Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by Innuendoh » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:15 am

The campaign hasn't been doing too well this last week and a half.

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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by Axis Nightmare » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:08 am

Those figures are quite a leap ahead of what was previously offered from 21st Century and the like. They are a bit pricey but you get what you pay for. They will likely have the effect of making all the other figures look really bad. I couldn't see having their Japanese examples next to the really bad 21st Century pieces with the tiny heads and over sized bodies and the exaggerated robot like articulation joints.

With that said.... A commentary...

I've poured over the Marauder website. The "kickstarter" events are new to me. It's an interesting marketing technique. The skeptic in me threw up some red flags almost instantly. These kickstarters seem to display some of the characteristics of Ponzi schemes. The June 2019 :shock: delivery date was quite a stunner. It appears your money is not paying for your figures you expect over a year from now. You are paying for someone else's figures that came before you and possibly to some extent for tooling and such for your figures. Your figures even being produced depends on many more people entering the campaign to keep funds flowing in order to pay for yours. Otherwise, why wouldn't your figures be produced and delivered June, 2018 instead of 2019? If you are in at the start of a Ponzi, pyramid or other similar scheme you are in good shape--at least for now. However, the campaign being described as slowing down could be a bad sign. To continue being successful, there has to be an equal or greater number of new investors adding to the campaign or many current participants increasing their pledges. The question is, how many more enthusiasts are out there that haven't already gotten involved? How long can this be kept up? Marauder will have to come up with more new and exciting items to offer the "next campaign" or the funds for yours will dry up. Ponzi schemes always eventually collapse when new participation dries up. It can be from the company getting greedy and in way over their heads, poor administration or plain dishonesty.

This program seems to be working well and hopefully they will be cautious and smart with their programs and continue producing for a long time. Probably less risk than the stock market. I wish all involved success. The figures are super. I could be completely wrong about this but my skeptical personality would advise keeping an eye out for red flags. Just something to consider. I didn't see any money back guarantees or promises of refunds on their site. I apologize if I missed it.
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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by flayrah » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:13 am

Axis Nightmare wrote:Those figures are quite a leap ahead of what was previously offered from 21st Century and the like. They are a bit pricey but you get what you pay for. They will likely have the effect of making all the other figures look really bad. I couldn't see having their Japanese examples next to the really bad 21st Century pieces with the tiny heads and over sized bodies and the exaggerated robot like articulation joints.

With that said.... A commentary...

I've poured over the Marauder website. The "kickstarter" events are new to me. It's an interesting marketing technique. The skeptic in me threw up some red flags almost instantly. These kickstarters seem to display some of the characteristics of Ponzi schemes. The June 2019 :shock: delivery date was quite a stunner. It appears your money is not paying for your figures you expect over a year from now. You are paying for someone else's figures that came before you and possibly to some extent for tooling and such for your figures. Your figures even being produced depends on many more people entering the campaign to keep funds flowing in order to pay for yours. Otherwise, why wouldn't your figures be produced and delivered June, 2018 instead of 2019? If you are in at the start of a Ponzi, pyramid or other similar scheme you are in good shape--at least for now. However, the campaign being described as slowing down could be a bad sign. To continue being successful, there has to be an equal or greater number of new investors adding to the campaign or many current participants increasing their pledges. The question is, how many more enthusiasts are out there that haven't already gotten involved? How long can this be kept up? Marauder will have to come up with more new and exciting items to offer the "next campaign" or the funds for yours will dry up. Ponzi schemes always eventually collapse when new participation dries up. It can be from the company getting greedy and in way over their heads, poor administration or plain dishonesty.

This program seems to be working well and hopefully they will be cautious and smart with their programs and continue producing for a long time. Probably less risk than the stock market. I wish all involved success. The figures are super. I could be completely wrong about this but my skeptical personality would advise keeping an eye out for red flags. Just something to consider. I didn't see any money back guarantees or promises of refunds on their site. I apologize if I missed it.

I find this very interesting and insightful. I don't suspect a Ponzi scheme per se - Marauder has been as open and straight-forward as can be expected from any company (and has been the only recent 1:18 Kickstarter to reply to any email - which to me is a red flag - if an organization doesn't show enough interest to reply to a customer, that's not an organization I want to support.) I do wonder about the financing of each of these companies - not just Marauder - and if the funding of past programs could be tied through the funding of new programs. If so I don't necessarily believe this is a 'scheme' but an accepted method to keep the process moving - just as larger companies would sell stock, or get a bank loan, to keep their organizations in the black. Is not stating ''your funding NOW will help us in ALL our projects" a scheme? I can't say.

What is a red flag to me is the cancellation of the solid color figures. I was looking forward to these; I understand others were more interested in those than in the more realistic figures and have been 'requesting' the solids. But for all the currently unlocked figures, wouldn't it be less expensive to produce those in solid color, than fully-painted? Wouldn't there be the potential for greater revenue, resulting from lower production costs, on the solid colors, leading to, in my mind, what should be more emphasis on the solids rather than removing them? Why not move them forward in the series, requiring less funding to unlock, leading to a heightened feeling of 'progress' in the campaign and as they would probably cost less to manufacture, leaving more funding for fully-painted figures?

I placed my pledge early but am disappointed in some of the adjustments to the campaign. Depending on what happens before the end of the Kickstarter, I may have to re-consider my pledge.

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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by Axis Nightmare » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:16 pm

I only mentioned the word "scheme" as it relates to illegal financial industry Ponzi schemes and some of the characteristics that are similar. Heck, Social Security is a near Ponzi scheme. What I paid in for 45+ years is long gone. I'm receiving my SSI from what young guys are putting in now. Pension plans seem to have a huge problem meeting their commitments too.

It 's obviously a popular and legal marketing technique and also obviously can be successful at least to a point. Some of the "adjustments" you mentioned could be red flags or smart financial decisions. Time will tell.
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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by Razor17019 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:31 pm

Axis Nightmare wrote: These kickstarters seem to display some of the characteristics of Ponzi schemes. The June 2019 :shock: delivery date was quite a stunner. It appears your money is not paying for your figures you expect over a year from now. You are paying for someone else's figures that came before you and possibly to some extent for tooling and such for your figures. Your figures even being produced depends on many more people entering the campaign to keep funds flowing in order to pay for yours.
Axis,
Your words reminded me a scene in one of my favorite movies, "It's a Wonderful Life":

INT. OUTER OFFICE - BUILDING AND LOAN - DAY

MEDIUM CLOSE SHOT

More people have crowded around the counter. Their muttering
stops and they stand silent and grim. There is panic in their
faces.

GEORGE
Now, just remember that this thing
isn't as black as it appears.

As George speaks, sirens are heard passing in the street
below. The crowd turn to the windows, then back to George.

GEORGE
I have some news for you, folks.
I've just talked to old man Potter,
and he's guaranteed cash payments at
the bank. The bank's going to reopen
next week.

ED
But, George, I got my money here.

CHARLIE
Did he guarantee this place?

GEORGE
Well, no, Charlie. I didn't even ask
him. We don't need Potter over here.

Mary and Ernie have come into the room during this scene.
Mary stands watching silently.

CHARLIE
I'll take mine now.

GEORGE
No, but you... you... you're thinking
of this place all wrong. As if I had
the money back in a safe. The money's
not here. Your money's in Joe's
house...
(to one of the men)
...right next to yours. And in the
Kennedy house, and Mrs. Macklin's
house, and a hundred others. Why,
you're lending them the money to
build, and then, they're going to
pay it back to you as best they can.
Now what are you going to do?
Foreclose on them?

Axis - you are sounding a little like Charlie... :D
Razor
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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by Fritzkrieg » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:09 pm

Axis,
I have invested in 3 of the Marauder Campaigns, they have come through with everything promised so far. They are great guys, and far better at managing these Kickstarters then some others I have invested in. If you like the figures but our nervous Just put in for 1 or 2. I've put in full Mayhem on this one, because I'm sure it's going to pay off.

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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by Axis Nightmare » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:59 pm

Razor17019 wrote:
Axis Nightmare wrote: These kickstarters seem to display some of the characteristics of Ponzi schemes. The June 2019 :shock: delivery date was quite a stunner. It appears your money is not paying for your figures you expect over a year from now. You are paying for someone else's figures that came before you and possibly to some extent for tooling and such for your figures. Your figures even being produced depends on many more people entering the campaign to keep funds flowing in order to pay for yours.
Axis,
Your words reminded me a scene in one of my favorite movies, "It's a Wonderful Life":

Axis - you are sounding a little like Charlie... :D
Razor
:lol: Did you have that memorized?

My old boss always said I over analysed things. This is likely an example. I looked at it without excitement or emotion for the product and somewhat clinically. As I said, it's just something to consider.

Those Japanese figures sure are tempting assuming they do look like the prototypes. Just don't know if I'd still be interested a year and three months from now. :roll:
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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by B17Fortress » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:28 pm

They just added and unlocked this gent:

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Looks good! I wonder how much else they have up their sleeve, but I would have hoped they would have given this last minute slot to a Soviet or Brit.
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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by Fritzkrieg » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:44 pm

Mayhem is now up to 64 figures. The Avg Cost for the Mayhem Level is now $15.61 per figure. That's a great Deal.

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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by MUDHEN336 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:27 pm

I agree. The Mayhem package is the way to go. The detail on these figures take this hobby to a new level. Why pay $20-$25 for a 21st Century figure on EBay when you can pay much less for a far superior sculpt.
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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by Innuendoh » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:14 pm

It's a shame they didn't put out some tank crew figures. Think about how many Sherman, Tiger and Panther tanks are out in circulation, not to mention the custom tanks that have been made in 1/18.

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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by normandy » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:08 am

Tank Crew! I think thats a great idea!!

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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by Winterstar » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:40 pm

It's pretty much exactly what it says on the tin- the money collected during this Kickstarter is to fund the toolings for the upcoming line of figures. The release date of next year reflects that for those buying figures for which there are no toolings developed yet that it is a lengthy process, especially when dealing with overseas manufacturing. Or in other words, there is no way that a Kickstarter for a new product could collect funds in April and have that product to consumers three months later if the product was still in the development cycle. And the funds from this campaign are to pay for the costs of this campaign. Whether or not figures from this campaign are delivered are not dependent on the success of the next campaign- the next campaign will be for whatever products they wish to tool up next.

I'd rather them warn "its a year out" than give an overfly optimistic date that will then slip 4 times.

Also, John has stated that he intends to try to make the solid color figures available in some form or another.

While I'm not the biggest fan of Kickstarter things, three minor but well-received toy companies have all used them to great effect using the same model that this one is following (Boss Fight Studios, Four Horsemen, and Marauder Task Force). At this point, it's pretty much a proven "raising funds for toolings" methodology.

The major thing to remember is that they are basically getting people to commit money to produce the toolings that they want with the pre-purchase of action figures for those toolings. While the "first wave" of figures is likely at a much lower profit margin in order to pay for the toolings, as subsequent usages of those molds (to restock the website with figures that they can sell for nigh unto forever) have the toolings paid for, with money literally already in the bank.

In short, they pre-sell you their product at retail price to subsidize the production costs, deliver you your product, then go on to keep selling more product after the fact.

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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by flayrah » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:06 pm

Winterstar wrote:It's pretty much exactly what it says on the tin- the money collected during this Kickstarter is to fund the toolings for the upcoming line of figures. ...

Also, John has stated that he intends to try to make the solid color figures available in some form or another....

In short, they pre-sell you their product at retail price to subsidize the production costs, deliver you your product, then go on to keep selling more product after the fact.
All valid information, but 'in some form or other' doesn't encourage program support for possible paint variations of designs that have already been funded. For argument, let's say all I was interested in was the solid color figures; in fact, lets say I was so interested that early on I pledged Mayhem level and my entire objective was to select 50 solids. Well, now the only choice I have (if funding reaches that level) is the green US trooper - and 50 of one type, when originally there was the potential of three or five or more different types is quite a letdown.
But the solids may still be produced later, and available on the website! Which means that if they had not been removed, I would at Mayhem level be paying $15 or less for each; but later on the website they are likely to be $20 or $25. This does not inspire me to keep my Mayhem level, or even potentially to pledge at all.

I'm not hung up on the solids, in fact I was interested but there are other great choices at every level. All I'm saying is that by removing a distinctive portion of the program - something unique that could have appealed to a specific audience and probably would have been less expensive to produce than the fully-detailed figures; seems to be alienating potential supporters, just days before the program ends, and for no specific reason.

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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by B17Fortress » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:34 pm

Image

From facebook: "Here are some samples of the MTF WWII figures with applied insignia decals. We will release a wide variety of decals with the figures. These are early samples, but hope you agree the decals add a nice touch to the figures!"
Image

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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by Winterstar » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:46 am

flayrah wrote:
All I'm saying is that by removing a distinctive portion of the program - something unique that could have appealed to a specific audience and probably would have been less expensive to produce than the fully-detailed figures; seems to be alienating potential supporters, just days before the program ends, and for no specific reason.
Agreed there. From what I can tell, the biggest source of feedback they've gotten has more or less been "we don't like the solid colored figures, we want the British and Russians" which, while I admit I'd love those figs, I understood the original ordering of the stretch goals and found them perfect logical and coherent.

The solid figures were a great "some folks will love these" items that helped pad out the stretch goals while allowing for wise resource allocation.

Though I have a suspicion they might be made available in the backerkit, but that is just my intution.

But we are in the last 48 hours. Now is the time that the big unlocks happen. I'm hopeful, but not too hopeful. North Africa campaign troops would both be great and yet I can hear my wallet screaming if we get there.

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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by dannyc » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:45 pm

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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by B17Fortress » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:56 pm

We've got our Brits and Soviets! Finally, the time has come.
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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by grunt1 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:30 pm

Yeah, that was a great way to finish it up!


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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by flayrah » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:39 pm

Just completed the Russians, that worked out very well. I suspect some increased their bids at the last minute just to complete that team.

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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by Fritzkrieg » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:27 pm

Very happy with the results. Picklehaube may want to dust off his T-34 molds. Those Russian tankers are going to need something to drive.

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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by normandy » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:35 pm

I like the idea of the decal insignia, hopefully some for the helmets as well.

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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by YT » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:51 pm

Man I wish I had known the ruskies were unlocked, I would have backed it!
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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by Axis Nightmare » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:19 pm

MUDHEN336 wrote:I agree. The Mayhem package is the way to go. The detail on these figures take this hobby to a new level. Why pay $20-$25 for a 21st Century figure on EBay when you can pay much less for a far superior sculpt.
WoW! I just looked at eBay and they are asking serious $$ for figures like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/21st-Century-T ... 3A15044f18


Image

I think I'm ready to sell mine! :wink:
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Re: Marauder Task Force WWII Kickstarter

Post by Jesse James » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:12 pm

I last minute backed this just to have my foot in the door to get some of the unlocks quickly. With the Jabba Sailbarge, my toy budget was blown up this year unexpectedly and so I had to pick/choose. I'd have loved to have gone Mayhem on this though as it was fantastic and still is a fantastic line. What's great about Marauder is it's available later with their store and you can buy as finances allow. Things like Boss Fight have sold out never to return, and that's frustrating and deterred me from jumping into their line more.

Marauder runs things pretty perfectly.

Dime Novel Legends is the only other line I'm backing right now then, and will in the future. Historical stuff has my $.
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Now Hasbro, make us some Head Sculpt & Endor Uniform variations! The new Rebel Fleet Trooper gets the JJ Seal of Approval Though!

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