1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

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pizzaguy
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1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by pizzaguy » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:12 am

Looking for thoughts on a Focke Wulf TA-183 Huckebein. I was watching a show on the history channel and seen the 183. Obscure little jet. I've been wanting to cut my teeth on a small project. The Komet seamed to be a natural choice, but I read about it being developed by Merit or Pegasus.

The 1/18 scale would be 21" wing span x 20" length.

I would like to make the kit from fiberglass. Few parts from resin and the gear in metal.

I want to keep it simple. No flashing lights. Non-functioning surfaces. Static gear.

The original 1945 project was terminated before an actual aircraft could be produced, so how does everyone feel about making a plane that didn't really exist?

I haven't looked back threw old threads, so if anyone is planning to build one let me know and I'll look at something else. I don't want to step on toes. At this point it's just a dream. I have nothing invested.

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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by normandy » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:03 pm

I think it would be a great project, I like the "what if" aircraft of Luft '46.
http://www.luft46.com/

http://www.luft46.com/ggart/gg183.html

Ta-183....Go for It!

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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by Jnewboy » Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:41 pm

PLEASE!!! I have wanted one for years!!

Its historicly very importiant also as the Soviets based the Mig15 off it!!

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It would look great next to my Ho229!!! 8) 8)

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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by YT » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:06 pm

I love to have one in 1/18 Nathan! Here is AMTech's 1/48 kit that I built.

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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by tmanthegreat » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:58 pm

I've been wanting one of these in 1:18 (or, heck even 1:32) for years! There's a great "what if" picture of this plane attacking a formation of B-29s somewhere over Germany on the cover of Schick & Meyer's book Luftwaffe Secret Projects: Fighters 1939-1945. The plane would go right along with my Pickelhaube HO-229 as well. Please make the Huckebein :D
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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by pickelhaube » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:06 am

Well it is a cool airplane .

I know a little about producing a plane it is a lot of work .

If you have plenty of time ( and money ) I would say do it.

Will you be making a " one of " or do you intened to sell them ?

Making a " one of " is pretty easy making one that you intentend to break down and cast the parts is about 3 times the work.

If there is a way try and figure out a price point per unit . Then put up a poll and see the interest.

I usually go with 10 conformations and with that I make my decisions if I will make the project or not .

I am not you but if I were to do this project I would put an estimated price of about $250 or so to do a resin kit .

You will be looking at about $750 worth of RTV and about $20 - $30 worth of resin per unit.

The hardest thing will be to get the panel lines right and making the canopy.

Unless you can use the FW-190's canopy . If that works you will have that part made out easy.

I think that this would be a cool project to do, but I am already eyeball deep in a project with an even bigger one looming on the horizon . :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by snake » Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:11 pm

Would be a cool " what if" Luftwaffe project Nathan.

Don't know if there would be enough interest to get into " mass production" though, given the price point, and the somewhat obscure nature of the plane.

But would be pretty impressive if done well, in the large scale.

Good Luck. :D

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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by normandy » Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:27 pm

Would have been a cool plane....

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....and would look great in 1:18. 8)

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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by maritime96 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:39 pm

Stuff like that has got to make you wonder: If Adolph had been patient and waited till say 1946 or 47 to start his blitzkrieg rolling, would there have been any real way to stop it? I mean an Air Force loaded with Me262's - Ho 229's and little guys like this. An army filled with King Tigers, Panther II's, every soldier armed with a sturmgewehr 44 - not to mention the possibility he would have had more advanced submarines, THE bomb, V-2's to deliver them and maybe even have put a man in space long before us or the Russians. I know there have been lots of "what if" stories on this but the reality of what could have been can be very sobering.
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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by tmanthegreat » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:44 pm

maritime96 wrote:Stuff like that has got to make you wonder: If Adolph had been patient and waited till say 1946 or 47 to start his blitzkrieg rolling, would there have been any real way to stop it? I mean an Air Force loaded with Me262's - Ho 229's and little guys like this. An army filled with King Tigers, Panther II's, every soldier armed with a sturmgewehr 44 - not to mention the possibility he would have had more advanced submarines, THE bomb, V-2's to deliver them and maybe even have put a man in space long before us or the Russians. I know there have been lots of "what if" stories on this but the reality of what could have been can be very sobering.
Actually, this logic is a bit flawed... Yes, the Germans did have long-range plans to develop the army, air force and navy, but were not for the war, this would have occurred at a slow pace to be completed in the late 1940s and without the innovation that later characterized German machines of war. That logic also fails to take into account Hitler himself. A lot of the less-practical innovations like the King Tiger, V-2, and other super-weapons were only made because Hitler wanted them to be made and they tied up resources that could have gone towards more practical measures to help the Germans win the war.

Warfare also drives necessity and innovation. German wonder weapons like the ME-262, V1, V2, their heavy tanks, advanced weapons, all were not part of the initial mindset of the German high command at the start of the war. Yes, they were developing rockets prior to 1939 and yes they even had flying jet aircraft before the start of the war, but the German high command - and Hitler - did not give priority to these projects, and didn't need to, when the Germans were winning and on top.

When the war started to turn against Germany and became a defensive war (really after Stalingrad in 1942 and the entry of the USA into the war) then they started to see the need for innovations to counter allied weaponry. Hitler was able to act impulsively on his delusions. Heavier tanks like the Tiger and Panther came about to counter Soviet armor like the T-34, but were in some ways taken too far as the King Tiger design shows. Aircraft that could fly faster and higher, like the ME-262, came about as they were needed to intercept the endless streams of allied bombers and fighters, but Hitler's meddling in the project caused delays and the plane was never exploited as it could have been. Better artillery and small-arms weapons for their troops came about based on what the Germans encountered on the battlefield fighting against namely the Russians. The famous V1 and V2 were weapons of last resort and particularly in the case of the V-2, not really very practical to winning a total war...

As a result of the German's initial organizational mindset - that they were on top and didn't need to innovate - their most advanced weapons and vehicles didn't receive priority until it was too late. Hitler didn't help either by tying up resources into projects that became dead ends. Many, if not the majority, of the German's technical innovations during the war came about because there was a need for them once the focus of the war shifted from offensive, to defensive, to desperation.

Sorry for the long rant, but at one time, I was a professional historian that studied this era (in part), and I'm not too fond simple generalizations :wink:

There are way too many "what if" moments in WWII history that could have changed the outcome in Germany's favor (i.e. winning the Battle of Britain and invading England; capturing Moscow, seizing the Suez Canal, etc) or at least prolonged the war (pushing back the Kursk salient, repelling the first waves of the D-Day invasion, reaching their objectives in the Ardennes in 1945, and so on) but these thankfully didn't happen!
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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by maritime96 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:32 am

Well then I apologize if I "over simplified" things too much to much for ya. Just thinking out loud as they say.
"When the people fear the government you have tyranny...when the
government fears the people you have liberty."
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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by Threetoughtrucks » Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:15 am

And don't forget the subs that were developed with hydrogen engines that were actually in the final development stages. The sub that submerged when leaving the sub base and surfaced after a patrol, again, at the base. As I remember, one was actually commissioned and set on patrol but the war ended as they were lining up a cruiser for a kill. After the war records tell us the cruiser and destroyer screen never knew the sub was there.

Mass production of that sub would have been a game changer..... For the lack of some materials.. :roll:

The plans for super tanks were just impractical pipe dreams, just too big to be able to move on roads and bridges.

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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by tmanthegreat » Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:40 pm

maritime96 wrote:Well then I apologize if I "over simplified" things too much to much for ya. Just thinking out loud as they say.
Ah, don't worry about it - I can't expect us all to have academic backgrounds in history, though it would be nice :wink:

Just that the point I was trying to make was that many of the famous German military technical innovations either came about in the first place or experienced accelerated development as the war created a necessity for them. When the war started and even in their long-range plans pre-1940, the German high command - and Hitler - saw little need for them. Lots of documented evidence for this. And then thanks to Hitler's own priorities and demands during the war, some projects were pursued while other perhaps more logical ideas were not. ME-262s, King Tigers, MP-44s, etc would not have come about and been sitting ready had the Germans simply waited another 5 years or so to start the war - they were all products of innovation driven by the necessity - and desperation - of war. Plenty of examples on the Allied side of that trend as well.
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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by Jnewboy » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:01 pm

One can always think of these what ifs but like what was stated above by tman Germany's major innovations came out of adversity. Many think that the Germans started the war with superior equipment which is not totally true. The one thing that they had that was head and shoulders above any other country were men like Heinz Guderian who were military geniuses and had clear understanding of how this new type of war should be fought. There are many turning points during the war but the most critical and the one that truly cost Germany was when during Barbarossa when Hitler started making key strategic decisions against the advice of Guderian and against the preset time table needed to achieve their goal before winter. This problem became worse and worse as the war went along, the more Hitler was involved in the decision making the worse the decisions got, so much so that all plans to assassinate him were scrapped by 1944 as he was seen as an asset to the Allied war effort. Thats not a joke ether, it's part of the official war record, many organizations from both the soviet union and the western allies had plans and men in place to carry out an attempt but were ordered to stand down indefanitly after the start of 1944. There have been many who have criticized them for this as the war may not have given up so many spoils as it did to the Allies when they had archived total victory but a peace truce would have saved millions of lives on all sides especially for those in the concentration camps. It is a real shame that Stauffenberg failed.

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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by maritime96 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:46 pm

[quote="tmanthegreat]
Ah, don't worry about it - I can't expect us all to have academic backgrounds in history, though it would be nice :wink: [quote]

Na, Im just a simple ex Navy toy guy, I know what I know but I am no professor. I can completely understand that it was the experience and desperation of the war that led them to try this type of stuff, but like I said I was just "what if ing" out loud.
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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by DocTodd » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:38 pm

A cool plane- am always interested in the unusual planes.
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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by pizzaguy » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:36 am

Pickle, Thank you for the tips. I watched your Horton process and it was very intimidating. You've actually inspired me to even consider doing this. Whether I make one or ten I enjoy the process and the learning experience.

Tman, Thank you for the lesson. My dad was in the infantry during WWII, so I've always been interested in history.

I would like to make this available to anyone interested. I've built R/C planes for a few years, so I would like to approach the master just like a R/C build. Then go from there.

My plan is to cast the fuselage and wings out of fiberglass, the LG out of metal, the cockpit and smaller parts out of resin. I need to compare the cost of fiberglass vs RTV. I have been watching a couple guys on youtube. The process seams straight forward enough.

Before I can do any of that I need to develop a set of plans. I purchased a book Focke-Wulf Ta 183 by David Myhra for reference. I am looking for a 1/48 model to pull some measurements from. Once I have everything I can begin. I imagine this will be a long tedious process.

I'll post updates as things progress.

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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by big_mike » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:59 pm

As a fan of Luft 46 etc, I'll be watching and waiting with great anticipation.

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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by pizzaguy » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:18 pm

:evil: FYI, DO NOT EVER PURCHASE Focke-Wulf Ta 183 by David Myhra.

Everything in it is on the internet. It's so bad that a couple images have that pixel look when you increase the size of a smaller image.

Now I'm looking for a Tamiya or Amtech 1/48 scale model. Anyone have an extra laying around?

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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by [CAT]CplSlade » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:39 pm

It only got 2 out of 5 stars on Amazon for being a shoddy piece of crap book.

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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by normandy » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:24 pm

Image 8) 8)

http://modelingmadness.com/review/axis/ ... ter183.htm


I've seen this at a local hobby shop....I don't know if they still have it, but I can check If you want.
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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by pizzaguy » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:41 pm

I'm striking out. If you could look that would be great. I'm heading to Indy in a couple weeks and I might have some luck there. Thanks

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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by normandy » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:09 pm

I went to Nassau Hobby today looking for the Tamiya 1:48 Huckebein....dang kit sat there for ever, Its gone. :x
I'll try Willis Hobby, another local shop.

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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by maritime96 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:37 pm

Normandy, I saw your post, I haven't seen one in any of our stuff yet - but if I do I will let you know.
"When the people fear the government you have tyranny...when the
government fears the people you have liberty."
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Re: 1/18 FW TA-183 Huckebein?

Post by normandy » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:03 am

Thanks Maritime96, Just trying to help out Pizzaguy and maybe get this 1:18 FW Ta-183 underway.

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