New 1/18 Fw-190D

Jnewboy · Post by **Jnewboy** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:19 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :MESELX:IT

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:11 am

I have a question on this topic. I was always under the impression that we were not allowed to advertise our own eBay auctions in the open discussion forum. I have noticed, especially lately, that a few board members have been posting their auctions here. Why can’t these auction postings be located to the BST section like all the others are? I can see why some eBay links are posted like that of the Tender Terror post and others like it. I can see the reason why pickelhaube posts as he has a long drawn out process that he involves everyone in from the very start of a build plus its not eBay related. But auctions should be in the BST area correct? That’s what its there for isn’t it? I know people like to post here as they believe it will get them more press but I believe the best place for these types of posts are in the section dedicated to them. Eventually everyone will start posting their auctions here if we don’t start managing these types of posts a bit better. What does everyone else think? Am I the only one that feels this way?

I don’t mean to single Jnewboy out here but his posts seem to be the most prevalent lately. I know there are a few other eBay advertisements in this forum as well.

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:36 am

Ditto. This section should not contain individual member's customized models or their personal models. That is what BST is for. Since Pickel is practically a small manufacturer, and should be allowed wherever his news is read the most, after all, who has produced more than Pickel in 1/18 these days?

TTT

Jnewboy · Post by **Jnewboy** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:00 am

Both of you need to consider the following;

1. My customs were posted here on this forum for years before I was a member by different board members, not the customs forum, not the B/S/T forum. Often to ridicule them, I joined this forum to both converse with all of you but to also be able to defend my work from all of it that by the way did cost me business as some buyers began giving credibility to the claims. If it was right or wrong is not the point, the point is when someones work is being slandered the person has the right to defend it and I thank those of you who did stand up for me.

2. I do not post all my personal projects on here to show everyone. I only post items that are for sale, are in 1/18 and are absolutely unique items, who people that look at this 1/18 scale forum want to see and buy. The notion that everyone is going to post their adds here is ridiculousness. If I quit this forum tomorrow and posted an item for sale next week someone would post it here wanting input because it is a unique item. People do not do post my items for the most part anymore because they know I'm a member and wait for me to post it here with the exception of the the "Stummel" that was posted here after they saw it on Ebay but had not looked at the customs forum. The customs forum is usually browsed by fellow modelers comparing projects not the general audience of 1/18 collectors who like to see unique 1/18 items come up for sale like Pickelhaube's work. To say that one should be allowed and another should not due to volume of work is ridiculous as we both offer custom work for sale in 1/18, something that is becoming more and more rare these days and true fans of the scale are always reminding me of and applauding me for my continued work in the scale as I applaud Pickelhaube's work who in my opinion is keeping this scale alive. If people like us left this scale what would be left? nothing new, the same people swapping the same items with nothing new coming on the market. You both should be happy that there are unique items still made in the scale and thankful that we take the time to post our work here on this 1/18 scale forum. I know that the majority of you agree with me and would appreciate you speaking up on this thread so this issue can be put to rest. Thanks

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:21 am

First let me restate that this is an issue regarding the personal posting by members of their own eBay auctions for the purpose of promoting a sale. Not discussion. Discussion of a custom item can be done by simply posting photos and asking what others think. The posting above was created with one purpose only, to make a sale.

I have been under the impression, correct me if I’m wrong, that the posting of eBay auctions by the items owners was relegated to the Buy, Sell, and Trade forum. If this unwritten rule has changed please let me know as I’m fairly confident that other postings similar to this have been moved in the past. Even TheHun (AKA The Woofer), one of the most impressive ebay customizers I have ever seen, keeps his posts in the BST area.

Maybe I’m confused on this rule. If so then its time to clarify it. Is this type of post allowed on the main discussion forum?

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:17 pm

Top compare Jnewb's work customizing and Pickel's work creating new models or modifying existing models for sale is in fact just silly. No comparison exists.

I have not criticided work posted here by you.

I simply agree with Toykd that your models belong in BST. Period. Because to feel your work is exempt from normal forum rules is flat out wrong.

TTT

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:59 pm

Sorry Jnewboy, but i'm with the ttt & toyktdlgh on this one. Your customs are getting very good, but you've already got this bird posted in the Customs section (where it's getting the recognition it deserves). Seeing it again as an ebay link in the 18th section is making the sauce taste bit sour.
We can't do without you, but you gotta take care of your paperwork son

tankduel · Post by **tankduel** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:14 pm

Jnewboys sales posts need to go in BST. I never understood why Pickel doesn't have a section in 'Direct from the source' for his posts which otherwise belong in BST too.
My 2 cents.
Nev

Jnewboy · Post by **Jnewboy** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:18 pm

Im not going to get into a pissing contest with you guys, I said my peace.

TTT you have criticized my work plenty of times before I was a member, lets not kid, I dont care about that but I deserve to be able to defend it even if its wrong.

Jay this forum did great without me for years lets not kid about that ether.
Sometimes I think it was a mistake to join at all, to much time wasted (like this)

toyktdlgh don't hold it against me for not wanting to sell you the pioneer wagon gun for $10

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:27 pm

Guys.........have i missed something? I think my browser is screwed cos I feel like i'm missing a whole page of discussion

.

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:56 pm

I guess it is a pissing contest. Sorry Jnewb but I don't remember having a problem with your work "lots of times" which is a stretch but I guess, if I did have "lots" of comments on your work, it had to be about something that needed correction to be realistic.

I never comment on the quality of a guys work unless it is not realistic. Not being a modeler myself, I would never comment on crappy work, as long as it is realistic.

Your sales belong in BST. Period.

TTT

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:14 pm

Jnewboy, I am sorry that you feel I have singled you out for any reason other than the possible infringement of forum rules. If you take a moment to look over the previous posts you will see at no point did I ever attack you or be overly harsh on you for repeatedly breaking the forum rules. In fact I mentioned that there were others that had done it as well and asked to be set straight if I was incorrect in thinking that this was not the appropriate location for this type of post.

I was in the middle of answering your pointed private message to me when I noticed you had posted again here. Since you have decided to address the issue here I will answer it here instead. The communications we had a few weeks ago regarding the Pioneer Wagon gun that I had been searching for had nothing to do with this post. As far as I was concerned that topic had ended with my last reply to you. I never got a reply back so I figured that I was correct and left it at that. I’ll post it here as a refresher:

“I get the impression you only mentioned it as an enticement for your Tiger sale. I think since I really needed it I pushed a bit harder on it than I should of. I’ll keep looking. I’m sure someone here has one they don’t mind selling. Thanks”

That was the last communication we had on the topic. Did I sound angry with you? Did I sound like I was holding a grudge? I’m actually quite surprised that you think there is an issue between up prior to this post.

As I stated earlier this has only to do with board members posting their eBay auctions here in this section. I just don’t get what the big deal is here or why you have blown it out of proportion by bringing up past items that have no relation to the topic. You act like you deserve special rights since you have built some customs. Just do what everyone else does and post them in the BST area. What’s so bad about that? Most people would have simply replied with a “woops, I guess I didn’t realize it wasn’t allowed” or an “ok, let’s see what the mods have to say about it.” Dang!

Jnewboy · Post by **Jnewboy** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:53 pm

They were here long before I became a member and will be posted by members probably long after I dont care anymore. I will never post anything in the BST forum. The buyers on the BST forum are looking for something they can get on the cheap from someone unwilling to deal with eBay. Not one of a kind items...

B17Fortress · Post by **B17Fortress** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:56 pm

Jnewboy, TTT, and toyktdlgh, I can see where all of you are coming from, and here are my 2 cents.

1. If any member wants to write a post that provides a link to an ebay or other site that has a purpose of selling shall post it in the B/S/T forum

2. Should a member wish to display a model that is on an ebay or other site, they shall do so in the custom and mod forum with pictures from a link that is not ebay or other site. This means displaying personal photographs without taking the reader to a site that entices making a purchase.

3. As to avoid provoking an immature argument, members should not single out personal events with the intent of hurting or forcing the other member to retract from the argument due to personal reasons.

4. If people are attacking a members work, said member can post a comment in defense but are not allowed to post a link to ebay or other site to defend a model just by making the other members view it.

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:16 pm

B17fortress, while I appreciate your take on this issue I think lumping us all into the same group here is a mistake. I seriously doubt I could have been any more tactful in my delivery on this issue. While I expected there to be a bit of controversy I too was hoping for some good old fashioned discussion followed by a reasonable solution. Instead we got something quite different and neither me not TTT were on the attack. Most of us here have been quite mature in the handling of this. Unfortunately it did get personal for someone and I apologize if my bringing this subject up has hurt anyone’s feelings. It still doesn’t change the fact that we need some resolution on this topic.

B17Fortress · Post by **B17Fortress** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:57 pm

With my post, I was attempting to establish guidelines for when events like this happen in the future.

toyktdlgh, I respect that you and TTT are not attacking Jnewboy, nor is Jnewboy attacking either of you, but I wish that this will be resolved quickly as to avoid grudges amongst this community.

flyboy_fx · Post by **flyboy_fx** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:04 pm

In before the Lock!

lol. IMO, it's not like Jnewboy really spams the crap out of us. Maybe he should just make a Jnewboys auctions in the main section? :/

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:18 pm

flyboy_fx wrote:In before the Lock! lol.

lmao

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:04 pm

ok.

A while ago, Jnew pm'd me and asked if it would be alright if he posted his items for sale in the main forum. I told him no. I explained my reasons and they pretty much mirror what toyktdlgh said. Jnew went ahead anyway and started posting ebay links in the main forum. While his disregard for what i had said ticked me off, i let it slide because some members seemed to enjoy it and it seemed to be doing no harm, for the moment.

I anticipated the exact problem we are now seeing, however.....that other members would object. The other inevitable fallout is that others will feel entitled (rightly so) to post their custom items for sale here. So where does it stop? Jackson posts his custom decals? Any tom, dick and harry who makes a custom piece of garbage can post here too? Is it fair to rule out some on the basis of my perception of quality, which is purely subjective?

Long ago, we had no cutoms forum and the main forum was used. It became glutted with customs and members complained that information on new products was being obscured by custom threads. So P-51 created the customs secton.

However, 1/18 was much busier then, then it is now. Very little in the way of new product is released, these days so the problem of cluttering up other threads is diminished.

Pickelhaube has always been and will always be, welcome to post here. He is essentially a manufacturer and i can't see anyone objecting if BBI or Allgo wanted to post here and let us participate in the development of their next release. No difference between them and PH, in my view.

Jnew is not a 'manufacturer'....something i told him in our pm conversation. He makes one off customs. Quality is irrelevent in my view. But because they are one offs, i don't consider him to be anything like PH. If he made them in batches it woud be different, then he would be a small manufacturer. Up til now they have been one offs. This fourm was not created so that Jnew, or anyone else, could have a nice free way of selling their stuff to a large targeted audience. For that, P-51 created the b/s/t forum.

However, in an attempt to be fair to all, and acknowledge the concerns of as many as possible, i propose a compromise solution.

Since 1/18 is so dead, i don't see the harm in people posting their customs for sale in the main forum with the following provisos:

1. They must of course be 1/18 and military

2. They must ALL be confined to one thread, which can be updated as often as is wished. But no individual threads for different subjects. That way anyone who is interested can look at Jnew's or anyone elses thread and for those who don't want to it can be easily ignored and won't cause very much clutter in the 1/18 forum

3. Customs shown MUST be listed on ebay or some other high profile internet site. This will help prevent the inevitable wise guy who cobbles together some piece of garbage, just to prove a point or make a joke. By listing it on ebay, costs are encurred and it gives at least a sense of legitimacy of intent for an honest sale.

4. If the 1/18 forum gets busy again in the future, this policy will be rescinded and all customs for sale will again have to be listed in b/s/t

5. P-51 knows nothing about this so as always, he has the final say and if he says no to this then it is no.

Will that satisfy everyone?

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:20 pm

I think that’s a great solution.

Jnewboy · Post by **Jnewboy** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:09 pm

I have no problem with that, I am happy that people will continue to see my work here. Thanks for a fair ruling on this. I sincerely hope someday 1/18 is rolling fast again someday but till then I guess we have me and the rest of the customization folks.

PS Any of you that have not checked out the customs forum lately there is a guy over there with a 1/18 He-219 Uhu

flyboy_fx · Post by **flyboy_fx** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:30 pm

HE HAS SPOKEN! *Lightning and Thunder*

gburch · Post by **gburch** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:45 am

Seems fair to me. I had real doubts about posting my "3d Printing Diary" in this forum once it went from "hey, what about 3d printing?" to "want to watch me lose my mind while I try to create a viable V-2 kit?" This flexibility on the mod's part makes me feel a little less like I'm violating rules.

KWR190 · Post by **KWR190** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:17 am

You told him NO and he still did it. I say NO that was the rules from the start.

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:54 am

KWR190 wrote:You told him NO and he still did it. I say NO that was the rules from the start.

To be honest I feel the same way but since the forum is so slow I can see why Andrew wants to allow it in a more contained setting. Sometimes a compromise is in order. I personally do not feel any eBay related sales should be allowed to be posted here at all. Those were the original rules and I feel they made good sense. I just don’t see the need since we have a dedicated area however if it satisfies 90% of us then I’m satisfied. My concern was that we would start seeing many more eBay related ads in the open forum.

Can anyone tell me what’s wrong with posting in the BST? I know it was mentioned that the buyers there are looking for cheap deals but they are the same people that are here. I’m looking the BST forum over way more than I do this one.

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