Littlebird history question

[norwaystar06]

I like the littlebird infact it was my favorite helicopter (liked it far better than my CIA huey) until it felt the wrath of a 2 year old toddler, needless to say I bought another one for 40 dollars on ebay (shipping and handling included) anyway I noticed this one doesn't have any doors and that's fine but I realized the real one doesn't either... I got the latest version, the night stalker edition and I looked up that Night Stalkers apparently they are a secret operations group for the Army. You'd only imagine being a spec op heli you would want to keep the doors on, why did the army get rid of them?

Well I understand why the back doors are removed that makes sense cause it opens like a car door and that I guess could be more difficult to get in and out of the heli especially if hou have to rapel out, but why the pilots doors as well? Again you'd imagine the army wants to keep the pilots well protected so then can RETURN from their mission... anyway hopefully someone can shed light on the topic

[paulpratt]

Doors add weight and therefore make the helicopter slower. The mission of a little bird is to deliver armament or troops into the thick of things as swiftly as possible. By removing the doors you can add several MPH onto a vehicle. There are also maintenance considerations to a lesser extent. Doors make little difference in whether or not a pilot can return from his mission, but speed can.

The Night Stalkers are a special operations unit of the US Army. They are purely a helicopter aviation squadron. Their missions are generally run at night, hence their name. The primary goal of the unit is to insert troops, equipment, or deliver armament swiftly through any situation, usually the most intense. They bring people back through skill.

A basic primer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/160th_Spec ... ted_States

[norwaystar06]

ahhhhhhh thats very cool to know, so they essentially sacrifice safety for speed (which intern can be safety) That's very cool thanks for the info Paul So now i gotta ask, why dont they do this to the other helicopters they have, i would assume the Blackhawk would do this since their doors are huge as well.

[15tango]

As far as the removal of the doors go, it is usually up to the pilots and what the unit's SOP will allow. Most of the time the doors are removed to allow a better breeze in the helicopter to keep the crew cool when operating in hot climates. As far as the door goes into providing protection for the pilots, it is little to none (The door is pretty much a frame with sheet metal and plexiglass). However, there are Kevlar panels attached to the side of the pilot's seat that do provide protection. As far as reducing weight on the aircraft, it does technically but I don't think it reduces enough to make a significant difference in the aircraft's performance. I say all this in regards to Black Hawks because I am currently a crew chief/mechanic but I would say it would apply to Little Birds as well for the most part.

[granch]

When you drive your car with all windows open, you'll need more fuel for the same distance and at the same speed. The reason is the resistance to air flow. With closed doors on helicopters, it will have the same effect, since the entire fuselage including doors is studied to have the smallest resistance to air flow and opened windows or doors enhance the drag and lower the speed. In desert areas, there is an other problem: sand... with the rotor wind during start and landing, you'll get sand into a very expensive electronic, but if you sand the windows, you'll have a less good vision outdoor with time. So, I think that before mission, many factors are studied: how far, with what speed and load, quick out boarding necessary or not, altitude (and cold) and so on. So, for short distances, without doors makes the weight advantage and pilot's comfort the difference. All questions of choosing the best compromise.
I've been surprised to see that you can carry 4 men + crew. But probably only on short distances, and it might be not only the question of comfort of these 3rd class seats (with a nice sight around though).

[TankAce]

Helicopters are not that fast so aerodynamically,the doors will not make much of a difference.Also the doors are pretty light and provide no protection(at least from bullets)
On the other hand a Apache helicopter has very powerful engines that allow it to carry heavy bulletproof glass and is even air conditioned.
The little bird is a small target so my guess is that they don't rely to much on protection and more on stealth.
Black color at night and to top it off small,it is more difficult shoot down.

[norwaystar06]

Ok now im starting to get it, big helicopter is a larger target thus easier to take down so it need the protective doors and other protections around critical components, while the smaller helicopter use size, speed, and camo to keep it safe, so doors aren't 100% necessary.... ahhh makes so much sense I can't wait to get my little bird proabably the smallest aircraft in my collection, anyway thanks for the info guys

[turkish1]

http://youtu.be/tiQCqiZpnuQ

check this one

[pcoughran]

Also, removal of the doors gives much better visibility to the pilots. These are the best rotary wing pilots in the world and their missions often require them to put a little bird in tight places that many would never imagine a helicopter being able to put down. Sometimes just a foot or 2 clearance on either side of their rotors. Think tight streets of a Somali city or rooftops confined by adjacent buildings.

[norwaystar06]

Very cool video and that kinda conflicts my idea with this doorless chopper... id imagine in places like baghdad they would want doors to keep the flying sand out when they are hovering a few feet off the ground when they are in those tight spaces, I vould picture it being a huge dustraction while doing something so delicate....o.o

or does that dust flying everywhere theory only apply to Large Helicopters? after watching the video again it seems none of the dust lifted off the ground when landing...

[sax5thave]

I would think it's more for better visibility than anything else.Same practice in Hueys during the VN war. Also, weren't the Blackhawks in the movie BHD, lacking doors too?

[Folkwulfe]

Try this link out. It's the BHD helo-assault scenes and clearly shows the UH-60s had no doors (as well as the Lttlebirds). This is very common in the desert areas of operations. The doors offer NO protection from enemy fire and little protection from weather. The best they are suited for is to secure the interior when not manned. You will find the clip from BHD here:
http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/ ... tion/5655/

[Tambo]

Simple Answer. We Can not open the doors with the Guns on, so no matter the weather with weapons the doors are off. Also we take them off for EGRESS training on both the Littlebird and BlackHawk.