Marketing 101

[JeffSmith]

I have a BS degree in marketing and management, so when I make this small complaint/raint you guys at least know my credentials. Over many years I have saw different collectables come and go, one example: beanie babies but I can name a 1000 different ones. One hobby that I have saw remain a constant is sportscards!! The reason for their continued success is the companies were smart enough to build a foundation. This foundation was hobby shops, guys like me start hobby shops and card companies take care of the small guy. Example: all sportscard companies put a product called hobby product only found at hobby shops and retail which is found at walmart. The hobby product is always better, so that brings collectors to hobby stores. In return the hobby stores keep the hobby alive by trading/buying/selling older released cards, stocking new cards, and just in general gaining knowledge of all the products both present and past. Ok, so let me just get to my raint!!!!
I hope I have not lost my target audience at this point.. Please just here me out.
let me use 1/32 scale p-51 plane as the example: 21st century claims that 5000 of each paint scheme is produced. Lets say there are 4 different type paint schemes for a total of 20000 p-51 planes on the market. Instead of producing 5000 per paint scheme, why not up the production on 3 paint schemes to 6000 which is distributed to walmart, etc. And one paint scheme limit to 2000 which can only be found at hobby shops. The still produce 20000 planes and create a serious stir to get people to the hobby shop. In return, 21st century benefits greatly!! basically free advertisement in every hobby shop for their product, this in return gets new customers that are unaware of 21st century products (as I was until one wek ago and I am in the hobby business). A price guide for new and older products will be created as the hobby grows, collectors that have been in on the ground floor such as the ones at this site benefit greatly for several reasons. knowledge of the product becomes easier and as the market/ 21st century demand increases the planes that collectors already have become worth alot more as the number of collectors increase. Have I simply gone too far and lost everyone?

[JeffSmith]

My basic point to my last post is that I see serious potential that is not being utilized that can benefit both collector and company. I am not really sure why I am posting this other than I am in a constant fight between my marketing and collector personalities, lol. I see the mistakes many companies are making and to me it just seems so simple of a fix and many companies never get it!!!!

[Light.Inf.Scout]

You may have a point. There are many rants on here about the distribution (or lack of it) of 21C products. As I understand it, they are in a dire financial situation at this point and may not survive.

[JeffSmith]

Hello light,
I am unaware of 21st century's financial status but I see potential in this company. My business and collectible side wants to see them survive. If they took my advice their business would at least triple. It is just common sense, or marketing 101, find your target audience go after them and make sure your customers have some sort of benefits from collecting your product.

[JeffSmith]

Again, I have stated I am new to this hobby but not new to the hobby market. They need to have some knowledge of their own company, good god!!! I called asking about previous products and nobody had a clue to any of the past products they have distributed, they sent me here, which by the way I am glad they did. Instead of half-assed throwing things on the market, take some pride, think of the collector, know your product!!! If I ran that company, anyone that called would get the answers for which they are looking, good, bad, or ugly they get a correct answer!!! I would like to hear from people that agree or disagree with my theory. I always like to hear the other side as I could be wrong!!! Never been wrong before but there is a first for everything, lol..

[KAMIKAZE]

Jeff,

Don't try to be logical when discussing the marketing of these toys. You will upset the delicate balance between company starvation and customer revolt that the leading manufacturers have carefully nurtured up to this point in time.

Mark

[olifant]

Jeff,

Don't try to be logical when discussing the marketing of these toys. You will upset the delicate balance between company starvation and customer revolt that the leading manufacturers have carefully nurtured up to this point in time.

Mark

Kamikaze wins the daily sarcasm award! Well done Mark!

Jeff, 21C toys will drive you insane if you try to figure out their business strategy. Trust me, many fingers have been worn to bloody stubs furiously typing rants about pricing, choices of release, distribution and missed release dates.

You have come to the right place though to ask your questions and vent your frutstrations though. Come to think of it, you will fit right in!

[hotrodrock]

Hello light,
I am unaware of 21st century's financial status but I see potential in this company. My business and collectible side wants to see them survive. If they took my advice their business would at least triple. It is just common sense, or marketing 101, find your target audience go after them and make sure your customers have some sort of benefits from collecting your product.

If they would have taken a lot of our members advice, not just yours, they would have tripled their business.

[PanzerArm]

LOL, i remember they didn't even know about this site until i mentioned it to them at an IPMS show several years ago. They seem to embrace our little forum here now, but they never really did listen to us all that much. It's all about that mighty dollar, whether or not their base consumers approve or not.

[vmf214]

Oh yeah they knew about this site, someone was playing dumb I think. They used to occasionally monitor the old Groundpounder site according to a guy I talked to at 21st back when you could order direct from them and they knew GP retired and it moved to here. You're right though, they never listened to basically anyone. Convinced the Zero for example would be a dead duck...Bbi has done ok with it...better if they release the freakin' Solomons scheme already we were promised for Jan 08.

[tmanthegreat]

Yes, 21c usually defies the conventional logic of any toy company... It is not worth the effort to attempt to figure them out as many of us have been doing for years. I once heard from a credible source (another board member who heard it from TKO211 in a phone conversation) that the practices of 21c's current CEO is responsible for the odd decisions that ultimately ran the company into the ground - and that he had a history of doing it to other companies he had managed...

If you want more successful toy company examples, look at BBI or Unimax (Forces of Valor). BBI has a diverse product line of which their military collectables are only a small part. Unimax actually does something almost identiacal to what Jeff was describing with the Baseball cards. The FOV line has two "grades" to it, the Action Grade and Enthusiast Grade. Action Grade vehicles sell for cheaper, but come with fewer figures, accessoires, and have unweathered paint schemes. The Enthusiast grade products feature heavy weathering, more accessories and more figures. Enthusiast items almost exclusively sell to small retailers and hobbyshops while the action grade vehicles go to the mass retail stores. There have been a few instances, however, where enthusiast vehicles got packaged in Action grade boxes and distributed at the mass retailers... Over all, it seems to be working for them and while there has been a dearth of new vehicles this year and the prices have gone up, the company is still in business

[Dauntless]

I think it's good advice. A few toy companies do this whether it be Hot Wheels, Greenlight, GI Joe, Hasbro, Sideshow Toys.
Some are limited to hobby shops, have a limited online only ordering window, or exclusives to the major retailers. It usually creates a buzz and collector fever kicks in especially when there is a limited amount made. Even when there isn't a set number of exclusives, people will buy them just because they are Target, TRU, or Walmart exclusives (Star Wars)

Usually like in the case of 1:18 exclusive paint jobs on existing models, when they sell out, the price goes sky high, like in the case of the Pearl Harbor Zero, or Cripes "O" Mighty P-51. Heck even the regular 1:18 runs are going up because of rarity.

It can only help the hobby by those who are avid collectors, to buy limited editions they know will appreciate in value.

The flip side of creating limited runs of a certain model is that speculators buy them up even when they don't collect because they love them, but rather to turn a profit, but it can only help the manufacturer.

[olifant]

Don't get sucked into the "limited release exclusive paint schem" schtick. Trust me, if 21C, FOV and BBI could sell runs of 100K they would definitely produce them. I can't remember any given scheme quickly selling out either in the stores or online. That PH Zero was on clearance for some time and the only reason we had limited releases like the F/A-18 Red Devils, Blue Angels etc. was that BCA ponied up the cash to buy a run.

Now, a manufacturer may choose to "retire" a mold to create a buzz like FOV did with the Pershing. Or maybe they just damaged it or lost it. Who can truly tell? I think 21C would gladly re-release many of their old items if they could.

[JeffSmith]

I am really learning alot very fast from you guys, I appreciate the responses. I knew nothing about fov or bbi, tmans post had me scrambling to search the net. I have learned something from almost every post and i have been looking at many other posts on the site. After looking at fov website, they look like a company that has their sh## together at least somewhat anyway!!!! they offer a list of retired peices, and just in general seem to have the concept!!! can someone tell me if fov planes, tanks, etc are found at walmart, tru, etc? Are the prices of the fov equal to 21st century? and last question, which company offers the most detailed work on their pieces? I must also agree with another post I saw, if they could sell 100k peices they would produce them. I am speculating that these toys will have a larger following at some point, they need to make their way into hobby shops because that is where collectors of all types frequent. A larger following on these type of toys will really depend on the intelligence of the toy companies!! And as I mentioned fov looks like the company to me as long as they are limiting their production to a reasonable rate. If they make 100k of each toy then retire it, the toy is worthless because their will be plenty floating around long after retirement. I live in Tennessee, I searched all the Knoxville, oak ridge, and surrounding areas for these type toys. I found approximately 5 places that carry this type toy. The selection sucked!!! 4 of the places were tru and walmart, 1 hobby shop in the middle of nowhere actually carries these toys. This is a very large area with alot of collectors but having 2 or 3 peices at a walmart or tru will not get collectors onboard or even notice the collectible. I am calling fov as soon as I make this post to test their intelligence of the product, I will post my thoughts after my conversation with fov.

[JeffSmith]

ok i fogot they are on west coast time lol, it is about 5am west coast so i guess i need to wait a few hours unless I can find one of their home phone numbers, lol!! wake your azz up and answer my questions. That would go over well I am sure.

[Light.Inf.Scout]

FOV is found at TRU and Target- by me anyway. FOV is usually a good deal more expensive, but is generally better made and has more detail. If you are looking to expand into military collectibles, besides 21C - def look at FOV , BBI, and Dragon Models. You can look at other online stores to see what they carry.

[Dauntless]

Don't get sucked into the "limited release exclusive paint schem" schtick. Trust me, if 21C, FOV and BBI could sell runs of 100K they would definitely produce them. I can't remember any given scheme quickly selling out either in the stores or online. That PH Zero was on clearance for some time and the only reason we had limited releases like the F/A-18 Red Devils, Blue Angels etc. was that BCA ponied up the cash to buy a run.

Now, a manufacturer may choose to "retire" a mold to create a buzz like FOV did with the Pershing. Or maybe they just damaged it or lost it. Who can truly tell? I think 21C would gladly re-release many of their old items if they could.

I suppose you are right to a certain extent. I do know that when there are limited runs of exclusive paint schemes, and they are put on the web for a limited time frame window, they sell out within hours or even minutes. But that is super-popular items like Hot Wheels.

Things really gain value when they are sold out and people panic because they can't get them anymore like the PH Zero which can go over $200 on the secondary market.
I know that Bad Cat saved a few of their last exclusives and put them up for auction on ebay one at a time and let the bidders have at it. The ending prices were way above what they charged when items were "in stock". That's smart business even though I'm sure many collectors were not to happy about it.
So in a way they created a secondary market niche of their own.

[VMF115]

The only thing that I am surprised not to see is AT limited production F-86E Patricia raise in value.

[vmf214]

The only thing that I am surprised not to see is AT limited production F-86E Patricia raise in value.

Me too, it did there for just a little while about a year ago then nothing. The plain silver one as well as it was very limited. I think it was doomed simply because of the availability of 1/18 decals, especially for an F-86...nill.

[vmf214]

Yes, 21c usually defies the conventional logic of any toy company... It is not worth the effort to attempt to figure them out as many of us have been doing for years. I once heard from a credible source (another board member who heard it from TKO211 in a phone conversation) that the practices of 21c's current CEO is responsible for the odd decisions that ultimately ran the company into the ground - and that he had a history of doing it to other companies he had managed...

This guy isn't running ebay now too is he?