Red Tails...

[cjg476]

Agreed

[Dauntless]

Yeah, the classic movies with real planes.

"The War Lover" comes to mind. Black and white, and some hair raising B-17 flying sequences.

Was watching "Guadalcanal Diary" today in black and white. All kinds of cool and authentic hardware. They had SBD's and Wildcats even. They do ham it up though, and it's a little too melodramatic for today's tastes where we're used to seeing different styles of acting.
Probably some of what Lucas is trying to recapture, but doesn't fit these days. Spoiled and jaded we are no?


They are using real aircraft in a lot of this so we'll see. Pearl Harbor got much of the same reaction, but stands on it's own in a lot of respects.

[gouchy]

The sneek preview video has been taken down but managed to watch it earlier

Agreed with aferg, I miss those war epics with real planes, the sense of awe is just not the same, guess I'm getting old and out of touch with the times.

Those P-51s sure looks like they fly faster then snowspeeders and x-wings

[Axis Nightmare]

The speed of the planes is all about the MTV generation where most scenes are fast split second takes that a generation with no attention span keeps them from focusing on any one thing more than two seconds. They were brought up on Star Wars and supersonic jets. Piston planes would look agonizingly slow in comparison. The piston planes on the "Dogfights" series fly at jet speeds, even the slow dive bombers. The P-40's on the Red Tails preview are doing their strafing run at about 600 mph. It isn't all that new though because I've seen really old movies that speed up the action whether a car chase or cowboys and Indians on horseback. Speed = Action

[aferguson]

speaking of the strafing run........what was that about attacking a train from the front? Never heard that before and haven't seen it in one piece of gun camera footage.

Most gun cam shows strafing attacks from the side, where the target presents a broad area and return fire from the target will be less accurate.

[Dauntless]

Can a P-40 with 50 calibers even do that much damage to a locomotive?

I thought that would be a more of an attack suited to a rocket equipped P-47 Thunderbolt or a 30mm equipped P-39 Aircobra which they did fly also.

They probably got their airplanes mixed up and of course the angle of attack no?

[Aslav]

An interesting turn of events.

Lucas quits block-busters over "all black movie" snub.

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/mov ... 1q7js.html

[CessnaDriver]

RT has it at 35% and I bet it will fall lower as more reviews are coming in....

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/red-tails/


Not reading want I wanted to hear about this film that's for sure.

[[CAT]CplSlade]

There is just no way I will pay to see this.

We still have 1995's Tuskegee Airmen to fall back on, I guess.

[aferguson]

yes .50 cals can destroy a locomotive. Even armored locomotives. If you look at gun cam footage on youtube you'll see lots of examples of locomotives being attacked and going up in smoke, from .50 cal fire.

It wouldn't blow up like in the movie, but that's movies for you.

I can't imagine you'd want to attack head on. The closing speed would be even greater, giving less time to shoot and you'd be an easy target for any guns on the train, as all they'd have to do is throw up bullets in front of the train and wait for the plane to fly into them.

I won't be seeing this movie either i don't think. Too cringe worthy.

Maybe when a hollywood director comes along that doesn't think he can improve on history, we'll get a good, realistic airwar film.

[gburch]

RT has it at 35% and I bet it will fall lower as more reviews are coming in....

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/red-tails/


Not reading want I wanted to hear about this film that's for sure.

hmmm, professional film critics don't like it? I'll probably love it . . .

As for the comments about speed, I've always felt that film depictions of even WWII aerial combat were often SLOWING things down too much in most instances, because a realistic depiction of the speeds of many encounters would be too fast to have the kind of dramatic impact a filmmaker wants. Considering that the CLOSING speed of a head-to-head encounter between two late-war fighters in the beginning or middle of a dogfight starting at higher altitude could range from 700 to 800 mph, a lot of the action is too fast for "story-telling." But it is true that actual speeds in a chasing, turning battle would drop dramatically, and relative speeds could seem to become agonizingly slow, and film depictions of the length of machine gun bursts of fire are almost always exaggerated. But . . . as I've said about this film before, I'll take some schmaltz and technical inaccuracy for an old-fashioned hero-flick.

[Dauntless]

I was thinking the same thing about movie critics. What a job, sit on your ass, critique and get paid for it. Perhaps by the same Hollywood types who wish him the worst for going outside the clique?

Maybe one day like The Matrix we'll see a zip camera effect in a dogfight. Slow motion of a warbird getting ripped apart by 30mm cannon shell while panning around it, stunned look of the pilot taken by surprise, just before it explodes. Hasn't been done yet.

Not a Lucasfilm type effect but it would be cool nonetheless.

I like Afergs words "cringe worthy" I seem to remember doing that in some parts of all three Star Wars prequels.
..but I still got entertained.

[snake]

The preview videos I have seen have been less than what I was hoping for.

Too much action, crammed into too small a timeframe. Like a video game.

Will download and watch when it is available, but more than happy with the "Tuskegee Airmen", so no big loss.

BTW, I HATED "Pearl Harbor". What a piece of sh%t.

[CessnaDriver]

RT has it at 35% and I bet it will fall lower as more reviews are coming in....

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/red-tails/


Not reading want I wanted to hear about this film that's for sure.

hmmm, professional film critics don't like it? I'll probably love it . . .

As for the comments about speed, I've always felt that film depictions of even WWII aerial combat were often SLOWING things down too much in most instances, because a realistic depiction of the speeds of many encounters would be too fast to have the kind of dramatic impact a filmmaker wants. Considering that the CLOSING speed of a head-to-head encounter between two late-war fighters in the beginning or middle of a dogfight starting at higher altitude could range from 700 to 800 mph, a lot of the action is too fast for "story-telling." But it is true that actual speeds in a chasing, turning battle would drop dramatically, and relative speeds could seem to become agonizingly slow, and film depictions of the length of machine gun bursts of fire are almost always exaggerated. But . . . as I've said about this film before, I'll take some schmaltz and technical inaccuracy for an old-fashioned hero-flick.

The critics you can read at RT aren't like the old days when it was condescending NY Times, your local paper and maybe Sneak Previews on PBS.

I've found that RT to be very helpful at making go or no go decisions and avoid a lot of disppointment and keep my money.

[p51]

Just got back from the Midnight showing... had a group of people go. All of us were pleasantly surprised by the movie, and one person (who came into it thinking she'd not like it) actually said it was much better than she was expecting and enjoyed it. It's 3am so I can really write a full review, but I will say it's not without it's VERY corny dialogue (that stood out the most for me) at times, and the love story could have easily been removed from the plot. That being said, while I knew that the aircraft were all CG I heavily enjoyed the flight action, and there were some incredibly done shots with the aircraft. It's certainly not Saving Private Ryan, but it's a fun action flick that I'd say is between something you'd see on the Discovery Channel (a recreation mini-movie) and a cheesy post-war WW2 movie from the 50s. The flying in the movie, especially the very first scenes where the Germans are pouncing on the bombers, really moves you. I found that I had been holding my breath unintentionally during that part and once it was over I remembered I hadn't taken a breath in a while.

Overall, if you can just appreciate it for what it is and NOT think of it as a documentary, then it's a rather good movie. I'll see it again I'm sure!

[Stug45]

I was genuinely interested in seeing red tails until I saw the AWFUL trailer. It has the WORST electronic music that I've ever heard. And the dialogue in the trailer makes the heroic tuskegee airmen sound like annoying teenagers $h!t-talking in MW3.
In the trailer they say "To the last man to the last plane we fight we fight" AM I watching a historical period piece or Drumline?

Sorry Tuskegee Airmen, you deserve better than this movie

[Rowsdower]

I hate war movies with love stories. Remember Pearl Harbor?

Soldiers missing their wives or girlfriends, crying over photographs or getting Dear John letters are ok.

Just like the love/sex scenes between Leonardo and Kate ruined Titanic. I know thats not a war movie but I'm just sayin'!

[p51]

It has the WORST electronic music that I've ever heard

The good news is that the music is NOT in the movie. If you'd like to check out the soundtrack, you can sign up for a free trial account and listen to the whole album: http://www.rhapsody.com/artist/various- ... soundtrack

The romance love story isn't as bad as Pearl Harbor's, but it wasn't needed. I get the idea that they are trying to really make us feel for the character so we worry about him with every mission he goes on, but it's just not needed and disrupted the flow at times. Though, seeing as the love interest is Daniela Ruah (NCIS: Los Angeles), I guess it wasn't too bad!

Also, one BIG BIG BIG thing I forgot to mention... everyone seemed to have a heart attack over the trailers showing the Red Tails with the WRONG bombers. Well, I can assure you that the trailer is a massup of different scenes. Those bombers with the 'wrong markings' from the 8th AF are from the beginning of the movie, BEFORE the Red Tails are assigned bomber escorts. It basically sets up just how bad the bombers are being cut to pieces and the need for fighter cover to stay WITH the bombers. But that top view of the bombers with the triangle markings are not from when the Red Tails are escorting the bombers. I guess that's just bad trailer editing on their part.

[cjg476]

I for one am glad to see you positively review this movie P-51. I think I will take the chance and take the family to go see it.

[Dauntless]

If P-51 likes it, that's encouraging. I'm starting to get sour grapes with all the rotten tomatoes. Probably go see it Monday (no crowds)

It's not all CGI. Some real pilots were put to work on this movie, with real planes. Saw a pic of "Old Crow" with the silver paint being washed off after filming, so she's one of those real P-51D's.

[[CAT]CplSlade]

I actually have a fan edit of Pearl Harbor that removes all traces of the love triangle and makes it more about the actual attack - as it should have been.

Not a bad job considering there was quite a bit to hack out. There are quite a few fan edits of movies available. Obviously there are tons for Star Wars but I also have one for Kill Bill where the film is put together in chronological order that is kind of interesting. One like that for Memento as well, although I think Memento works better as intended.

I'm sure someone will edit the stupid out of Red Tails at some point.


I know they add romance to stories like this to pull in the ladies, but no one adds a car chase or gun battle to a rom-com to make the guys happy.

Will we have to start adding romantic tidbits to history textbooks in public school to get girls to learn? Is that what they think is necessary?

[ram04]

I had thought I may go see this, actually was giving it the benefit of doubt as far as CGI and all that, and after the mistake of seeing Miracle at St. Anna, which totally turned me off and I love WWII movies.

I was hopeing it would be about how hard it was for them to achieve the status they deserve and their outstanding record during WWII, but if its a semi-chick flick with all CGI and not very accurate, I'll wait to see it on DVD or HBO, Cinemax or one of the others.

[cjg476]

Miracle at St. Anna what a let down

I to wished on all that was holy to get that wasted time back. Glad to see I'm not the only one to feel this way.

[p51]

I'll list out some pros and cons for the movie here as sort of a review for those who are on the fence. I will say one IMPORTANT thing though, even if you're not sure you'll like this movie or not I suggest you DO go and see it. Why? Because if you want more WW2 movies to start popping up, this movie needs to do well. It's been a bit of a dry few years since the rush from Saving Private Ryan and Pearl Harbor. Both those movies inspired hollywood to revisit the WW2 military genre, and if Red Tails does well, it could spawn more movies about WW2. As we all know right now, Hollywood is on a 'make many movies of the same genre if the first one does well' kick, and I for one would love to see more opportunities for WW2 movies (perhaps the next Saving Private Ryan) to get the green light. I believe there's a lot riding on this film, even beyond the whole 'all black cast' as they have been talking about.

PROs:
- Overall I thought the movie was a pretty good depiction of a WW2 airfield during wartime.
- The attention to detail was pretty wonderful, from shots of the Pentagon that has been digitally redone to include 40s items and vehicles to even the music playing throughout the camp.
- The Uniforms are spot on, and the attention to detail is very well done as far as the variance you saw from guy to guy in the service. Some have bullion patches, some have standard felt ones. Some had 'pink' style Crusher caps, others had the classic OD. I spent a lot of time studying the uniforms throughout the movie, and I thought they did a wonderful job... and made me wonder where in the world all the uniforms went and how I can snag up some of them!
- The sound of the movie is amazing, much like Pearl Harbor. I don't think anyone could knock how great the sounds were in Pearl Harbor, from the aircraft to the bullets, and etc. This applies for Red Tails too. The screaming engines of the P-51s to the early sounding jet engines of the 262s, it's really well done. You find yourself feeling surrounded by aircraft with the surround sounds of the theater.
- The flight sequences are obviously all CG, but there's several times where I found myself wondering if they used some real footage as well, as there were times the CG looked so good it felt real. And they did a really good job converting the CG action into gun camera footage looking like it was right out of WW2.
- The aircraft all looked pretty accurate to me, though I admit I wasn't studying the tail markings of the aircraft throughout the movie... however it appears the correct aircraft models were used. (IE late war aluminum B-17Gs with P-51Ds and Me-262s later in the film... early B-17s with P-51B/C Mustangs earlier in the film).
- You do end up getting into the main characters a bit, though it takes some time to really learn who is who. And I felt they portrayed the struggle of the Tuskegee men with the white pilots and officers. It can be a typical movie cliche at times where the white pilot calls the black pilot the 'N' word, and a fight breaks out. But at the same time that's just how it was.
- When the squadron attacks a German airfield, I thought the CG and practical effects were REALLY impressive, and it was one of the best scenes of the movie (aside from the whole sequence when they receive the brand new P-51 Mustangs finally)
- The score, by Terence Blanchard, is really growing on me. At first I thought it wasn't very full, in the sense of not using a full orchestra to conduct but rather the type of sound you hear from video game soundtracks. But as I listen to it more, it has a modern twist on a 'Medal of Honor' classic game score mixed with 50s gung-ho WW2 movies.


CONs
- The movie seemed too fast paced at time, almost as they were trying to cram in a lot at once. There were a few times they cut too quickly to another day or moment, where it seems like the previous scene wasn't finished yet. But that's more of a cinematic edit than anything against the movie's subject.
- The cheesy dialogue is in there quite a bit, but it's not cheesier than you'd find in most 50s WW2 movies. That being said, there were a few times where the acting with these bad lines took me out of the movie briefly. Even more interesting is I found MOST of the cheesy lines were from the B-17 pilots. I'd say this was my biggest gripe with the movie as a whole.
- Yes, there were some times where it was painfully obvious the shot was CG, but it looks far better than the cutscene from some game. Some of the in-cockpit shots were obviously shot in a studio with a green screen, but they did a good job with what they could do. I thin practical effects could have worked just as fine. A gripe I had with Pearl Harbor was that when the pilots were flying you never saw any landmarks behind them in the canopy, it was always just air and maybe some smoke being blown by wind machines. At least with Red Tails you could actually make out terrain and reflections of the terrain in the cockpit. So that I have to give them props too. I think the most trouble they seemed to have with Red Tails, as far as CG goes, is with landings. Most of the landings looked really fake to me. But, on the contrary just about all the explosions, crashes, bullets, and battle scenes were VERY well done and looked pretty real.
- The ending was a bit abrupt, and left you unsure how to feel with the story of these fictional characters. It tried to leave you on a high note, but I think the movie could have gone on a little longer and expanded on it.
- The love scene. Although I was pleasantly surprised to see Daniela Ruah in the movie, and she looked really pretty, I thought it all could have been removed. Again, I realize they were building up the character so we cared about him, but that was just too cliche of every type of war movie. I also realize they wanted to make a point about a black pilot and a white Italian woman having a relationship, but again, it disrupted the flow of the movie.
- This one is a personal choice and not one that should affect anyone's seeing the movie... but I was a bit bummed they didn't use the gritty 'desaturated and grainy' style that Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers used. Plus I saw this on digital projection, so it made the movie seem more new than depicting old. I think had they ran an aging filter over the movie, it would have had a lot of the CG less noticeable.

So overall, I really liked it. I'm happy to see WW2 and especially WW2 aviation back on the screen. I'm glad new generations are going to see the sacrifices of not only the Tuskegee Airmen, but the heavily demonstrated sacrifices of the bomber crews. That alone makes the movie worth seeing. The aircraft look and sound great, and the story (for the most part) is well done. It's not a perfect movie, but it's very enjoyable and you can't help but want to stand up and yell 'HECK YES!' when the P-51s first go into combat. But don't go into this movie expecting a documentary, expect to go into it to see a fictional story based on and in the surrounding historical fact.

[Tambo]

I liked it for the most part. Did not like the way they portrayed the German pilots or I sould say the one pilot with the scar. I really wish they showed more of the True Tuskegee attitude (Honor among pilots) The real guys when they could would make sure the enemy bailed out and landed safe. I enjoyed the film for the most part....hell just the parts with the planes are well worth it.