G'day All
As part of my M1A1 project and more or less for all my modern vehicles I've decided to make up sets of Combat Identification Panels (CIPs) in case you do not know what a CIP is, it is corrugated panel which is on the sides of the 21stCT M113.
CIPs are used for thermal recognition to avoid friendly fire, they do this by having thermal tape appliead to only one side which creates a thermal cold-spot when viewed through a thermal sight, turning the CIP system off is as simple as reversing the panels.
Anyway I have so far made two, the first one being a proof of concept to iron out the bugs in fabrication method and the second being the first actual usable prototype.
As I require up to three of these time consuming items per vehicle I could see this project becoming very tiresome even before the first one was completed, so I thought to myself that this is a perfect item for resin casting. So what I am thinking of doing is approaching John (John's Stuff) to make some up for me.
However before I do this I just wanted to check if anybody else already sells these items and if so where I can buy them?
If not, (and brace yourselves for some shameless market research here) would there be any interest in such an product if I was to get John to make them up for sale?
Combat Identification Panel (CIP)
Combat Identification Panel (CIP)
Last edited by Spudkopf on Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SPUD
Something's up with photobucket?????
Something's up with photobucket?????
G'day Chunks
You are absolutely right, but these days you do not see many shots of deployed US vehicles (Iraq, Afghanistan) without them. Besides I think they look kind off look cool on my models.
I am also thinking about making the bright orange material Air ID panels on my vehicles. Who needs camouflage anyway!
You are absolutely right, but these days you do not see many shots of deployed US vehicles (Iraq, Afghanistan) without them. Besides I think they look kind off look cool on my models.
I am also thinking about making the bright orange material Air ID panels on my vehicles. Who needs camouflage anyway!
SPUD
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grunt1
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I'm not aware of anyone that makes them. If John is not interested, you might also inquire with Build-o-rama. They do quite a bit in 1:18 accessories.
As far as interest level, it might be more appealing to the "masses" if you had more of an M1 realism kit. (Stowage, panels, antenna, whatever..) for say $10. That way everyone with a BBI Abrams would be a good target audience. Plus BOR already makes many of those items so they wouldn't all need to be from scratch.
Could see using same kit on LAV, Humvees, etc.. if it was done right.
As far as interest level, it might be more appealing to the "masses" if you had more of an M1 realism kit. (Stowage, panels, antenna, whatever..) for say $10. That way everyone with a BBI Abrams would be a good target audience. Plus BOR already makes many of those items so they wouldn't all need to be from scratch.
Could see using same kit on LAV, Humvees, etc.. if it was done right.
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G'day Grunt
Thankyou for your input, however I have already been in contact with John and he is going to cast some off for me. Seeing that he was probably going to be making then for me regardless anyway it was only as an afterthought that I decided to mention it here in case others where interested.
My key motivation for getting these cast in resin is that I am far to lazy to try and make multiple items to a consistent quality and as the number I that will require seeing I intend to hang them on the doors of my Hummers as well means I will be needing at least 10 to 20 to start with.
To this end I have also tried to make my CIP example as non vehicle specific as possible using the only measurement Google was able to provide of 24" x 30" gauging the rest of my design on the study of numerous images from books and the web. As such these CIPs should be able to be hung on anything from the bustle racks of an M1A1 to the door of a M1025 HMMWV and still look correct.
As far ariels go, I have been making custom sets for my own vehicles using 3mm extension spring, aluminium tube and thin steel rod (not to mention copious amounts of ‘Super’ or ‘Crazy’ glue), I use these materials so the ariels can be displayed in either the upright deployed position or tied down in the stowed position (to avoid overheads). Unfortunately due both to the time consuming fabrication method that I use and because the spring shape is not a truly accurate representation of the real deal I’m not contemplated making these for anything other than my own needs.
But you a very correct in your observation that a decent upgrade kit for the Abrams is indeed needed, heck I know I’d d buy one, however if I can find a reliable method to make ariels that look the part I will consider making some.
Thankyou for your input, however I have already been in contact with John and he is going to cast some off for me. Seeing that he was probably going to be making then for me regardless anyway it was only as an afterthought that I decided to mention it here in case others where interested.
My key motivation for getting these cast in resin is that I am far to lazy to try and make multiple items to a consistent quality and as the number I that will require seeing I intend to hang them on the doors of my Hummers as well means I will be needing at least 10 to 20 to start with.
To this end I have also tried to make my CIP example as non vehicle specific as possible using the only measurement Google was able to provide of 24" x 30" gauging the rest of my design on the study of numerous images from books and the web. As such these CIPs should be able to be hung on anything from the bustle racks of an M1A1 to the door of a M1025 HMMWV and still look correct.
As far ariels go, I have been making custom sets for my own vehicles using 3mm extension spring, aluminium tube and thin steel rod (not to mention copious amounts of ‘Super’ or ‘Crazy’ glue), I use these materials so the ariels can be displayed in either the upright deployed position or tied down in the stowed position (to avoid overheads). Unfortunately due both to the time consuming fabrication method that I use and because the spring shape is not a truly accurate representation of the real deal I’m not contemplated making these for anything other than my own needs.
But you a very correct in your observation that a decent upgrade kit for the Abrams is indeed needed, heck I know I’d d buy one, however if I can find a reliable method to make ariels that look the part I will consider making some.
SPUD
Something's up with photobucket?????
Something's up with photobucket?????
G’day All
Well there I was with what I thought was a pretty good master to use for casting. Bellow is a picture of my original static CIP.
Being a tad anal I decided to take another more look at my references mainly to confirm a suspicion that the rear side of the CIP frame, the side attached to the vehicle was a flat surface, my inspection of my references proved this fact to be true, however the closer I re-examined this material the more I began to see other details I had initially ignored and the less happy I became with my current CIP.
On the Abrams especially the corrugated part of the CIP slides into the frame a bit like a roller (garage type) door which allows it to be easily reversed as required as such the top of the CIP frame is open, however my CIP looked more like it had a picture frame around it, no biggie I thought all I have to do is make the frame look openish, yet once I began work on CIP Mk III I soon discovered just leaving the top open would not be good enough and three hours later with an hour of to watch “Top Gear” (the UK’ers will know what I’m talking about) here is the result a Dynamic CIP
CIP in the active position
CIP Removed
CIP in the passive position
Both the static and dynamic CIP models
The advantages of making the CIP in two parts is not only the ability to have the CIP displayed in either active or passive positions, but I have also noted that on some soft skins that only the corrugated part of the CIP is used.
The US army CIP info sheets also show this method, including hanging the corrugated component on the brush bar (locally called a bull bar) of the hummers:
https://www.logsa.army.mil/WEB-PAGE/200 ... -15.pdf%22
https://www.logsa.army.mil/WEB-PAGE/200 ... -05.pdf%22
I have just a little more cleaning up to do on the CIP Mk III before I can post both examples of my CIPs off to John for casting, but hope to do this today.
Well there I was with what I thought was a pretty good master to use for casting. Bellow is a picture of my original static CIP.
Being a tad anal I decided to take another more look at my references mainly to confirm a suspicion that the rear side of the CIP frame, the side attached to the vehicle was a flat surface, my inspection of my references proved this fact to be true, however the closer I re-examined this material the more I began to see other details I had initially ignored and the less happy I became with my current CIP.
On the Abrams especially the corrugated part of the CIP slides into the frame a bit like a roller (garage type) door which allows it to be easily reversed as required as such the top of the CIP frame is open, however my CIP looked more like it had a picture frame around it, no biggie I thought all I have to do is make the frame look openish, yet once I began work on CIP Mk III I soon discovered just leaving the top open would not be good enough and three hours later with an hour of to watch “Top Gear” (the UK’ers will know what I’m talking about) here is the result a Dynamic CIP
CIP in the active position
CIP Removed
CIP in the passive position
Both the static and dynamic CIP models
The advantages of making the CIP in two parts is not only the ability to have the CIP displayed in either active or passive positions, but I have also noted that on some soft skins that only the corrugated part of the CIP is used.
The US army CIP info sheets also show this method, including hanging the corrugated component on the brush bar (locally called a bull bar) of the hummers:
https://www.logsa.army.mil/WEB-PAGE/200 ... -15.pdf%22
https://www.logsa.army.mil/WEB-PAGE/200 ... -05.pdf%22
I have just a little more cleaning up to do on the CIP Mk III before I can post both examples of my CIPs off to John for casting, but hope to do this today.
SPUD
Something's up with photobucket?????
Something's up with photobucket?????
G'day Ogravl
We are a couple of seansons behind down here, but I think it was Season 6 Episode 7. In a nutshell Jeremy and the Stig took a new TVR Sagaris for a spin, then Jeremy raced a Fiat Panda against a marathon runner around the London Marathon circuit during the morning rush-hour. Richard went to the Nürburgring to see if Sabine Schmitz could do a lap of the infamous track in a Transit van in under 10 minutes. She did it in 10.08.
I'm not really a much of a petrol-head but I love the comedy and in your face presentation of the show.
This show alternates in the same time slot with Myth Busters.
We are a couple of seansons behind down here, but I think it was Season 6 Episode 7. In a nutshell Jeremy and the Stig took a new TVR Sagaris for a spin, then Jeremy raced a Fiat Panda against a marathon runner around the London Marathon circuit during the morning rush-hour. Richard went to the Nürburgring to see if Sabine Schmitz could do a lap of the infamous track in a Transit van in under 10 minutes. She did it in 10.08.
I'm not really a much of a petrol-head but I love the comedy and in your face presentation of the show.
This show alternates in the same time slot with Myth Busters.
SPUD
Something's up with photobucket?????
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steelbonnet
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exether_mega
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G’day All
Ja and Phil thanks for the comments, I have the CIPs bundled up in a bubble wrap envelope addressed and ready to go to the post office this morning.
Until John receives them we have no idea if the two part CIP will be able to be successfully caste, but if all goes well the aim will be to sell them in sets of three. The resin colours I have to choose from are tan, white and black and I have asked John to do them in tan at this time.
I am also sending along to John a PTE Steel Jerry-Can that I have carved and sanded to look like a plastic Jerry-Can, as I have noted that the US Army (3 Inf Div) carried many of these on each vehicle during the 2003 war (Thunder Run).
In the Australian Defence Force (ADF) these Jerry-Cans are only used for carrying water and traditional steel Jerry-Cans (which are still modelled on the German WWII pattern) are used for fuel transport.
Does anybody know if the same holds true for the US, in that plastic is only used for water transport?
Ogravl, I think that was either last season or the one before, by the way the marathon racer won by about ten minutes
Ja and Phil thanks for the comments, I have the CIPs bundled up in a bubble wrap envelope addressed and ready to go to the post office this morning.
Until John receives them we have no idea if the two part CIP will be able to be successfully caste, but if all goes well the aim will be to sell them in sets of three. The resin colours I have to choose from are tan, white and black and I have asked John to do them in tan at this time.
I am also sending along to John a PTE Steel Jerry-Can that I have carved and sanded to look like a plastic Jerry-Can, as I have noted that the US Army (3 Inf Div) carried many of these on each vehicle during the 2003 war (Thunder Run).
In the Australian Defence Force (ADF) these Jerry-Cans are only used for carrying water and traditional steel Jerry-Cans (which are still modelled on the German WWII pattern) are used for fuel transport.
Does anybody know if the same holds true for the US, in that plastic is only used for water transport?
Ogravl, I think that was either last season or the one before, by the way the marathon racer won by about ten minutes
SPUD
Something's up with photobucket?????
Something's up with photobucket?????
G'day All
Just an update on the CIPs, John has received them and has told me they should be easy to cast up, so I'll let you know when I get my first copies.
As prep work for the coming CIPs I have shifted the storage bins located on the bustle rack of my Abrams 5mm or so each to the left and right as required. Before I did this I confirmed through Google and other references that this was not an unreasonable change and from what I could find the were example of these bins being on the extreme outer limits of the bustle racks and even moved to the sides of turrets. The move is necessary to enable enough room to attach the rear CIP directly to the middle of the bustle rack itself.
As an FYI, all but one of the storage bins where fairly easy to remove. I did this by using a broad flat bladed screw driver to lever them off their plugs. For the most part this was easy to do as there was little glue holding them in place.
The width of the plugs was then reduced by half and the off cuts used to plug up the now oversize holes of the bins which also automatically realigned the bins to either the left or right as required.
However as previously stated one of them seemed to have got all the glue that the others where missing as a result bin had to be cut away with a blade. A word of advice for those who may also need to cut a storage bin away from a bustle rack, is that there is high potential of injury as the soft plastic is initially quite resistant to cutting, but then will all of a suddenly just give! I have many a customised scars on my hands from simular model related work. But you will be glad to know that I got away with it injury free this time.
If I have time I will take and then post an image of the repositioned storage bins – yes I know a lot of this should probably be in the custom section of the forum, however I just trying to avoid multiple threads and keep you informed about the CIP project itself, Aferguson if you feel that is where this thread belongs please do not hesitate to move it.
Just an update on the CIPs, John has received them and has told me they should be easy to cast up, so I'll let you know when I get my first copies.
As prep work for the coming CIPs I have shifted the storage bins located on the bustle rack of my Abrams 5mm or so each to the left and right as required. Before I did this I confirmed through Google and other references that this was not an unreasonable change and from what I could find the were example of these bins being on the extreme outer limits of the bustle racks and even moved to the sides of turrets. The move is necessary to enable enough room to attach the rear CIP directly to the middle of the bustle rack itself.
As an FYI, all but one of the storage bins where fairly easy to remove. I did this by using a broad flat bladed screw driver to lever them off their plugs. For the most part this was easy to do as there was little glue holding them in place.
The width of the plugs was then reduced by half and the off cuts used to plug up the now oversize holes of the bins which also automatically realigned the bins to either the left or right as required.
However as previously stated one of them seemed to have got all the glue that the others where missing as a result bin had to be cut away with a blade. A word of advice for those who may also need to cut a storage bin away from a bustle rack, is that there is high potential of injury as the soft plastic is initially quite resistant to cutting, but then will all of a suddenly just give! I have many a customised scars on my hands from simular model related work. But you will be glad to know that I got away with it injury free this time.
If I have time I will take and then post an image of the repositioned storage bins – yes I know a lot of this should probably be in the custom section of the forum, however I just trying to avoid multiple threads and keep you informed about the CIP project itself, Aferguson if you feel that is where this thread belongs please do not hesitate to move it.
SPUD
Something's up with photobucket?????
Something's up with photobucket?????
G'day Grognard
Thankyou very much for the all the info, yes I gathered from the images I had seen that these were in fact ammo cans, it was just that seeing how BBI had gone to all the trouble of painting abbreviated crew position labels on them, I assumed that they may have been some kind of standard kit for the M1A's.
As to the arti-canisters, having looked closely at BBI's mouldings, that is what I had already concluded they might be, but I could not see why as all the rounds are carried internally they where needed on the tanks (thanks for putting me straight with that).
The examples of these tubes that I have seen in use by the Australian Defence Forces (ADF) are made from a green PVC plastic, is this also the case for the US items? I know you said their use in more a European thing but if they were to be carried on desert schemed vehicles would SOP dictate that they get repainted or do they as with so many other US gear these days now also now come in tan?
Seeing you have experience in regards to stowage items, perhaps you can answer my previous question in regards to the plastic jerry cans carried on US vehicles, in that as far as the ADF is concerned (well at least when I was a member) they are only used to carry water while metal cans are used to store fuel, to avoid the risk of contamination through confusion.
I have also noticed in a lot of images that tank crews operating in Iraq also appear to carry ice coolers (we call them Eski's down here and in NZ the call them Chilly Bins), what do they use these for? it would be nice if it was to keep the beer cold but I doubt it
Thankyou very much for the all the info, yes I gathered from the images I had seen that these were in fact ammo cans, it was just that seeing how BBI had gone to all the trouble of painting abbreviated crew position labels on them, I assumed that they may have been some kind of standard kit for the M1A's.
As to the arti-canisters, having looked closely at BBI's mouldings, that is what I had already concluded they might be, but I could not see why as all the rounds are carried internally they where needed on the tanks (thanks for putting me straight with that).
The examples of these tubes that I have seen in use by the Australian Defence Forces (ADF) are made from a green PVC plastic, is this also the case for the US items? I know you said their use in more a European thing but if they were to be carried on desert schemed vehicles would SOP dictate that they get repainted or do they as with so many other US gear these days now also now come in tan?
Seeing you have experience in regards to stowage items, perhaps you can answer my previous question in regards to the plastic jerry cans carried on US vehicles, in that as far as the ADF is concerned (well at least when I was a member) they are only used to carry water while metal cans are used to store fuel, to avoid the risk of contamination through confusion.
I have also noticed in a lot of images that tank crews operating in Iraq also appear to carry ice coolers (we call them Eski's down here and in NZ the call them Chilly Bins), what do they use these for? it would be nice if it was to keep the beer cold but I doubt it
SPUD
Something's up with photobucket?????
Something's up with photobucket?????
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steelbonnet
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