Rebirth of the F14 Metal Landing Gear

[pizzaguy]

A board member was kind enough to send me his set of metal lg to cast. I finally got around to getting the main part done. The silver ones are what I cast. I know I'm breaking some cardinal rule of casting someone else's work, but given that someone else I don't think that rule applies.

The main goal is to keep cost down, so I was thinking that the main struts be cast out of metal and the add-on pieces be cast in resin. That would keep the cost down considerably. Casting everything in metal would increase the cost by at least $20.
At this point I am looking at a $45 price for unfinished kit with metal/resin mix. An all metal around $65-$70. What's the general feelings on a metal/resin mix?

Where I live there is a custom motorcycle shop that does powder coating. I was going to check and see what he would charge to coat the metal portion. That way you would not have to worry about paint flaking off. The guy that we have doing the signage for our stores has some chrome he could print the stickers out of.

Does anyone recall what Skyworks was selling them for? I've seen prices on Ebay for up to $100 back when they were around.

I guess the main thing is who is interested?

[Black_Dragon_One]

A board member was kind enough to send me his set of metal lg to cast. I finally got around to getting the main part done. The silver ones are what I cast. I know I'm breaking some cardinal rule of casting someone else's work, but given that someone else I don't think that rule applies.

The main goal is to keep cost down, so I was thinking that the main struts be cast out of metal and the add-on pieces be cast in resin. That would keep the cost down considerably. Casting everything in metal would increase the cost by at least $20.
At this point I am looking at a $45 price for unfinished kit with metal/resin mix. An all metal around $65-$70. What's the general feelings on a metal/resin mix?

Where I live there is a custom motorcycle shop that does powder coating. I was going to check and see what he would charge to coat the metal portion. That way you would not have to worry about paint flaking off. The guy that we have doing the signage for our stores has some chrome he could print the stickers out of.

Does anyone recall what Skyworks was selling them for? I've seen prices on Ebay for up to $100 back when they were around.

I guess the main thing is who is interested?

dude u know i am in

[Black_Dragon_One]

i say all metal it is more durable... since we paying close to 100 each i say make it last

[firefighterpilot1]

Looking good, I'd be in for a finished set!

[pizzaguy]

These would be the parts cast in resin.


The remaining parts would come from the existing landing gear.

Here's a video on youtube showing the install. It gives you a better idea of what is reused from the old gear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVjsqxl2KAY

Reusing the old parts and casting the additional parts in resin would keep the price down to around $45 for a kit. Casting the additional parts in metal and still reusing the parts from the old gear would be around $65-$70. The additional parts are primarily cosmetic and do not add any strength. Casting them in metal adds to the cost with no gain. Plus, that increases the cost of a completed set. My goal was to get the completed set done for around $75-80, depending what the powder coating cost. Harbor Freight has a powder coating gun for $65 which looks interesting.

It boils down to what would the group like. My goal is to address the cost, while producing a quality item.

[Black_Dragon_One]

if you were going to do the existing part die cast it be best to add one more peace to the picture.. the peace would be were the landing gear side arm that connect to the main body. there a little latch peace that swing up to lock it to the main body.. it is a little peace but it really secure the landing gear to the body..

[rudedog]

all metal for me im in

[Folkwulfe]

I have a set of the original metal gear legs offered. The plastic "drag braces" that were supposed to be re-used would not work. The plastic had become so brittle, removing the hinge pins caused almost every one to snap the pin sockets out. I recently purchased the resin replacements and have only dry-fitted them, but everything looks great. The original Skyworks metal gear were offered at $120.00 each set (unpainted) and around $165.00 (painted and assembled). BD-One is correct the "L" connector on the backside of each leg should be done in metal or it may fail from stress put on it by the weight of the model. BTW...that "L" brace is on the real gear and engages a lug under the fuselage just after the gear is fully extended. It acts as an additional brace for the rugged carrier landings these gear had to endure. As for casting someone elses work.....how can you rob a robber? Keep going dude....I may need another set and you are about to be the only game in town.

[Kroll777]

Have you had any luck with the F-18 gear?

[pizzaguy]

All metal it is. As I thought about it a ready to install gear would work best for most people. The pins are nearly impossible to get out of the existing gear. I broke a couple pieces taking mine apart.
The unpainted kit version for $85 and painted for $125. The kit version will be out of the mold to you. I will clean off the flashing. They will need prepped for painting.The cost seams reasonable given the prices Folkwulfe posted.
I will look into the powder coating for a more durable coating. The RTI version will have the one pin to pull at the base, everyting else will be assembled. Simply pull the old gear out and install the new.

Kroll, I stalled on the F18 gear after my last post on those. The general feeling was that taking the F18 apart to replace the gear wasn't an option. The old gear needs to come out and replaced with a new metal set. There would be a weak link if the old gear was cut off and spliced together. I'm open to ideas.

[Kroll777]

I'llI look at it today. I'll see if I can come up with an idea.

[USCGSARdog]

I am in for a set, for sure.

Would you consider offering the kit version with metal struts and resin drag links etc.? I agree, only one of the small parts will add any strength to the gear, and that is the L-shaped side brace that BD-One and Folkwulfe pointed out. The drag links, tie-downs, retract ram and brake line hinge assemblies could all be cast from resin since they are mostly for looks. I would think that this would bring the price of the kit down a bit, but you would know better than I.

I am just trying to keep the price down a little. I don't mind finishing and painting at all, and I know there are a few others here who have the same capabilities. A lower cost option may bring a few more buyers on board.

-Rob

[pizzaguy]

I don't see why we couldn't do a metal and resin version. The cost really comes down to the silicone. That stuff is not cheap. If I could multipurpose the metal casting molds to cast the resin it should be good. I'm not sure how many pulls I will get from the silicone before they fall apart. The RTV silicone is very brittle and pieces crack off. I will still need to spread the project cost across both versions. I will work out the numbers.
I am not in it to make a killing or to quit my job. I need enough to cover my cost with a little extra to work on new projects. I enjoy creating something that people can use and appreciate to make their visions come true.

[snake]

Well done pizzaguy. You have certainly given a lot to the 1/18 community, and continue to do so. It is appreciated.

I display in flight, but your stands are great for that as well.

[pizzaguy]

I got in a supply of metal on Thursday and all the parts cast in silicone. I was able to get all the parts to cast in metal but the thin parts shown in the middle. (These are the originals)
I can get them to partially cast, but not all the way. I've cut the vent channels and no luck. Those parts may have to be cast in resin. I can place them in the pressure tank with resin and duplicate them that way. They are purely cosmetic anyway. All of the weight bearing parts will be in metal.

Has anyone cast in metal that could give me some pointers?

I have six sets of main gear cast and a few parts. My plan is to get a set cleaned and painted as a demo set. To show how the final product will look.

I will keep you posted.

[pickelhaube]

Are you pouring these or spin casting ?

I think the originals (jack's ) were subbed out to a spin caster.

Unfortunately the rubber used for spin casting has to be vulcanized. ( cooked ).

I am not sure were you live but it could be possible to find somebody in your location who can do this.

The spin casting moulds are very durable and I have been told that they can last for hundreds of casts.

http://www.google.com/search?q=spin+cas ... 80&bih=812

[pizzaguy]

Thanks Matt. I completely forgot about doing a spin cast. A while back I looked at converting my drill press in a spin cast machine. I don't need anything extravagant for these small parts. I've got the gears working. I need to tackle some orders to get money built back up.

[pickelhaube]

You probably could use your RTV as the mould for the spinner. Although it may not hold up as well it probably would work.

[pizzaguy]

Just a quick update. I was able to make a little progress on the gear this weekend. I have nearly four set cast. The thin decorative parts are being the biggest pain. The spin cast is working some of the time. The last couple pours have resulted in a blow out spitting hot metal everywhere. I need to make some adjustments before I get more that blisters. No pain no gain. I need to switch to a softer metal. What I have is great for the main gear but is not soft enough to make adjustments on the little parts. Till then.....

[The_Helicopter_Pilot]

What kind of metal are you using?
And you think you can get the rest of the 1/18 gear in here after the F-14?

[pizzaguy]

I am using a Bismuth-tin alloy. The stuff is great for the main gear and support parts but I need a softer metal for the decorative parts. I mainly picked that type of metal because it was lead free. From what I am reading to get a softer metal it needs to contain a little lead. I need to take some time to devise a way to keep the metal from spraying all over me and the work bench. I'll get it eventually.

And you think you can get the rest of the 1/18 gear in here after the F-14?

I'm not sure a follow?

[The_Helicopter_Pilot]

I am using a Bismuth-tin alloy. The stuff is great for the main gear and support parts but I need a softer metal for the decorative parts. I mainly picked that type of metal because it was lead free. From what I am reading to get a softer metal it needs to contain a little lead. I need to take some time to devise a way to keep the metal from spraying all over me and the work bench. I'll get it eventually.

And you think you can get the rest of the 1/18 gear in here after the F-14?

I'm not sure a follow?

For the smaller parts I'd use just lead, I made a few copy's of the corgi showcase planes from lead, actually pretty good, the wings can be bent easy though, lead is very inexpensive, and by "all the other gear" I mean gear for the F-104, and other aircraft that have gear problems, maybe some special ones for people that can't find replacements for other 1/18 aircraft.

[pickelhaube]

I am not sure of your set up.

But are you using a round mould ? Get a larger size hose clamp with a piece of leather ( strip ) and go around the mould .

The hose clamps that I use ( From Ace or Home Depot ) can be daisy chained together to make a larger clamp.

[pizzaguy]

My MacGyver attempt with items found around the house. The cd case offers a perfect spindle and base. I figured the lid would work good at containing any leaks. Which it did, otherwise I would have had a lot more hot metal on my skin. I used a variable speed dremel as the drive. I used high temp silicone (450°F) for the mold.

[pizzaguy]

Version 2.0. Flipped the drill press over and with some items from the local plumbing store we're in business. I was able to get the pieces that I needed. I could not get the fishing weight hot enough to flow into the mold, so I melted in some bismuth-tin and that solved the problem. There's a couple more parts to cast and I can start working on getting some assembled.

Is there a preference to painting or powder coating?
Is there any board members that purchased a finished set that could comment on the paint durability?

I will fill comfortable taking orders once I have a set completed and installed for everyone to look at.