1/18 Ho-229 Project Build ( Retired ) !!

[aferguson]

well, the invasion of Russia itself wasn't the undoing of Germany. They very, very nearly succeeded. As premised in the alternate history above, if the invasion had taken place early May instead of late June, then Moscow would probably have fallen before the worst of the winter weather set in that year. With Moscow gone that changes everything. Russia would have been back on its heals and probably never recovered. Which means no Stalingrad, no Kursk, no using up to 80% of all resources to battle the Russians in a losing cause.

It also means more resources could have gone to Africa, so perhaps the Germans don't lose their foothold there. No Italy...hence no fall of Italy and the loss of the Italian resources. Overlord would have zero chance as the entire western wall would have been far more heavily manned and fortified than it was.

The bombing campaign would have continued but with more AA guns at home (less needed to battle the now well contained and rather impotent russians), far more fighter resources, since fewer planes needed in Russia. No loss of the Caucausses, which means lots of fuel supplies and with a much larger figher force at home to defend Germany, there would be much higher allied bomber losses and much less destruction of german industry, especally refining capacity.

So no great fuel shortages grounding the luftwaffe defense force. The impetus to develop jets would still have been there, so the 262 would still have become operatonal around the time it did but now with scads of piston engined fighers to protect them during landing/take offs. So the bomber offensive would have been far more costly and far less effective for the allies. Given that it was nearly called off twice during the actual war, due to losses, it is quite possible it would have been called off for real in this alternate history. And with no Overlord that means no airbases in France from which to attack german airfields, armour conentrations etc etc.

All possible if Barbarossa had happened a few weeks earlier. Amazing.

Which brings us back the the atomic bomb. Which i have little doubt would have eventually resulted in the defeat of Germany but quite possibly not an unconditional surrender and certainly with horrific loss of life, not to mention the enviornmental consequences of many atomic bomb detonations.

[Jackson]

well, the invasion of Russia itself wasn't the undoing of Germany. They very, very nearly succeeded. As premised in the alternate history above, if the invasion had taken place early May instead of late June, then Moscow would probably have fallen before the worst of the winter weather set in that year. With Moscow gone that changes everything. Russia would have been back on its heals and probably never recovered. Which means no Stalingrad, no Kursk, no using up to 80% of all resources to battle the Russians in a losing cause.

It also means more resources could have gone to Africa, so perhaps the Germans don't lose their foothold there. No Italy...hence no fall of Italy and the loss of the Italian resources. Overlord would have zero chance as the entire western wall would have been far more heavily manned and fortified than it was.

The bombing campaign would have continued but with more AA guns at home (less needed to battle the now well contained and rather impotent russians), far more fighter resources, since fewer planes needed in Russia. No loss of the Caucausses, which means lots of fuel supplies and with a much larger figher force at home to defend Germany, there would be much higher allied bomber losses and much less destruction of german industry, especally refining capacity.

So no great fuel shortages grounding the luftwaffe defense force. The impetus to develop jets would still have been there, so the 262 would still have become operatonal around the time it did but now with scads of piston engined fighers to protect them during landing/take offs. So the bomber offensive would have been far more costly and far less effective for the allies. Given that it was nearly called off twice during the actual war, due to losses, it is quite possible it would have been called off for real in this alternate history. And with no Overlord that means no airbases in France from which to attack german airfields, armour conentrations etc etc.

All possible if Barbarossa had happened a few weeks earlier. Amazing.

Which brings us back the the atomic bomb. Which i have little doubt would have eventually resulted in the defeat of Germany but quite possibly not an unconditional surrender and certainly with horrific loss of life, not to mention the enviornmental consequences of many atomic bomb detonations.

true Aferg but the severe depletion of the Wermacht and Luftwaffe as it happened in Russia severely depleted the Germans of their finest assets and most likely their would have been no Overlord due to the Allies knowing that Germany could cover the whole western front and that the Luftwaffe and the Wermacht would of turned back any attempt at any invasion of of the European continent...

[tmanthegreat]

Quite frankly, all other things aside, I've often wondered what would have happend had the Germans solely focused on Russia (you know, the whole defeating Communism, etc) from the get-go and left Western Europe alone... would they have succeeded and would they have gotten some of the other European powers to go along with them in some sort of great anti-communist crusade? I've often felt that while defeating the western powers did sort of free them up to go after Russia, it also over-stretched them into a two-front war so that in the end, Germany could not possibly compete against Russia.

My question kind of draws on several elements including competing inner-war political ideologies and the fact that all major western european nations had strong conservative, fascist-leaning elements in their governments. Also, in the bitter end, the some of SS contingents that defended the last vestiges of the 3rd Reich in Berlin were largely made up of non-German troops.

In my scenario, however, Poland still winds up being in the way

Now to get back on the topic of the HO-229...

[Jackson]

Quite frankly, all other things aside, I've often wondered what would have happend had the Germans solely focused on Russia (you know, the whole defeating Communism, etc) from the get-go and left Western Europe alone... would they have succeeded and would they have gotten some of the other European powers to go along with them in some sort of great anti-communist crusade? I've often felt that while defeating the western powers did sort of free them up to go after Russia, it also over-stretched them into a two-front war so that in the end, Germany could not possibly compete against Russia.

My question kind of draws on several elements including competing inner-war political ideologies and the fact that all major western european nations had strong conservative, fascist-leaning elements in their governments. Also, in the bitter end, the some of SS contingents that defended the last vestiges of the 3rd Reich in Berlin were largely made up of non-German troops.

In my scenario, however, Poland still winds up being in the way yes along those lines of conjecture..they owned the Western continent of Europe as it was..now if they would of left Russia alone and solely concentrated on the Brits the Brits would fallen shortly thereafter..now back to Spikedudes marvelous flying Manta[/color]
[/color]
Now to get back on the topic of the HO-229...

[Dauntless]

Lots of ifs. If the Germans would have stopped at Dunkirk, fortified defenses, then immediately concentrated on Russia. The delay as Aferg said caused them to enter operations in Russia a little too late. The tenacious Brits definitely effected the outcome of the war. (Spitfires and Hurricanes save the world?)

Hitler's army treated POW's for the most part according to the rules of warfare. Unlike Russia, unlike Japan, but the reverse is true to how he treated civilians, and especially certain ethnic groups, who in other countries at the time and to this day control most of the worlds banking, with lots of money and anger to finance an opposing side. Certain things he could have not done would have made a difference in allied attitudes. Especially when most in the US had no love for communism.

Delaying the proper deployment of the ME-262 in it's main purpose, a fighter, instead of a bomber Hitler insited, much to Adolf Galland's chagrin was a stupid mistake.

Anyways following the build.

[Heer]

Hitler should have "gotten ride of" the UK before invading the USSR. However, I always thought that the germans invaded Russia to early. I would have waited for one year, building up tanks and forces before invading the USSR,

[Bar]

Hitler should have "gotten ride of" the UK before invading the USSR. However, I always thought that the germans invaded Russia to early. I would have waited for one year, building up tanks and forces before invading the USSR,

Too true.
I read a time travel novel recently, and a bunch of military guys boost a time machine and go back to hitler's bunker. The expectation is that they are going there to kill him, but they give him intel and make him sign a non aggression pact with the USSR and paving the way for hitler to take over Europe in it's entirety.
It was a refreshing twist on the usual stories.

[Jnewboy]

You have all made good points but also left out key elements that decided Germans fate. Many say that if the Battle of Britain had never happened, many say if Hitler had not let the armies escape at Dunkirk, many say that the simple addition of the Afrika corp never being sent and Rommel and those divisions used in Russia, some even say if the Lucy spy ring had been discovered by the Gestapo before 1943 they would have won. The truth is guys, simply looking at logistics (numbers of T-34s) Germany's only real hope in beating Russia lies in a three fold solution, two parts of which should have happened before the invasion even happened.

#1 The weather was not the only problem in the first Moscow drive, 20 fresh divisions with snow equipment were sent from the far east on the trains-Siberian express. This should never have happened. Germany and Japan failed to plan and cooperative the way they should have to realize their ambitions. Japan should have simultaneously attacked Russia with a large ground invasion from mainland Japan and occupied China.This would have kept those 20 divisions where they were or more. (No Pearl Harbor) Japan should have brokered a deal to supply them with oil from the Caucasus as they were being starved of oil by us hence the attack at pearl....

#2 Hitler should have done less of a smash and grab campaign and more of a hearts and minds campaign if blitzkrieg failed. The soviets hatted Stalin, for good reason! The atrocities on the soviet people were stupid and instead they should have made themselves as more of liberators not occupiers. The result could have been chaos and civil war behind Soviet lines and in the Soviet Army and not behind German lines as it was with the partisans and sabotage, plus large recruitment opportunities, there was an entire SS division of Russians that hatted Stalin as it was, can you imagine what it would have been if the Germans had fed the inhabitants and played nice...

#3 The Germans invaded Russia without any good long range bomber. Soon after the invasion factories were shipped to behind the Ural mountains out of range for any He-111. No invasion should have happened without a 4 engine or 6 engine bomber(JU-390) that could span half the distance of the soviet union and should have been based in Japan also, with a long range fighter escort. If the Germans could have carried out a campaign of strategic bombing on those factories and the trans-Siberian Railway it could have cut the T-34 numbers drastically.

Thats my two cents..

[CW4USARMY]

Ok, but how's the build going Pickelhaube?

[Heer]

Hitler should have "gotten ride of" the UK before invading the USSR. However, I always thought that the germans invaded Russia to early. I would have waited for one year, building up tanks and forces before invading the USSR,

Too true.
I read a time travel novel recently, and a bunch of military guys boost a time machine and go back to hitler's bunker. The expectation is that they are going there to kill him, but they give him intel and make him sign a non aggression pact with the USSR and paving the way for hitler to take over Europe in it's entirety.
It was a refreshing twist on the usual stories.

Or Hitler could have been nicer to the Russians,tell them that they will feed them and that they are there to "liberate them", and then launch a giant propaganda campaign and say that Stalin was a criminal, tyrant, etc. The russian people and the army might revolt against the soviet government, and then Hitler will have the perfect opportunity to "install" a new gov. of his choice. Just my thoughts.

[Jnewboy]

"Or Hitler could have been nicer to the Russians,tell them that they will feed them and that they are there to "liberate them", and then launch a giant propaganda campaign and say that Stalin was a criminal, tyrant, etc. The russian people and the army might revolt against the soviet government, and then Hitler will have the perfect opportunity to "install" a new gov. of his choice. Just my thoughts. "

I just said that Brother!!!

[Heer]

"Or Hitler could have been nicer to the Russians,tell them that they will feed them and that they are there to "liberate them", and then launch a giant propaganda campaign and say that Stalin was a criminal, tyrant, etc. The russian people and the army might revolt against the soviet government, and then Hitler will have the perfect opportunity to "install" a new gov. of his choice. Just my thoughts. "

I just said that Brother!!!

Sorry, I missed your comment.

[normandy]

Here's another cool pic, 229 with a 262.......


Pickel, I am So looking forward to this kit!

[Jnewboy]

Have you decided to make the two man night-fighter yet?

[pickelhaube]

Have you decided to make the two man night-fighter yet?

To be honest I have not given the night fighter a seconds thought.

I am busy just trying to get the single seat out.

[Jnewboy]

Have you decided to make the two man night-fighter yet?

To be honest I have not given the night fighter a seconds thought.

I am busy just trying to get the single seat out.

[normandy]

Jnewboy, the night-fighter may be the first custom of the custom 229.... You should have no problems with this one, you do some great work!


I thought of you when I saw this paint scheme......

[aferguson]

hm...interesting swastika placement. I rather like that.

[Jnewboy]

Thats cool! If I get a NJ version in the future I may paint it similar but would go with darker grays.

Hey has the decals been finalized yet? are they included in the kit price? I never saw a final word about it....

[pickelhaube]

Well I tell you doing a one of a kind build sure is easier than making things that will be reproduced . Also making something function is even harder to do.

I finally engineered the canopy to open and close. I still need to tweak it but here is about 3 days worth of work !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe it myself. It still needs to be cleaned up a bit.





The original nose gear was installed under the pilot's seat. If he had a hard landing, I could just imagine what would have happened


The gear folded and tucked in behind the pilot. Making a second crew man tough to fit in. I imagine they would designed the wheel to rotate and fold flat like the P-40 you could get a guy back there. Night Fighter ?




There could be a strong possibility that I may have to make the nose gear fold backwards in order to give a little adjustment and strength .It will probably have to mount on the bottom of the cockpit floor. A single tube may work. But the way resin acts you will not have a lot of play . I could make the end of the nose gear strut a " t " at the end. Mounting it would be easier and if it is made into a "t " it will be able to fold back words.

[gburch]

Words fail. A true masterpiece!

[Jnewboy]

Looks unbelievably good!!

Sounds like you already have a plan but I would have strongly considered the drop it-detachable landing gear rather than the intricate accurate folding landing gear. If you get to complex some of these kit buyers might start shiting themselves....

Im game, you know that, whatever way you want to build it Ill put it together just a thought...

Decals?? are we still on for the $250 kit price??

[Jnewboy]

The gear folded and tucked in behind the pilot. Making a second crew man tough to fit in. I imagine they would designed the wheel to rotate and fold flat like the P-40 you could get a guy back there. Night Fighter ?

Check out this site:

http://www.swannysmodels.com/Ho229.html

you see the parts sheet to DML's nightfighter, you can see that the front gear door is simply farther back, coming in behind the navigator, no rotation, same design.

[normandy]

[flyboy_fx]

Good ole BF1942 secret weapons.