Foxhole: 21st Century "Gray" 88mm -$79.99

[aferguson]

AllGo can definitely block US sales of items they hold rights to. They can't stop them from being produced in China, but if they can stop US sales that will pretty much achieve the same goal as they will be difficult to unload and thus curtail further production.

I suspect the re-use of the 21c box was a bit of a F-you from the chinese, since Allgo has been challenging them for a while on ownership rights. Up til now, any former 21st items were released in new packaging. It coud also be that this is not a JSI release but some other manufacturer who happens to have the 88 molds and couldn't be bothered to re-do the packaging, especially when there may have been lots of old packaging lying around unused.

What the chinese are doing is just coproate business tactics. US businesses would be doing exactly the same thing if they felt they could get away with it. I think we all have seen plenty of evidence of the moral attitudes and character of corporate big wigs.

[Dauntless]

Yes, the corporate world is brutal, but there are also rules to the game, which are put in place to protect the ones who do all the groundwork and innovation only to have the rug pulled out from under them by the ones who don't follow any set of rules.

Why bother inventing anything if you can't enjoy the fruits of your hard work? It's disgusting.

[AMERICAN_GRENADIER]

my brother works for a company that builds robotic parts. he says they usually get about 2 months before the Chinese pirate the item. there is little they can do since the Chinese governmant is fine with the results. the Chinese go a bit more organized crime than the average company. world wide they estimate over 500 thousand internet hacking incidents a month from China alone.
thats big.

[DropTank]

world wide they estimate over 500 thousand internet hacking incidents a month from China alone.
thats big.

A converted factory in China houses thousands of folks who report to work everyday to master the process of hacking into computers from corporations, governments and military's from around the globe, completely santioned by the China government. The fact that their company's operate on the shady side is not surprising. While AllGo is being shafted, one must realize doing business in China opens one up to their motto, "All's fair in Love and Business".

[KKH]

There is nothing that will deter the Chinese to further the advance of their ideas. Everything is done with NO regard for anything else than the country itself. We see proof of that every day, not only the business side but cyber wide and in all areas. They are our number one concern NOW and in the immediate future....but I digress...

[Dauntless]

It would be ok if it was their ideas, but they're not. What have they invented lately?

[AMERICAN_GRENADIER]

its cheaper to steal than invent

[KKH]

I should say...ideaology. Their reach is becoming somewhat concerning in many areas. Correct... they don't invent much at all. Everyone elses with their twist on it.

[TankAce]

All Go toys is more interested in making airplanes.Probably because there is more people in to it.But with so many pirates,it would have been smarter to sold the molds if they did not have the intent to use them. I think the Chinese saw the opportunity and grab it.Specially since they have a good excuse saying that this are old stock found on a warehouse.All go need to start using every mold they own and make some changes like a firefly turret for the Sherman,etc before the Chinese do it.I hope i am not giving any ideas to the Chinese.
As much happy we are that at least some one buy our beloved 21st century company and is making repaints, our troops needs those gray 88's
I support all go toys,but all go need to support our needs too.

[lancelot]

yeah, All Go seems to be very sluggish as of late, or rather as of always, and with their inability to produce a simple P-51 it's hard for me to really take them seriously as an alleged company. If All-Go isn't willing nor able to make products I like then that really gives consumers such as myself only one option, buy from people who can and are willing to make the mentioned products. Not that I really want to come off as a morally degenerate person, but I feel that All-Go/21st toys has made bad business decisions in the past that can't simply be blamed on the American economy. As a result they have put themselves (from my perspective of course) in this mess and as a result the people who love and enjoy this fantastic hobby have been suffering not just from a shortage in new innovative products but products new and old in general for the past few years due to their mistakes. Ebay prices are only getting higher and All Go hasn't been able to do a thing about it. Now I wouldn't pay eighty bucks for an $80 for an 88mm, I'm a cheap bastard, but I wouldn't blame people for getting them if they truly wanted to spend the money on it.

P.S. where's that Jagdpanther?

[MCalamari]

I thought AllGo was focusing on 1:32 aircraft for now?

-M

[CW4USARMY]

BigBadToyStore.com ( whom I trust and use often) just listed this for preorder of 74.99.
I'm guessing they haven't heard the latest? or jsi is still shipping to some etailers?

[aferguson]

or AllGo hasn't contacted them with the legalities of it yet. You may well see the pre-order come down shortly.

And i don't think it's JSI behind it. If JSI had the 88 molds we would have seen it before now...plus they developed their own packaging. This is somebody else's doing.

[Jim@Merit]

or AllGo hasn't contacted them with the legalities of it yet. You may well see the pre-order come down shortly.

And i don't think it's JSI behind it. If JSI had the 88 molds we would have seen it before now...plus they developed their own packaging. This is somebody else's doing.

Thank you for your assumption which is correct. JSI and Merit has nothing to do with this matter.

[CW4USARMY]

No offense intended. I assumed it was JSI because they use 21st molds. Went back and looked at the preorder and it shows being made by 21st Century

[AMERICAN_GRENADIER]

i believe that JSI hasnt made a product yet is do to the fact that the molds belong to 21c and many issues have come to light

[aferguson]

these have hit ebay. Not sure whether to buy or not. I feel like i'm pulling the rug out from under AllGo. I wonder if Allgo will be able to block ebay sales?

http://cgi.ebay.com/21st-WWII-German-88 ... 1e64a89ed8

[normandy]

What is ebays policy on the sale of stolen property?

[aferguson]

well, officially, they have gotten tough with bootleg items....mostly cd's, fake purses and shoes stuff like that. So if AllGo were to present them with the same legal matter they are apparently sending to online etailers, Ebay may pull the plug on this auction.

In reality.......ebay makes a ton of money from the sale of 'fake' items and only does something about it when forced to.

Technically, these are not fake items. They are items being produced without permission, which is a bit different. Plus the seller is China based, so i don't know if Allgos legalities would even apply, despite the fact that Ebay is US based.

Ebay does move quickly against sellers so they may pull the plug first and ask questions later, or they may seek legal clarification first or they may just ignore Allgo. I have no idea.

As far as selling 'stolen property', of course ebay is against it and have actually helped officials many times catch and jail people sellng stolen goods. But those goods are stolen out of the back of a truck, from a warehouse, shoplifted etc. These aren't. So whether they would be considered 'stolen' i'm not sure. I know AllGo considers them stolen and i don't blame them.

I wonder why it has taken, whoever is behind the production of these, so long to bring them to market. These would have been hot sellers a couple of years ago. Maybe nobody in china thought of it, or maybe they didn't have the money to get them made? Who knows.

[normandy]

When I saw your post (these have hit ebay) 2 had already sold, I just looked and 2 more sold. Someone's not concerned about the legality of this product.
I find it interesting the seller only had 8 for sale...... maybe trying to keep a low profile?

[AMERICAN_GRENADIER]

if you noticed the guys in CHINA!

[aferguson]

yes i said that

[coreystinson]

My understanding is that these 88's are old factory/warehouse inventory (tan versions) that are actually being repainted grey, and maybe some that had never been painted and are now being painted grey. We'll have to see which or if both is the case if some of you guys buy some off of eBay. This would also explain the 21st Century box which would have otherwise been totally unnecessary and even detrimental to marketing from a trademark issue standpoint.

All-Go gains nothing from raising a stink about this or harassing U.S. retailers. That product exists and it will be sold by someone. Since it will now likely not be sold by U.S. retailers due to All-Go threats, it will instead be sold on eBay by Chinese sellers. Since all those tools still exist and are sitting around in some warehouse, possibly being held hostage over debt, you may expect to see plenty of new items hitting the market using those tools on into the future - and again, if it isn't a U.S. retailer selling them it will just be Chinese eBay sellers. All-Go should seriously consider being pragmatic and doing what needs to be done to get some product out there even if they have to share the operational aspects w/ another distributor or investor, especially considering that all of their own proposals have been vapor-ware thus far and that includes the 1:32 scale birds which have not shown up on time despite vociferous promises I received to the contrary earlier this year with no communication in the interim on progress.

Also, I do find it amusing to see Merit popping in here implying a high road when they were themselves involved in distributing totally newly manufactured items that used 21st Century tooling w/ o permission. Ha!

[coreystinson]

I find it interesting the seller only had 8 for sale...... maybe trying to keep a low profile?

Most eBay sellers keep the quantity available under 10 to imply limited availability and as you can see that marketing strategy works.

[Tinman]

You know, I've wanted one of these since reading dragon 53's post on June 15. But even then it felt to me like something wasn't right, so I didn't place a preorder with Foxhole or BadCat (which turned out to be just as well).

Now, as a certified 1/18 maniac, I'd normally jump right on the ebay sales and nab one. But I just can't do it. Despite how much I want one, I'm staying away unless it becomes crystal clear that there are no ethical concerns here.