Rucksacks and Military Equipment Castings

[Apache26]

I know that SSHQ generally focuses on WWII subjects, and I'm not planning on getting into that. Any help is appreciated so I can determine what interest there may be before I spend my money on this project.

...Posted earlier in the Fighting 1:18th...

Gentlemen,

I'm in the process of talking to a 3D modeler about some pet projects I've always wanted to complete. As a soldier, history major and scale modeler, I tend to be more of a stickler for details and accuracy in personal equipment that is often lacking in mass produced toys. What I feel that enthusiasts like us are after is usually a model that we can pose. This drives us to increasingly higher expectations for articulation and detail. I've long had the desire to be a part of the crossover of 1:18 from children's toy lines to serious, detailed collectibles.

So with that in mind, I decided to start small. I own a large collection of Vietnam to modern era equipment that I can have modeled accurately. My personal favorite has always been Vietnam, and it always drove me nuts how shoddily the equipment of that era has been represented.

I plan on creating prototypes for two of the major types of Vietnam rucksacks. The first is the Lightweight (LW) Rucksack with frame. The second is the Tropical Rucksack mounted on a LW frame (as was common). I can throw up a variety of equipment variations and would like input on what would sell the best.

For example:

- LW Rucksack with PRC-25, extra canteens, poncho, an extra battery and smoke grenades
- Tropical Rucksack with 5-Quart canteen, extra canteens, entrenching tool and ammo can
- LW or Tropical rucksack with an AN/PVS-2 starlight scope, poncho, claymore bag, smoke grenades and ammo can

The possibilities are endless. The agreement I have with the modeler is to pay for a baseline rucksack and then we can model additional attachments for future prototypes as desired at a minimal cost for new designs.

I KNOW, HOWEVER, THAT VIETNAM IS A BIT OF A NICHE ITEM THAT MAY ONLY FIND BUYERS AMONG A HANDFUL...

I can also have a variety of gear modeled for customizing your figures. I have GI issue MOLLE assault packs and the standard MOLLE ruck. I also have medium and large ALICE packs. I can have claymore bags and other accessories modeled accurately. My idea at this point is to focus on packs and rucks since those are generally not well, or accurately represented. I can't afford to nickel and dime away at every existing 5.56 mm MOLLE/PALS pouch in existence right now.

What I need is an idea of what will sell, and some commitment on your part to spend your Christmas cash. It is my intent to keep this stuff cheap, but I don't have any price points yet.

I will not, as of yet, get into vests and plate carriers. I'm starting small with more "boutique" items to fill in things that toy companies ignore or are ignorant of or simply do a very poor job of molding. My hope is to build on these designs for much more ambitious future projects.

Please send me your input soon so I can get the ball rolling, determine an initial investment and set prices. I'd appreciate all input by 05 January so I can start making decisions. I'll announce my decisions by 06 January and hopefully take orders by then.

[granch]

Fine idea.
I'm only in modern time soldiers, and have no knowledge about accurate backpacks of USMC or US Army, but I'm tired of the 60 backpack of my BBI soldiers. Always the same open pack on its frame...
I would not refit all my army, but if you could bring us some pics of what you could do from GI Joe or other pacs, I will be very interested for a better equipment of one or to platoons.
Thank you in advance,
Chris

[USCGMK2]

I'm into WW2 and Vietnam. About 95% of my 1:18th figures are the Vietnam ones. I wish someone would make some Vietnam era M-16's, M-60's, and an RPD for my NVA/VC figures. I know you can get the M16A2, AK, and RPK. I think the poncho would be cool to have also.

[Apache26]

Thanks for your responses. I'll post photos of the live rucks I have set up in a day or two to give everyone an idea of what I'm trying to accomplish.

As for weapons, that is certainly a possibility. I know that Cold War weapons usually get ignored with all the M-4 variant mania.

[Apache26]

Here are example photos from my collection of what I'm planning on casting. Of course, there can be significant variations on the accessories based on interest.

By popular demand the PRC-25 on the frame:





Lightweight Rucksack w/ Claymore Bag:









Late war tropical rucksack on a LW frame w/ M-72A1 LAW:













And now the MOLLE Assault Pack:





All of these can be modeled and printed, but I need to know which are worth the initial investment. If the interest is present, I'll come up with a price point for a single pack and for a set.

[granch]

Well,you seem to be well equiped, even with an anti-tank rocket... for molding a small scale pack with a 3D printer, you should have a very big scanner to bring in a real pack.
Do you know how to make straps? BBI and PTE use an elastic band, could never find some as narrow as on the pack of these figures. Really not wonderfull, but function OK. On the other hand, the Bravo Team brand shows nicely molded modern backpack, with molded and realistic straps, but they are too rigid, even warmed in hot water, they never fit well on the figures. Both BBI and 21st have small ore big pins in the backpack and a horrible hole in the back of the figure... Which way are you going to take?

[Apache26]

Great questions! And for public disclosure, all ordnance is inert.

I'm going through a 3D modeler. The addition of a third party raises the cost slightly, but his rates are very reasonable. He assures me he can model the packs with no problem. I tried doing my own models through 123D Catch a year ago, but the technology to transfer panoramic photos into 3D models is still somewhat immature. I also lacked the time to become an expert CAD modeler and fix the mapping problems 123D Catch was having.

As for the shoulder straps, that's a great question. I'm discussing this with the modeler now. He can model the straps, but we're going to try a couple of approaches with them. I hope to be able to print them in vinyl for the 1:18 crowd so that they are like the Camelback straps in the modern "Our War" figures. Unfortunately, from what I know, 3D printers have difficulty with pieces that are sticking out into space. I am going to experiment with different types of elastic bands or nylon straps as well. So we'll see what I can come up with. It's going to be hard to come up with something totally realistic, but appropriate as a toy accessory. If I was simply making a resin scale model, I'd count on the modeler to scratch build shoulder straps. Fortunately, since I'm not a toy company, I think I can come up with a solution that is better because I'm not trying to mass produce a million packs from injection molds.

[Apache26]

BTW, NO PINS!!!

I hate those things, along with the big hole in the back of the figure. Too reminiscent of my childhood GI Joe's.

[Apache26]

Based on the limited feedback I received on here and Fighting 1:18, I'll be going with the radio and frame combination and the lightweight rucksack. I'll post photos of the 3D models when they become available.

The actual models may vary somewhat from the photos I posted. Rest assured that we've worked out a way to add and remove accessories with minimal cost by not having to model a new rucksack every time I add or remove something.

Once I get the 3D models in hand and work out the best way to do shoulder straps for 1:18 figures, I'll be able to post prices.

Granch - so far most of the interest that's being communicated to me is for the Vietnam rucks. If I can sell enough, I plan on adding more modern options.

[granch]

Well, let us see.
By the way, could you get a look at the Bravo Team Brand backpack from their modern US Marine figures, for example the Sgt Frank Segura. It is a big (hollow, so not too heavy) rucksack, they have molded the straps flat and separately and cemented them. Perheaps fixed with a hole in the pack and pin at each end of the strap, not visible). A remold could be cheaper. But I have no skill for molding and no 3D printer.
Have 2 or 3 (no pic yet, but will make one if you're interested), but shipping one from Switzerland to the USA and back will cost more than if somebody let you one or if you buy one.

[Apache26]

I think I know what you're talking about...but please post a photo to make sure. Thanks!

[granch]

1/18 Bravo Team Brand Rucksacks on BBI Elite Force Figures: 2 different molds, as you can see with the position of the rolled mattress and 2 colours, NATO camo and olive. Fine molded, but relatively rigid straps. Hollow pack for less weight allows the figures to keep staying. From my point of view, the best.

From the left, 2 Bravo Team. 4 smaller BBI, 2 with elastic straps and small pins, 2 with big pins only, hollow so not too heavy. Right: 1 21st Century, pin (removed), no straps. Nice English camo (from the British commando), but full plastic, too heavy and too flat molding, so no relief on the pic; below an other Elite force with a BIG pin, no straps but a hook to hang the pack upside down to a paratrooper's belt. The 2 BBI's centre right and the 1 right below are from the cheaper (and more toyish) Elite Force serie of soldiers.

Didn't show here the 2 standart packs from the PTE Brand. Elastic straps, hollow and light, one smaller and usable backpack with a folded tarpaulin on the top, the other one much bigger with many pouches, but really too wide, so you can see a slot on bot sides of the figure. No fine molding, not usable...

[Apache26]

Ok, I see. I have the packs with the pegs and elastic straps as well as the new releases with just the pegs. I'd like to make packs with vinyl straps like the ones you prefer, but there'll be some work involved to see what is feasible. I'll keep you posted.

[granch]

Do you imagine scanning an existant 1/18 rucksack, or remolding it?

[Apache26]

Neither. Per the post above, I hired a 3D modeler who is creating models of the photos of my packs that I sent him. Once complete and I am pleased with the models, I'll submit them to shapeways or another 3D printer source to make prototypes. From those prototypes, I'll either cast in resin or continue printing 3D copies.

[Apache26]

Teaser...

3D image of the LW rucksack frame from my hired modeler.

[Rylau]

Lookin' good so far.

[Apache26]

I can now send this for 3D printing through Shapeways! The modeler will now work on the rucksacks. I'll get the prototypes as soon as I can and will keep everyone updated on the progress.

[Rylau]

Is the speaker box removable? Why is that on there to begin with? You trying to get us all killed by giving away our position?

[Apache26]

Rylau, I hear what you're saying but I have a couple of reasons for the addition of the squawk box. It is my first priority to model things accurately. That's why I'm doing this and I value your input as a veteran. As an infantryman, we sometimes used them on our MANPACKS, and sometimes didn't. But I served in combat in Iraq, not Vietnam. The second reason I am making these models is to provide a product that will sell. I hoped that the addition of the squawk box would add something unique and more desirable for customers. I didn't add this on a whim. There is precedent for including the speaker, as you can see in these photos. None of these guys look like they are carrying radios for the brigade commander, so I assume that the use of speakers or even headsets came down to unit SOP.









To answer your other question, no I won't be able to make the speaker detachable. My future plans include another version of the radio on the frame that will remove the speaker and add a battery and a couple other pieces of gear. If I can't back up what I intend to model through photo documentation (or personal experience with modern items), then I won't do it. I need input, but I'm also trying to provide a product that will work, whether someone wants to use it for 1st 'CAV, 101st ABN or 1st ID. I recognize that veterans experiences differ from AO to AO and year to year, and some of the things I put out will not match all unit SOP's.

This is the best explanation I can provide and I hope you find interest in what I'm building. More rucks are on the way and I'd appreciate your input there as well.

[Apache26]

KT, yes an M-3 aid bag would be easy to do...

First prototype photo of the radio and frame:





There's a reason that it's called a prototype. We're already working on strengthening the frame and seeing if the shoulder straps are going to be viable. Right now, they are too brittle but with a little strength and a different plastic they may work.

I wanted to post this to show everyone that we're moving forward. My modeler is in the process of making the 3D models of the rucksacks as well.

[granch]

Looks fine, go on!

[Apache26]

Here is the 3D image of the rucksack with canteens and bandoleers. Last week I received newly printed prototypes of the radio pack. We're still working on getting the optimal thickness for the ruck frame so that it will withstand the printing process and ship without breaking. This is the primary obstacle we now face to getting these produced.

[USCGMK2]

Looks good!

[Apache26]

Wow...it makes me sad to see this post buried. But fear not, in spite of some obstacles my project hasn't died. We now have successful prototypes from shapeways!

It took some time to get the thickness of the frame correct. 3D models look cool as jpeg's, but they don't always print out the way the picture looks.

Here are the prototypes:





Lightweight Rucksack with bandoleer and canteens:



Radios...the semi-transparent radio is the ultra high detail plastic.





The rucksack is in 1:16 scale and after doing some comparisons between modern Joes and the 21st Century figures, I'll definitely stick with 1:18. It's my hope to be able to put the 1:16 scale models up for sale for 120mm scale model fans. Nonetheless, it won't be hard to downscale the pack to 1:18.

The only problem as you can see are the shoulder straps. My instructions to my modeler now are to remove them entirely and I'll try and figure out something else.

At least now I have a printable product that we know will work! My modeler is assiduously working on more models of different variations of packs.