BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

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Axis Nightmare
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BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by Axis Nightmare » Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:48 pm

Perhaps this should be in the Customs and Mods forum?

Other than the landing gear, I think 21stC did a very nice job with the Bf-109G offering. The wing is good and the outline is sufficiently accurate. The gear on the BBi is great and the detail is good but the wing is as thick as a Hawker Huricane. It has a pronounsed bulging curve on the bottom when in reality it should be nearly flat. Really ruins the profile. In a never ending struggle to improve these toys to something closer to an accurate scale model I started looking close at options. I have a spare BBi so I thought maybe take the gear from the BBi and get it on the 21st C. Trouble is, they have totally different wing set-ups so it may not be practical. So how do I improve the overthick BBi wing? I decided to thin it from the inside out. This will mean taking apart the wing halves which I found to be daunting at best. There is no less than 11 attachment points that do not want to come apart. Prying was not an option as disasterous cracks and other damage was sure to happen. I started with an exacto on the right wing and sliced enough to finally get a razor saw blade in there and start slowly and carefully cutting through the attachments. This took most of a rainy evening before bed while listening to a ball game.

Flaps and ailerons finally began to fall out as I got more apart. The inner works of the wings on these things is an engineering marvel. They are not designed to be disassembled, period.

I then began to file down the inside edges of the wing top and bottom to reduce the thickness being careful not to mess up the paint job. More filing on the bottom is needed though it creates a problem of fit with the top. I have to match top and bottom filing to maintain the outline fit. The results so far are very noticeable when comparing to the other wing. I'll post pictures when I get it to where I want it.

There is great potential in this process for improving the P-51 wing and the 190D. Don't think there is hope for the 109E though since the issues are much more than just the wings.

to be continued......
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What makes the P-51 Mustang so special?

"It would do for 8 hours what a Spitfire would do for 45 minutes."

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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by Axis Nightmare » Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:37 am

Here's the original thick left wing:

Imageng:


Compare with the right after modifying:


Image


Makes a big difference to me at least. Now the bigger challenge is to get the modified wing to align and mate with the fuselage with some dihedral. All the while being carfeul not to ruin the paint job.
to be continued......
Last edited by Axis Nightmare on Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

What makes the P-51 Mustang so special?

"It would do for 8 hours what a Spitfire would do for 45 minutes."

Brig. Gen. Chuck Yeager

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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by pickelhaube » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:23 am

You'll have to thin out the landing gear as well to get it up inside of the wing well .

Unless you keep the gear deployed .
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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by Axis Nightmare » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:31 am

Never have I seen a serious scale modeler that worries about retractable landing gear. They nearly always glue them permanantly in the down position as will I. :wink:
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What makes the P-51 Mustang so special?

"It would do for 8 hours what a Spitfire would do for 45 minutes."

Brig. Gen. Chuck Yeager

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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by Jnewboy » Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:06 pm

The BBi version is a much better 109 than the 21st. The wing thickness is not that off, they did have to fit a real tire in there after all. :wink:

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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by Axis Nightmare » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:02 pm

Jnewboy wrote:The BBi version is a much better 109 than the 21st. The wing thickness is not that off, they did have to fit a real tire in there after all. :wink:
I agree that the BBi is better and worth modifying to make even better. I disagree with the wing thickness not being that off. I've reduced it by 1/3 and it is just now getting close. Added Dihedral will help relieve the thick straight Hurricane look. It should look more like these:

Image


Image
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What makes the P-51 Mustang so special?

"It would do for 8 hours what a Spitfire would do for 45 minutes."

Brig. Gen. Chuck Yeager

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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by snake » Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:30 pm

Does seem to be a fair amount of work, Axis, but hey, if you want to do it, and don't F it up, nice effort. :D

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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by Jnewboy » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:10 pm

Dont forget the wing bulges for the oversized tires on the G-6, or are you going to do this on BBi's and keep it a G-2?

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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by Axis Nightmare » Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:21 am

I better keep it as simple as possible and leave it a G-2.
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What makes the P-51 Mustang so special?

"It would do for 8 hours what a Spitfire would do for 45 minutes."

Brig. Gen. Chuck Yeager

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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by Axis Nightmare » Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:35 pm

Never was able to get the right combination of wing thickness at the wing root joint and have proper dihedral. The overall wing thickness reduction was even more successful than I thought it would be but mods to the fuselage to re-mate it proved difficult. I'll have to work on a better process starting at the wing root first to make sure as Snake said: I "don't F it up." :P
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What makes the P-51 Mustang so special?

"It would do for 8 hours what a Spitfire would do for 45 minutes."

Brig. Gen. Chuck Yeager

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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by mountian-man » Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:09 am

Axis Nightmare,

I think it's great that you want to enhance and modify the 1/18 planes in your collection. It will certainly add to your enjoyment of the model over time by making it personal. I want to share a link to a Bbi hellcat re-build by a senior modeler, that I think you'll find as impressive as I did:

http://www.largescaleplanes.com/article ... hp?aid=778

Personally, I haven't developed scratch building skills on the level that I'm ready to start dismantling my 1/18 planes, but maybe someday.
Have you considered building Trumpeter's 1/24 bf-109? Smaller for sure, but it's still a big Gustav and would allow you to achieve the accuracy you're looking for.

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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by Axis Nightmare » Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:58 pm

mountian-man wrote:
Personally, I haven't developed scratch building skills on the level that I'm ready to start dismantling my 1/18 planes, but maybe someday.
Have you considered building Trumpeter's 1/24 bf-109? Smaller for sure, but it's still a big Gustav and would allow you to achieve the accuracy you're looking for.
Once you've experienced 1/18, it's hard to go smaller. 1/32 and even 1/24 are dwarfed next to 1/18. Their impressive size makes it worth trying to improve them. They are so close to being good scale models.
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What makes the P-51 Mustang so special?

"It would do for 8 hours what a Spitfire would do for 45 minutes."

Brig. Gen. Chuck Yeager

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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by snake » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:42 pm

Axis Nightmare wrote:
mountian-man wrote:
Personally, I haven't developed scratch building skills on the level that I'm ready to start dismantling my 1/18 planes, but maybe someday.
Have you considered building Trumpeter's 1/24 bf-109? Smaller for sure, but it's still a big Gustav and would allow you to achieve the accuracy you're looking for.
Once you've experienced 1/18, it's hard to go smaller. 1/32 and even 1/24 are dwarfed next to 1/18. Their impressive size makes it worth trying to improve them. They are so close to being good scale models.
Definitely agree.

Imposing, and sometimes so close to be almost spot on.

1/18 is a real niche market, given the Wallmart crowd has moved on.

But, some very nice models available in 1/ 18. :D

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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by mountian-man » Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:50 pm

Keep us posted on your progress! I'm curious about how to achieve a dihedral on the wings...in smaller scales I've tried heating with warm water and bending, but bbi's plastic is pretty tough.

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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by AV-8B Driver » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:33 am

Just curiously, has anyone ever fixed the 21st Century Toys P-47D Thunderbolt Bubbletop No. 13295, 1:32 Scale? That was a P-47M Sprint and not the D. I was thinking of keeping one P-47 and doing up a P-47M.

Is there a list of available mods from the community that are available for purchase?

Has anyone ever done a He-163? I was going to work one up using a V1 as the starting point. It's so much easier now with the 3D printers...
We are poor little lambs, who have lost our way.. Baa... BAA ..baa..

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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by AV-8B Driver » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:41 am

mountian-man wrote:Axis Nightmare,

I think it's great that you want to enhance and modify the 1/18 planes in your collection. It will certainly add to your enjoyment of the model over time by making it personal. I want to share a link to a Bbi hellcat re-build by a senior modeler, that I think you'll find as impressive as I did:

http://www.largescaleplanes.com/article ... hp?aid=778

Personally, I haven't developed scratch building skills on the level that I'm ready to start dismantling my 1/18 planes, but maybe someday.
Have you considered building Trumpeter's 1/24 bf-109? Smaller for sure, but it's still a big Gustav and would allow you to achieve the accuracy you're looking for.

It's almost harder to put them back together than taking them apart. The P-47 is a total pain.

There is a modeling club where I live and of course they all laughed at the 1/18s for lack of detail and errors. I took an F6F and worked on it for about 2 months converting it to a RAF invasion fleet cover aircraft. I puttied, drilled rivets, weathered, worked up a new cockpit, took out the landing gear, locked the wings..... and they were very impressed. They still never bought into the 1/18 scale but that model now hangs in a local hobby shop.
We are poor little lambs, who have lost our way.. Baa... BAA ..baa..

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Re: BBi Bf-109G Glaring Issue.

Post by [CAT]CplSlade » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:50 am

You should see some of the crazy stuff the guys over at largescaleplanes.com do to them. A guy named JayW is working on a P-38 that is so detailed it is almost as if he shrunk a real one.

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