Considering a New Direction

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Axis Nightmare
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Considering a New Direction

Post by Axis Nightmare » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:32 pm

The inspiration from the scale modelers show (see 1/32 and Smaller Forum)
has lead me to a new direction. The detail and accuracy of the scale models is so much better than many of our 1/18 "toys" that I'm going to start building seriously again. Got winter projects in hand already. I will be thinning the herd of all but the most scale model like of my planes. The P-40s, most of the P-51s and P-47s and others can go. I've always liked the Corsairs. They have flaws but at least can pass for a true scale model. I don't need 9 Mustangs. I may keep a couple to try to get more accurate landing gear and such modified. I've already gotten rid of my P-38s. I don't need 3 F-104s. I'm keeping the Camo one. I like the ME 262s. They are excellent save a few minor details such as the main gear doors, a relatively easy fix. The F-86's are good, I'll keep them and the MiGs. I've got too many 190Ds. If the 190A is a reality, that will fill the void. The inaccurate canopy on my Cat's mouth Hellcat is a deal breaker on that too. I've been mulling over this for some time now.

I like 1/6 stuff too but the "toy" versions without MAJOR modifications show the flaws even more with their size. The Jeeps and Kubelwagens are the most disapointing. The 1/6 21st C. Kubel is all wrong. Jeeps from Hasbro and 21st C. are a disaster from the grill and fenders down despite looking nice from above. Again, they are just not right. Paint jobs and details on all the above is "lipstick on the pig". It can distract from the flaws for a while but underneath it's still a pig. Same goes for the 1/6 figures with the huge zippers, snaps and buttons that are completely out of scale. My 1/18 armor and vehicles greatly outnumber my planes. So many of them are really good models. The Jeeps and Kubels really make the 1/6 versions look worse, they are that good. Yes, I'm being picky but the final factor is I'm more interested in scale models than toys. It really came down to that. Sorry for the long rambling. :oops:
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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by teebird » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:20 pm

Axis! Are u going over to the dark side? The rivet counters modeling society? (IPMS!) I understand what you are saying in all seriousness. Some of the execution on these 1/18 topics is on the toy side of things. That said, can you imagine how much a TAMIYA 1/18 P-38 KIT would cost?!?!!? I have quite a number of 1/18 planes I purchased on clearance at Wally town and Toys r us that were on clearance well below $40 each:) I was willing to overlook the lack of accuracy in many cases at those prices!! Part of the fun for me has been the impressive display size, a throwback to my childhood (GI Joe figure size) and the not all that perfect scale and detail. I actually like the not so perfectly done topics (FW-190D) as a bit "toyish" They're fun! Not too serious and they overall look great:) I have loved and loathed the paint schemes chosen by the manufacturers but my airbrush and decal printer have fixed the ones I really couldn't stand. Anyways, I get what you're saying but if you take all the fun and simplicity out of your hobby it can become quite a lot of WORK!! I like my models to run the range from "fun and toyish" to serious rivet counting efforts. Picking and choosing which ones to go nuts on detailing and reprinting is part of the fun for me:) so until Hasegawa and SWS come out with mind blowing 1/18 kits I'll keep enjoying the somewhat goofy but still fun 1/18 toy/models:) the great thing about this hobby is it truly benefits from modelers making rivet count masterpieces to the average guy just enjoying the camaraderie of a common interest of just collecting and trading what is commercially produced. All points on the compass are valid and needed! I will be excited to keep tabs on your uber accurate efforts. Just my 2 cents. Warmest regards and best wishes on the new direction!

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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by Coreyeagle48 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:08 pm

Dennis:

I quite honestly feel much the same way.

I have loved 1/18 but the releases it seems have gotten much more expensive, have some quality control gaffs an item so much shouldn't have and I am out of display space and room. I took am slowly starting to sell off my 1/18.

Really not a fan of building models but I may try collecting some 1/72 things. :)

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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by B-29 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:45 am

Or you could come to the RC side.. :D . We have models now that are fairly affordable, and similarly detailed to 1/18 except that they actually fly! I have pretty much moved on from 1/18 to fund the RC fleet.
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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by granch » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:17 pm

Well, for me, I'll keep in the 1/18th scale. Of course, many vehicles and flying objects are not perfect. But the toyish caracter is easily erased with just some minor work like repainting and adding small details much mor easily than in the 1/87 (HO), 1/72 or 1/144scale. I've made a lot of 1/72 planes when I was young, but it is too small to have a look INTO the models. With 1/18 helos and planes, I can slip a small mirror into the model and get a "real" inner sight view (and for ths reason, I'll keep an exception, the F-15 cockpit of BBI). I've had as a child a rather big collection of 1/32 figures. They are toys, painting them is a monk job, and they are rigid, nothing to do to change their posture, you can only move them forward and back and left and right and that's all. Now I have a big 1/18 army and it is still a pleasure for me to change their attitude and painting or modifying some small stuff is much more easy. Can you place 10 soldiers in a Blackhawk when it is 1/72??? even any pilot has to be articulated to bring it right in place or to remove it from the cockpit... On the other range, my son has had some 1/6 figures. But just to make a pic with a moving platoon takes soo much place, and, in fact, the vehicles are so often underscaled and more toyish than many 1/18 things, or it appears so clearly that these are toys that it destroys the effect. But they costs a lot... The only reproach I would now make against 1/18 soldiers is their weight. I have two 1/18 projects of boats that should navigate, but with all the crew on the deck, it won't float but capsize because the figs are too heavy (and I've allready had some losses in open water).

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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by tmanthegreat » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:18 pm

I get what you are saying, Axis, about moving in a different direction... Personally, I've always dabbled in multiple scales with the small scale military items ranging from 1/6 scale down to 1/700 scale, so when one scale got slow (like 1/18) there was still a lot to find in other scales (like 1/72). Then I've collected different genera, including vintage GI Joe 3.75" figures and vehicles as well as a lot of Star Wars stuff. Then some 1/1 scale items like guns and ammo :wink: Lots to collect!

Like you, I've recently gotten more into building kits and my collection is growing. In fact I was just in my local Hobby Town this morning getting some supplies and talking with my buddy there about various kits... He's trying to sell me an HK Models 1/32 B-17 at a reduced price of around $200 and it is really, really tempting :D If you are wanting to get into 1/6, you should really focus on Dragon for starters. They have quality figures that are mostly affordable. The GI Joe figures from 15-20 years ago are OK, but toyish. The 21c Ultimate Soldier figures are decent, though their vehicles (while impressive) are pretty basic in design and some are underscaled. Dragon makes 1/6 vehicles and artillery which can be found either in kit or prebuilt form. The kits are significantly cheaper than the prebuilt models, but can be complex. Their 1/6 scale Panzer II kit, for example, has over 700 parts and is not for the feint of heart!

So again, lots of directions to go if you have the time and wherewithal :D
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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by [CAT]CplSlade » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:51 pm

$200 for the HK B-17G is a great price and they are disappearing from the shelves as the E/F version approaches.

I probably don't need to state my opinion as I think it's clear the path I took over three years ago.

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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by Studly » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:55 pm

G'day Guys. I here what you are saying Denis. I started off many years ago building 1:48 , 1:32 and 1:24 Scale stuff and finally went onto 1:18 scale stuff. I am at the age where i don't have the patience to sit down and build kit's like i use too....Soooo i will continue on the 1:18 path . I have that many unbuilt kit's in storage that i will never get around to building. :?

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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by granch » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:51 pm

B-29, what is for a civilian plane, the silver one with black nose and tail, under the shelf left on your pic???? What scale is it?

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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by B-29 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:20 pm

granch wrote:B-29, what is for a civilian plane, the silver one with black nose and tail, under the shelf left on your pic???? What scale is it?
It's a Dynam Cirrus SR-22. Approximately 1/8 scale. Here is it in flight:
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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by Axis Nightmare » Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:15 pm

Interesting and appreciated comments and opinions. :salute:

I'm not abandoning 1/18. I have probably 100 ground troops and dozens of tanks and vehicles. (I still need to count them some time!).

I'll still have a squadron worth of planes but I really want what is at least very close to a scale aircraft model. Nice paint jobs and markings aren't for me, enough to compensate for the inaccuracies of many of the early offerings. Doesn't help that I picked up a box full of 25 cent Fine Scale Modeler magazines that I've been digesting since the Modeler's show. 8) The detail and accuracy in those is amazing, just like the models at the show. My builds will be big. 1/18 has spoiled me. Size does matter. :wink:
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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by Snake Man » Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:39 am

Regarding inaccuracies in the 1/18 offerings, has anybody ever posted a complete listing of them all in one place ? I think it would be quite interesting to know about all of them. I am aware of some, but certainly not all. I probably will regret asking this question !! I may be opening a can of worms.....

( Maybe a good idea for a new thread )

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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by cnq » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:37 am

1/18 planes always have a place in my collection because of the large size. My last purchase was the Me 262B Night Fighter and imo it's an awesome model in this scale. Over all I have about 15 models including helicopters and they all look great hanging up in the ceiling. All my guests are very impress when they come down to my man cave and seeing these big guys. I am also a 1/72 diecast plane collector and a scale modeler so I have the best of both worlds big size in 1/18 and detail & accuracy in scale models that I build.

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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by Axis Nightmare » Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:03 am

Snake Man wrote:Regarding inaccuracies in the 1/18 offerings, has anybody ever posted a complete listing of them all in one place ? I think it would be quite interesting to know about all of them. I am aware of some, but certainly not all. I probably will regret asking this question !! I may be opening a can of worms.....

( Maybe a good idea for a new thread )
It would indeed take a huge thread. :P

I'm not a rivet counter and have no aspirations of contests or competitions. Just looking for enough accuracy to put a plane, displayed on it's gear, in the model column rather than the toy column.

In a very general observation, most of the flaws are due to accomodating the toy features. The landing gear on the early offerings was terrible with struts molded into the covers and bicycle width tires. Overly thick wings and huge inaccurate door hinges can also be attributed to easy accomodating the retracting. The BBi 109s come to mind that have the accurate gear but they blew up the sleek fighter's wings to the thickness of a Ford Tri-motor to get it to retract. Wrong profiles of fuselages with oversized canopies and cockpit areas (P-47, P-38, P-40s to name a few) are likely for ease of pilot figure fit. Some inaccuracies may even be to make the item fit in the existing box series such as flat wings (no dihedral). It is surely a factor in undersized 1/6 items. Less material, less packaging, weight and so on. The late offering like the Korean jets, the 262s and the fabulous Dauntless rate as scale models more than toys in my book. Fortunately, the copters don't need to have retracts and have roomy cockpit areas so they too are in the scale model column for me despite some missing details. All the last offerings had come a long way since the series one Mustang and 109E. :)

In all the scale models at the shows and in the magazines I've read, I didn't see a single reference to working toy features like retracts, pilots in and out of the cockpit or working folding wings, flaps, elevators or ailerons. If the flaps or rudder are not in a neutral position, they have been permanently glued to that position. They are more a static "captured in time" display like a photo.
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What makes the P-51 Mustang so special?

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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by Snake Man » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:34 am

The only dihedral issue I am aware of is the droopy wings on the Avengers. All of mine have good dihedral on the wings. Perhaps the later issues of some models addressed this problem ? I have seen complaints about this on the P-40's, but my example has correct dihedral. I'm not a fan of the folding wings on any of the 1/18 planes, however. Not necessarily dihedral issues, just weak and not well designed.

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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by teebird » Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:14 am

Axis,

Why not try to accurize a couple of the 1/18 topics that bother you the most? None of my SWS or TAMIYA/Hasegawa/trumps etc... 1/32 models are anything but static. No moving gear or flaps, canopies etc. on some I've glued the prop in place because the plastic is too weak and breaks if u spin it. So the 1/32 stuff is of the moment in time type. Eliminating some of the toy functions like landing gear movement for a more detailed gear would go a long ways to fixing some of the issues u don't like. Why not put your scratch building skills to the test on an old S1 ME-109E? I can't recall ever seeing someone trick out the gear, cockpit, slats, engine bay. Etc....??? Thin the wing, add the detail u want or just go buy the HPH kit and build that? These models that we all bought at Wally town were a miracle at the price. That some of them are decent is a greater miracle! If u look at the HPH kits and the quality they offer, u get a true picture of what a sws or TAMIYA 1/18 kit would cost on any given item! I say enjoy your S1 ME-109 more by getting out the Razor saw and chopping that baby up! Maybe you can motivate others to do the same on some other topics. It's only chopping up a $50-60 model, last I looked a trumpeter KIT was as much or more than that. Keeping it in perspective if you were thinking of getting rid of some of your 1/18, why not try to fix the low hanging fruit on one first???

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I chopped the 190D up and made several TA-152's and a couple A model FW's, they're not IPMS show winners but way more fun than the original:)

Anyways just my 4 cents worth now:))

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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by Axis Nightmare » Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:55 pm

With you 100%. I have a couple "chopped up" right now. Mostly in the experimental/exploratory stage of what I could actually do. Kinda like dissecting to see the inner workings. I can tell you from experience these things were not made to come apart! There always seems to be one more screw. :? The glue they use is amazingly stubborn. Lots of razor sawing. I've sacrificed a BBi 109 that was missing parts to experiment. I have considered using the good gear off it to improve the 21st. C version with the better wing. Kind of a hybrid. Modifying clear canopy parts is particularly challenging.

Oh, and your FW conversions are stunning and fabulous and I am envious. :D
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What makes the P-51 Mustang so special?

"It would do for 8 hours what a Spitfire would do for 45 minutes."

Brig. Gen. Chuck Yeager

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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by teebird » Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:44 pm

If the S-1 ME-109 could be reworked with lowered flaps, the bays detailed up, the slats open/forward, the landing gear made static and detailed out, rework the cockpit and then get a DB engine kit from HPH, open the engine bay up and have some figures working on it with some ground equipment nearby, build a diorama base, then I think that would be a really nice display. :)) probably could be done for less than $100.00 or so:) it would be a big jump in the direction you are describing but in our beloved 1/18 scale!!!

Thanks for the compliment on the TA, I have 3 more in progress and I have revised each one as I learned more about how the models are assembled as u mentioned, and also how to cut them up. The one I posted a picture of has several pretty big flaws but the next few I am doing are getting better. I am seriously contemplating replacing one of my TA projects wing with one of the new Merit wings modified!

Anyways I'm not a big ME/BF-109 guy but the BBI BF-109 was awesome in my opinion!

Maybe you can inspire us with a S-1 ME budget rebuild!!:))

Geez I've now put in my 6 cents worth:))

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Re: Considering a New Direction

Post by Axis Nightmare » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:17 pm

Thanks for the inspiration and encouragement teebird :!:

Your skills are far above mine but I'm willing to dive in.
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What makes the P-51 Mustang so special?

"It would do for 8 hours what a Spitfire would do for 45 minutes."

Brig. Gen. Chuck Yeager

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