New Merit 1/18 DAUNTLESS DISCUSSION

[King O' Fools]

Well, I can't vouch for the accuracy of the exhaust stains on the model vis-a-vis any real world SBD, but they were certainly more subdued and blurred in the promotional pics, and I certainly liked those better. Accurate or not, they seemed more 'realistic' to me.

I guess it's just a matter of perception. It's a little bit like those heavy weathered armor models — the ones with rust all over them. Yes, they look 'right' and the weathering is probably realistic for a vehicle that has sat outdoors for well over ten years, albeit maybe a tad overdone for an active duty vehicle that is serviced more or less regularly in the field. So, while the visual effect is appealing to collectors (it looks cool), it may not resemble the real thing that has seen actual combat.

This may be the case with the SBD. I don't know, maybe it's the promo pics that were inaccurate. One thing is certain, however: the production pics show a completely different depiction of the exhaust streaks.

Other than that, the model and the weathering IS outstanding from what I have seen. It's just that European etailers charge some exorbitant prices these days and the only one I have seen so far that carries the Coral Sea SBD is charging $250 for this model (plus shipping). At that price, I expect a model with subdued exhaust stains (as in the promo pics) AND a crew. I don't think it's too much to ask for $250, so I'll be passing on this one unless I can find it cheaper somewhere else in Europe.

So, sure, kudos to Merit for coming up with a much anticipated SBD in 1/18 scale at affordable prices (at least in North America). They deserve credit for bringing this model to the market. OTOH, unfortunately, etailers across the pond are trying to charge outrageous "BBI prices" and it just won't fly. Thanks but no thanks.

[norman888]

KOF-

This has more to do with where you live than some type of conspiracy against Europe. You can't try to compare US dollars to Euro without talking about exchange rates and VAT.

It's really ridiculous----if the only thing the naysayers can focus on is exhaust staining and photos on the box, this just proves how excellent this Dauntless is

[King O' Fools]

Who said anything about a conspiracy?

I don't think this can be blamed on some kind of conspiracy. It's etailer greed, pure and simple. Period. Or business as usual in the 1/18 scale market.

Err, if anything, taking exchange rates into account the retail price in Europe should be lower.

Whether Merit can release a new SBD at affordable prices in North America is irrelevant to collectors elsewhere if etailers continue to charge exorbitant prices for it. It won't make any difference to them, as they'll end up paying the same inflated prices, which means they will be less likely to support this company by purchasing this or future releases.

Question is would you be ok with discrepancies between the paint master and the final product for a $250 Coral Sea SBD?

Seriously, would you pay $250 for this model? Because if you would, I'm pretty sure Merit would gladly raise their profit margin accordingly.

If I'm going to shell out $250 for a collectible (which retails for $170 in the US), then I expect a higher added value than I would expect at $170. This notion is not really that hard to grasp, I think.

[JOC]

Just a question about difference in prices, that's all. I have no stake in this but, what would this cost if one was ordered from a US etailer and then shipped to you? How would the prices then compare?
JOC

[King O' Fools]

I have no idea to be honest. Shipping is usually calculated during or after checkout. It's entirely possible that it would be cheaper that way. Not that difficult considering the equivalent price in Euros (i.e. $170 = €136). However, I'd still have to pay a significant amount of money for shipping this item over to Europe using USPS Priority Mail International when there's a container ship on the way as we speak (ETA is mid-July according to this German online merchant). It's absurd.

And all because European etailers are a bunch of greedy bloodsuckers...

[norman888]

KOF,

Again it is very diffucult to compare pricing across borders and between different countries. I traveled to Europe in May and the exchange rate changed over 12% in the short time I was there. If I was doing my same job in Western Europe I would be getting paid more than I am in the USA---if I was doing the same job in Eastern Europe I would be making less money.

The 23% VAT is what would kill a deal from ordering this from the USA---but you are getting socialized medicine and other vacation guarantees that Americans do not get. European dealers are charging what Euros are willing to pay for a product. Where are you from in Europe--this makes a huge difference on cost.

I have to work about half a day in order to buy my Dauntless at $150USD--what does the $250USD equal in your wages?

[Nellis]

Dear King O' Fools,

I´am the owner of warbirdmodelle in Germany.
And I must say, you have no idea to calculate prices.

Do you know the wholesale price for this item from Merit?
Do you know, how much the shipping cost is for each item ( one Dauntless) from USA to Germany? 58.00 USD
Do you know, how much the german customs duty is? 6,5 % from wholesale price and shipping cost.
Do you know, that the US retail price is without Vat?
Do you know, that the Germany retail price (199,00 Euro) is include 19% Vat? 32,00 Euro
Do you know, that we have to drive to the next custom for pick up? around 80 km

So we are left with a profit of 18,00 Euro. This is much less profit as a US retailer.

You can contact me by eMail, I will show you all receipts for recalculate this.

You say: And all because European etailers are a bunch of greedy bloodsuckers...
You can come and import this to find out, how hard this business is.

Regards

Nellis

[snake]

Dear King O' Fools,

I´am the owner of warbirdmodelle in Germany.
And I must say, you have no idea to calculate prices.

Do you know the wholesale price for this item from Merit?
Do you know, how much the shipping cost is for each item ( one Dauntless) from USA to Germany? 58.00 USD
Do you know, how much the german customs duty is? 6,5 % from wholesale price and shipping cost.
Do you know, that the US retail price is without Vat?
Do you know, that the Germany retail price (199,00 Euro) is include 19% Vat? 32,00 Euro
Do you know, that we have to drive to the next custom for pick up? around 80 km

So we are left with a profit of 18,00 Euro. This is much less profit as a US retailer.

You can contact me by eMail, I will show you all receipts for recalculate this.

You say: And all because European etailers are a bunch of greedy bloodsuckers...
You can come and import this to find out, how hard this business is.

Regards

Nellis

GREAT first post, Nellis.

I know of your website, and this is an established German dealer.

Think you can trust his facts, and figures.

Certainly not Merit's fault that these cost more in Europe.

They cost more in Canada as well, as I don't get free shipping, and have to pay Customs.

Nothing to stop you ordering from a US dealer, KoF, if you think that will be cheaper. So not sure why you are venting on European dealers.

[gburch]

[First, a personal note: I've had to completely abandon all personal projects (including my beloved V-2) for many months due to a death in the family and abrupt changes in my real-world work. But I managed to find time to order the Coral Sea Dauntless.]

My Dauntless arrived at the office yesterday afternoon just as I was leaving for another extended overseas work trip. I had time to open the box and couldn't resist taking the fuselage out. All I can say is that the reviews here are right -- this is undoubtedly among the best, if not THE best 1/18 model we've ever seen. The detail, paint and construction are incredibly fine. Merit, you've hit a home run. I'll definitely get the Midway bird and any other of this mold Merit makes.

With no room to put the plane in my car, I reluctantly boxed everything back up and carefully put it away to await my return to the States, whenever that might be . . . Coming back to the Dauntless will be a real treat!

[King O' Fools]

Hi Nellis,

First of all, welcome to the board.

You wrote:

"Do you know the wholesale price for this item from Merit?"

The answer is NO, but I’d love to find out!

Your post was very enlightening and I'd really love to find out the wholesale list price for this item from Merit, should you wish to disclose this little tidbit. I would be very interested in this piece of information, as it would shed some much needed light on the state of our hobby. Right now, all we can do is speculate about it.

As far as your question: "Do you know, how much the shipping cost is for each item (one Dauntless) from USA to Germany? 58.00 USD". Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, I'm afraid.

See, after reading your post, I embarked on a little experiment:

I used the 'checkout' option on the Flying Mule's website and the quote for shipping this item — by airmail — from California to Spain is $41.08 for a single model using USPS Priority Mail International (which should take fourteen days to arrive at my doorstep according to the site).

I then went back and repeated the checkout process using 'Germany' instead as the destination country in the ship-to address. The result this time? $39.39.

Still cheaper than the wholesale shipping cost you mentioned ($58.00). How is that even possible?

If I'm not mistaken, surface mail wholesale shipping costs should be way lower than any priority airmail delivery. This is an honest question: how can you get charged that much more by your shipping carrier of choice for an expected delivery time of well over a month?

Here’s a thought: maybe you should buy the SBDs directly from the Flying Mule and re-sell them at a lower price or raise your profit margin.

I have sometimes patronized your business in the past, Nellis, and so I can attest to the fact that warbirdmodelle.de is indeed "an established German dealer" — err, who implied otherwise Snake? — but I beg to differ as to whether Nellis’ breakdown accurately reflects the cost of importing the 'Coral Sea SBD' into Germany.

Also, the higher the price tag on an item, the higher the resulting VAT amount.

If 19% VAT = €32 ($40), then the retail price (before VAT) totals €167 (approx. $210).

$250 (grand total) = $210 (retail price) + $40 (VAT)

Let's do the math, according to your breakdown:

Assuming the retail price before VAT is $210 and the per-unit wholesale shipping cost is $58/ea., plus import duties and assorted tariffs levied by German authorities ("6,5 % from wholesale price and shipping cost"), this is what we have:

[ wholesale price (W) + shipping cost (S) ] + Duties (D) + Margin (M) + VAT (19%) = $250

Let's see, if I'm not mistaken (and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):

[ $118 (W) + $58 (S) ] + $12 (D) + $22 (M) + $40 (VAT) = $250

That's roughly the wholesale price, including your profit margin of €18 (approx. $22) and other expenses your business may incur. So, considering gas prices, overhead and whatnot, I'm going to go out on a limb here and 'guestimate' a wholesale list price of under $120/ea right out of Merit’s US warehouse.

Is this correct?

PS: I'd be extremely grateful to you if you could please provide us with the wholesale list price from Merit for the Coral Sea SBD.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Regards,
KOF

[c44588]

Speaking of all these prices...who is offering the best deal on the Dauntless...both as to the Coral Sea version and as regards the Midway coming soon?

Saw badcat at $179 + free shipping on their pre-order....Midway

[Yoxford]

Allrighty then, c44588, check Badcat, Aikens, and Flyingmule...

Welcome back my friends to the actual discussion of the Merit 1/18 Dauntless. Outstanding model and standard setter that it is...and KoF, the exhaust is really not that bad, I think the lighting in some photos made it look a bit darker than what it really is in person, but also, from seeing a air show Dauntless as others have stated, up close and personal, the bugger does get a bit carboned up.

[Jim@Merit]

Well, I can't vouch for the accuracy of the exhaust stains on the model vis-a-vis any real world SBD, but they were certainly more subdued and blurred in the promotional pics, and I certainly liked those better. Accurate or not, they seemed more 'realistic' to me.

I guess it's just a matter of perception. It's a little bit like those heavy weathered armor models — the ones with rust all over them. Yes, they look 'right' and the weathering is probably realistic for a vehicle that has sat outdoors for well over ten years, albeit maybe a tad overdone for an active duty vehicle that is serviced more or less regularly in the field. So, while the visual effect is appealing to collectors (it looks cool), it may not resemble the real thing that has seen actual combat.

This may be the case with the SBD. I don't know, maybe it's the promo pics that were inaccurate. One thing is certain, however: the production pics show a completely different depiction of the exhaust streaks.

Other than that, the model and the weathering IS outstanding from what I have seen. It's just that European etailers charge some exorbitant prices these days and the only one I have seen so far that carries the Coral Sea SBD is charging $250 for this model (plus shipping). At that price, I expect a model with subdued exhaust stains (as in the promo pics) AND a crew. I don't think it's too much to ask for $250, so I'll be passing on this one unless I can find it cheaper somewhere else in Europe.

So, sure, kudos to Merit for coming up with a much anticipated SBD in 1/18 scale at affordable prices (at least in North America). They deserve credit for bringing this model to the market. OTOH, unfortunately, etailers across the pond are trying to charge outrageous "BBI prices" and it just won't fly. Thanks but no thanks.

Thank you for your input. Your observation about “Paint master” vs. “Production Sample” is correct.

If you like more subtle weathering, I think you will like the “Midway” version because the weathering is lighter since brand new SBD-3 was used by VB-6 from “USS Enterprise”.

As for the concerns about the higher MSRP including VAT in Europe,… it is our fault because we still have not secure distributors for various European Countries. Hopefully one day, with proper distribution the products will be ship via ocean from the factory and not via expensive shipping cost by air on top of the fairly expensive ocean freight to USA.

[Yoxford]

WOW....Pictures of Richard H Best's Dauntless are up on Merits site...outstanding job Merit

[gouchy]

Sweet!

http://www.merit-intl.com/month/mil-88001.html

[tmanthegreat]

...and there's Luke and R2D2 in the cockpit

The Midway Dauntless looks just as fantastic as the Coral Sea version. I'm cutting back on my "military" spending, but this one will be a must. Very nice to finally have a 1:18 aircraft from that famous battle.

[sluff]

In stock at BBTS, $164.99
http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/prod ... ode=retail

[Dauntless]

I too have cut back on my spending, but mainly because there hasn't been much to buy WWII anyway roight?

Can't pass up on any of these SBD's though.

I suppose it's a little premature to speculate on the next Dauntless after the Midway version, but it would seem appropriate to get something from 1943, since Jim mentioned the progression in WWII of versions and famous battles.

Preferably a tricolor scheme with the red outlined insignia. Sort of like the 1:32 BBI one we never got but were shown pics of. Though I suppose I would buy anything they come up with if different and interesting enough. Even if they went back in time and made a pre-war SBD.

[aferguson]

next will probably be a Guadalcanal version.

[dragon53]

Can someone confirm the details of the seven Japanese planes downed by Leppla and Liska?

My impression is that on their initial dive bomb run, gunner Liska shot down two Zeros. Leppla shot down one Zero. As they headed back to the LEXINGTON, Leppla shot down a seaplane. This is a total of four kills.
When the Japanese counterattacked with an air raid on the US fleet, Leppla and Liska were flying a different Dauntless because White 12 had been heavily damaged the day before. Gunner Liska then shot one more plane and Leppla shot down two more. This a total of three kills.
So the Coral Sea total is Leppla with four kills and Liska with three for a combined seven kills.
Is this correct?

[Yoxford]

Dragon53...from what I read they had a total of 4 kills together at Coral Sea & Sail 12 went down with Lady Lex.
Found this but lacks details...
" Lieutenant John Leppla who,with his gunner D. K. Liska,had flamed four Japanese planes the day before during the bombing attack on the carrier Shoho,now put his newfound talent to work again. Without hesitation,Leppla sent his Dauntless plunging into the deadly enemy torpedo planes heading for the Lexington. Not only did Leppla send three of these Japanese bombers careening into the water below,he also saved the life of a fellow Dauntless pilot by a daring attack on a Zero,about to shoot down the American."

I Would like to know more also about the actual breakdown of kills

[dragon53]

YOXFORD:

I'm trying to break down the details of the seven kills by Leppla and Liska because the articles I've read seem to differ in the details of the kills.
Hopefully, someone has definitive information on each of the seven kills.

[bobb428]

Awesome plane Merit!!

[big_mike]

I've been planning on waiting for the Midway as the Dauntless I buy. I can't afford both and based on the concept drawing they used to promote I was psyched. Of course I know the art is always slightly different than the paint master and so on and so forth. But I can't help but feel a little disappointed with the end result. It's still a good looking plane and I'll be happy to own one of either paint jobs. I'm just not sure which I prefer at this point.

[tmanthegreat]

Anyone (particularly Jim@Merit) have any insight as to when the S2 scheme is officially coming out? Badcat's website is noting an August release date, but most other retailers are saying December. My initial thought was on the later date, but given that most of the tooling is already done for this, I don't see why it couldn't be August...

Just curious