detail is wonderful, but is it really diecast metal? How much metal? Is this a reasonable price, even though it is plastic? I understand that FOV has more metal. Does this matter to anyone? Anyway, let's open up a discussion on this topic. I still love my Dragon tanks, and also like the FOV tanks. What say you?

"A man has got to know his limitations." Clint Eastwood.

[Tshintl]

Is this a reasonable price, even though it is plastic? I understand that FOV has more metal. Does this matter to anyone?

In my opinion the prices are good. Only a few dollars more than the regular plastic kits that require being built, painted and weathered.

It doesn't matter to me if FOV has more diecast or if Dragon has more diecast. What really matters to me is the quality (weathering, details, etc.) and the subject (what sort of tank).

I suppose in the end having more diecast would be a better thing, but I won't stop buying a companies products that I already like just because another company comes around using more diecast in their products. I'll just buy them all.

[DocTodd]

I prefer the FOV vehicles because they are more durable and can actually be handled without easily breaking. They are heavy and have alot of working parts that you don't find on other models like rolling treads and working suspensions on some tanks. The 1/72 planes are awesome especially for the price. They hold a candle to the more expensive Corgi's and others that I have seen. My 2 cents,
Todd

[hawkonevoodoo]

When a company advertises "die-cast", I expect to at least get 50% die-cast. I know you need some plastic if you want those very sharp crisp lines. However, if it means giving up 75% or more of the metal, then I'm very disappointed. Personally, rather than going in the direction that Dragon is going, with all the plastic, I prefer FOV. The casting might be a little rough in a few places but I know I'm getting what I paid for, no surprises. This means they are just what die-cast means, they are cast in metal. I'm sure next year FOV will have their Enthusiast series weathering improved, somewhere between the Action series and the Enthusiast series, both planes and AFVs.
I like the FOV grill work, it has actual depth to it, it looks like real grills. I like the idea of the commander and the antennae, the moving tracks. I like the idea of the turret being permanently fastened on, not just removable by lining up a notch.
The only minus I have with FOV is maybe their tools and tow cables should be molded separately or made of plastic and fastened to the tank when it is completed. This would make it possible to have every bit of the tank painted, no missed spots and the acessories would be colored when they are being made. This would add a little more depth and realism. Maybe there is a way they can make the tools and cables like Dragon does on their Panthers and Jagdpanthers for example.
I guess it all boils down to "what you expect and accept, or don't expect and don't accept in a die-cast model. I don't want plastic models, give me the die-cast that I collect.

[Tshintl]

On the Dragon website there is a picture showing a Dragon Armor tank unpainted so you can see the diecast and how they're made. Anyone know if there are any pictures like this of the FOV 1:72 series anywhere?

[hawkonevoodoo]

On the Dragon website there is a picture showing a Dragon Armor tank unpainted so you can see the diecast and how they're made. Anyone know if there are any pictures like this of the FOV 1:72 series anywhere?

The picture of the unpainted Jagdpanther was released over a year ago while Dragon models were still 50% or more metal. Since then they certainly have changed the content ratio. I'd like to see the same thing done with their latest E-100s. You can't consider the metal strip they add to the inside to give it some weight, as die-cast metal content.
FOV doesn't have a picture of a bare model showing metal and plastic content, at least not that I'm aware of. I will do my best to have FOV do one though and if they do I will post it or have them ad it to their company site. Either way, I'll post something about it.

[normandy]

Why don't they just call them "bi-cast" part plastic, part metal they go both ways

[hawkonevoodoo]

On the Dragon website there is a picture showing a Dragon Armor tank unpainted so you can see the diecast and how they're made. Anyone know if there are any pictures like this of the FOV 1:72 series anywhere?

The picture of the unpainted Jagdpanther was released over a year ago while Dragon models were still 50% or more metal. Since then they certainly have changed the content ratio. I'd like to see the same thing done with their latest E-100s. You can't consider the metal strip they add to the inside to give it some weight, as die-cast metal content.
FOV doesn't have a picture of a bare model showing metal and plastic content, at least not that I'm aware of. I will do my best to have FOV do one though and if they do I will post it or have them ad it to their company site. Either way, I'll post something about it.

FOV feels that by showing an unpainted model, so we can see the metal to plastic ratio, could be misleading in future releases. Depending on the model chosen to represent the display, the ratio could be different from any other present or future releases. If they show a model now, that has 95% metal and in the future they make one that is 85% or 80% metal, we will feel they misled us. If making models in die-cast was a process that consistently produced models with the exact same amount of metal and plastic every time, they would gladly display any one of their models showing the bare facts. You might say, they have nothing to hide.
If you own an FOV model, all you have to do is lift it, tap all around the model with something else that is metal, you will hear a definite difference when you tap plastic rather than metal. Disassemble the tank and see with your own eyes what is and isn't plastic. With it disassembled, you will be able to see if they have placed a small slab of steel inside the hull, to make up for the lack of weight when using so much plastic. I know another manufacturer that does this.

[tko211]

"bi-cast"..... dude, that cracked me up!

[normandy]

I just don't see the point, on most of the armor the upper hull is metal and the rest is plastic. I have 7 1/32nd tanks and 5 1/18th and I think their great models, being "die-cast" is not the reason I bought them it was the tank it self.
Anyone ever try cutting one of these bad boys up? What a pain in the I'm working on a custom 1/18th Panzer IV to a Jagdpanzer, I'll take plastic any day. Whether its "bi-cast" or "die-cast" good luck collecting.
Normandy.

[c44]

...just a few random thoughts & one gripe...I personally just want a cool looking & finely detailed vehicle (or a/c); I'm already too neurotic about too many other things to be concerned over the precise metal content...besides, as petroleum prices go up, the number of plastic components may eventually determine what makes the pricier toy (this is not too far-fetched, during the oil embargo in the '70s, some model companies --- Airfix, for instance --- really took it on the chin when the cost of raw materials spiked)...but FOV & 21CT, if you're gonna use plastic, please stop using that wilting & sometimes practically transparent crapola for guns & accessories...even the promo pictures for both these companies' products show droopy or mis-shapen machine guns (and this plastic only reponds partially to the hot water - cold water immersion trick)...the cost of a better grade plastic can't be that much of an issue...maybe we need Ditka & Bob Dole on the Quality Control team...