Dragon 1/6 Panzer II C..if it is real, I'll get it

[Panzer_M]

I would be sure to get that over a Tiger or Panther.

[Panzer_M]

when you look at the 1/144 and diecast space stuff next to the Pz II, it's really not a big vehicle in 1/6, I think the old 21st Century Toys M5 Stuart was bigger.

[aferguson]

wow, that is cool beans. What's the price tag going to be on it? I assume it will come painted in a choice of schemes?

[usmcchet9296]

Rumor has it there will be a limited assembled run followed buy a general kit release. i would prefer the kit version as it is normally cheaper than the assembled verion.

[AMERICAN_GRENADIER]

looks like i may see this at ihobby

[1958Zelda]

I want one!

[Panzer_M]

I've built a few of the guns. my Fav is the 2cm FlaK 38, although IT is more of a toy than a static model, I am fine with that.

as for the guns, the CyberHobby 7.5cm le IG 18 w. spoked wheels is on my dream list of stuff. But the 8cm GrW, 2cm FlaK 38 and 8.8cm RW 43 "Puppchen" take up too space as is, plus the MGs scattered about.

[Threetoughtrucks]

Rumor has that the completed show special will run around $7-800 and the kit would be around $4-500, but that is a guess.

Seeing as how the pic shows an unpainted model, it is either a kit or a prototype.

My idea is somebody in China has gotten their hand on the 1/6 21C prototype molds of the RC PZ 111, that was supposed to have been destroyed years ago, and is working with it now. The PZ 11 and 111 have the same body, only the PZ 11 has the smaller guns.

DML has disappointed 1/6 fans before, saying something will be released but then the item just evaporates. We can hope with this PZ 11 and all the possible custom variations of tanks and SP guns using the same chassis that this tank will be realized........ I hope, I hope, I hope.

TTT

[Panther F]

Now THIS is interesting! Large enough to go with the M5's but not as big as a Tiger.


- Jeff

[Panzer_M]

Rumor has that the completed show special will run around $7-800 and the kit would be around $4-500, but that is a guess.

Seeing as how the pic shows an unpainted model, it is either a kit or a prototype.

My idea is somebody in China has gotten their hand on the 1/6 21C prototype molds of the RC PZ 111, that was supposed to have been destroyed years ago, and is working with it now. The PZ 11 and 111 have the same body, only the PZ 11 has the smaller guns.

DML has disappointed 1/6 fans before, saying something will be released but then the item just evaporates. We can hope with this PZ 11 and all the possible custom variations of tanks and SP guns using the same chassis that this tank will be realized........ I hope, I hope, I hope.

TTT

Dude, that is bunk and you should know it. The Pz II and Pz III do not share the same chassis(or even suspension type. The II is a leaf spring and the III is a torison bar setup), not to meantion the size is different.


Crew: 3 men
Weight: 9500kg
Lenght: 4.81m
Width: 2.28m
Height: 2.02m


Crew: 5 men
Weight: 21800kg
Lenght: 5.56m (w/o the gun)
Width: 2.95m
Height: 2.50m

[Panzer_M]

Rumor has that the completed show special will run around $7-800 and the kit would be around $4-500, but that is a guess.

Seeing as how the pic shows an unpainted model, it is either a kit or a prototype.

My idea is somebody in China has gotten their hand on the 1/6 21C prototype molds of the RC PZ 111, that was supposed to have been destroyed years ago, and is working with it now. The PZ 11 and 111 have the same body, only the PZ 11 has the smaller guns.

DML has disappointed 1/6 fans before, saying something will be released but then the item just evaporates. We can hope with this PZ 11 and all the possible custom variations of tanks and SP guns using the same chassis that this tank will be realized........ I hope, I hope, I hope.

TTT

well the VWs/NSU are 100ish, so 300-400 isn't bad. the complex metal Panzer IV is 700-800 unbuilt at a hobbyshop over near Tampa(1hr drive or so for me)...and I've been eyeing that kit for awhile but the pile of resin is the turn off on that one...but the Panzer II shows promise.

So would the built verision be a CyberHobby Release and the kit going for sale under the Dragon Banner?

[usmcchet9296]

Cyberhobby is Dragons online dealer and no this isnt a old 21C kit. The 21C Panzer was the III versin not the II. Please dont guess at the price as my contacts dont have an idea of the price and well since 1/6th was my bag for a long time my contacts are legit contacts.

[Threetoughtrucks]

Ignoring the fact that a member tells me my comment is "BS" and "You should know it".

Doing a little research anybody can find that the German Army experimented with many similar types of tanks to find the right size and running gear combination for their projected needs. They projected two types of tanks, light and medium. Light tanks would accompany infantry and fight against enemy infantry tanks. Medium tanks were designed to engage heavy fixed fortifications.

Panzer I and Panzer II's fit the bill for fighting enemy infantry and tanks at the beginning and the German Army quickly found them useless against bigger enemy tanks. Panzer III's used heavier guns and were replaced with Panzer IV's and the bigger tanks. The guns were primarily 20mm and later 37mm guns with experiments of 50mm guns.

The Panzer II depicted by this DML model with five wheels was used to the end of WW2 as a base for many weapons systems (Self Propelled Guns, AT Guns and AAA configurations).

When the Panzer III was developed, a group of 10 Panzer III's were used with the five wheels and coil spring suspensions, just like the Panzer II's.. These were used at the start of the war with the 1st Panzer Division and saw combat. Then Panzer III's with six wheels with leaf springs were found more successful in handling the weight of the heavier guns and armor than the Panzer II's.

To a modeler, using the Panzer II body with a heavier gun turret for the bigger guns to represent a Panzer III would be acceptable to all but the "bolt counter" modeler we all know exist...

As to my comment on the 21C Panzer, it was a joke about the missing molds. My comments on price were repeated from SAG and THE SIXTH DIVISION forums. At this point nobody know the price, not your "experts" or mine.

TTT

[usmcchet9296]

TTT the five wheel panzer is a german design and was used later in the war as the Wespe (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/wespe.htm) and the 4 wheel version was a Czech version that had a common chassis with the Marader and Bison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_38(t)

and yes I do research TTT and no my "experts" dont know the price either

[Panzer_M]

Ignoring the fact that a member tells me my comment is "BS" and "You should know it".

Doing a little research anybody can find that the German Army experimented with many similar types of tanks to find the right size and running gear combination for their projected needs. They projected two types of tanks, light and medium. Light tanks would accompany infantry and fight against enemy infantry tanks. Medium tanks were designed to engage heavy fixed fortifications.

Panzer I and Panzer II's fit the bill for fighting enemy infantry and tanks at the beginning and the German Army quickly found them useless against bigger enemy tanks. Panzer III's used heavier guns and were replaced with Panzer IV's and the bigger tanks. The guns were primarily 20mm and later 37mm guns with experiments of 50mm guns.

The Panzer II depicted by this DML model with five wheels was used to the end of WW2 as a base for many weapons systems (Self Propelled Guns, AT Guns and AAA configurations).

When the Panzer III was developed, a group of 10 Panzer III's were used with the five wheels and coil spring suspensions, just like the Panzer II's.. These were used at the start of the war with the 1st Panzer Division and saw combat. Then Panzer III's with six wheels with leaf springs were found more successful in handling the weight of the heavier guns and armor than the Panzer II's.

To a modeler, using the Panzer II body with a heavier gun turret for the bigger guns to represent a Panzer III would be acceptable to all but the "bolt counter" modeler we all know exist...

As to my comment on the 21C Panzer, it was a joke about the missing molds. My comments on price were repeated from SAG and THE SIXTH DIVISION forums. At this point nobody know the price, not your "experts" or mine.

TTT

I didn't mean any real harm in the BS comment but converting a Mk.II to III is like converting a Pz IV into a Panther/Tiger.

You would need a new upper hull, the Pz II hull is angled on the side, vs the Pz III which is a straight plate, the rear deck of the Pz II is angled downward to the back more so then the Pz III. Then you have the issue a Pz III turret would be alot wider(3 man turret vs a 1 1/2 man turret) than the Pz II upper hull. Then you have the suspension, exhaust, fact your going from a single crew man in the front hull to two(driver vs Driver and radio/bow gunner).

Just for shiets and giggles a bigger gun could be done...but it wouldn't be close to a panzer III E-N in any regards. Just too different IMO.
I went to check the parts catalog at Panzerwerk to see what they had for Panzer III bits, and I couldn't come up with much which would swap over for a upgunned Pz II, maybe the Pz II Luchs Mantlet..drilled for a 5cmL60 gun from it's 2cm KwK...but in all the parts nothing really caught me as a sure fire thing..a Panzerjager would be easier and look 100 time better IMO.

Now the Hull could be used w. a PaK 40 and cardstock for a Marder II(Late) with some cutting and kitbashing and most major parts for the change are already made in 1/6 in one form or another..but you basicly would keep everything from the fenders down intact, changing the fighting compartment for the Marder...the nose would also have to come off, from the early curved plate to straight.


A Wespe could also be done, but the 10.5cm le FH 16 would have to scratchbuilt as well as the upper hull...but between the Marder II and Wespe, I would put the Marder as the easier of the two to source parts for in 1/6scale..gun, shells, plate, racks, radio, MG, and the upper front hull retained the shape of the Panzer II although the front plate with the driver's visor is straight across and loses it's notch on the right hand side. The Wespe required a whole new hull front the nose to tail of the chassis which was more akin to the 38(t) late upper hulls seen on the Grille M and FlaKpanzer 38(t)

[Panzer_M]

TTT the Pz III D had angled leaf springs which would be the closest to the Pz II C..although I haven't found a clear picture of how the springs were angled

Again I do apologize for the comment..I've just been in a sour mood all night since I got home and found along with the price of everything going up, my damn insulin went from 42 a vial to 55, in less than 30 days between purchases of the same..and I couldn't get a answer on why....that was just the cherry on top of the Piss-Pie I've been delegated to deal with. I know I shouldn't carry the bitterness here..just gets to you sometimes you know.

On top of that, I won't know if my Bucs stomp PH's Saints, cause the greedy owners decided to block out the televised coverage due to lack of sales for seats...which is the 3rd time this year they have done it, so my weekend is shot.

Ok, I'm done..I need to build something this weekend.

[Threetoughtrucks]

Since in real life during WW2 the PII chassis WAS used for the chassis for various SP guns like the Wespe after the PII became obsolete, no matter what changes the body went through, it was in fact used. You can't say a craftsman like our Pickel couldn't make a passable body for a PIII, and put that body on the DML PII chassis. That is all I'm saying. Besides, you can't say, 1/6 guys are not already drawing up initial plans for a Wespe body for that DML PII kit considering the popularity of both the PII and the Wespe. We all know there are pics around of the dozens of different bodies and chassis combination's that the Germans tried. Some worked and were adopted, alot didn't and became obsolete but still were used until they were destroyed in action or just fell apart. Those crafty Germans used everything they got their hands on, you know that, even captured armor turned in SP guns.

Back to our real life. Panzer, sorry for your price increase problems for your insulin. If you complain about that price, you should feel better thinking about me. I take two kinds of insulin, quick acting and long acting every day, every meal, and my plan charges for each are about $80 for a three month supply..... until I fall in the dreaded "Donut Hole", which is about June, each year, when my insulin cost to me jumps to $400 and $500 a pop for a three month supply. Just blam, there goes $1800 in the crapper, just for the insulin. Besides two other meds I take that are also in the $350 to $500 each a pop range while in the "Donut Hole". After all, I do have a choice...... either I pay it or I don't and die. That's my choice. I love choices. Feel better now?

My reaction to the BS crack was like dega view all over again of a 1/6 forum years ago that had a nasty habit of having flame wars that got ugly. I wasn't involved in the flame wars but stopped visiting that site for two years because of it and found this site where we don't use flame wars even in differences of opinions and didn't want to start that here.

TTT

[usmcchet9296]

I dont flame anymore TTT
I do sometimes agree to disagree
the are toys afterall and why destroy and relationship over a toy
fighting on the internet is like winning the special olympics
even if you win your still retarded

and yes thats a cold statement but stop being so PC gents
its so wrong its funny

[usmcchet9296]

TTT U I totally forgot about that version of the marader and thats definately an option
personlly I think this was a wise decision for DML to make
the tank is small enough to be fesable to make for money people can afford and can be re-used to make different variants like the Marader and Wespe

[Threetoughtrucks]

If DML releases the PII and the kit is cheap enough, my feeling is that it will bring new life into 1/6 when some vehicles have cost more than 1/1 cars I have owned.

On another site one of the members says they have spoken to a rep from DML on the PII and the rep says we will know more in a few weeks about price and availability.

We can hope for the best.

TTT

[Panzer_M]

Since in real life during WW2 the PII chassis WAS used for the chassis for various SP guns like the Wespe after the PII became obsolete, no matter what changes the body went through, it was in fact used. You can't say a craftsman like our Pickel couldn't make a passable body for a PIII, and put that body on the DML PII chassis. That is all I'm saying. Besides, you can't say, 1/6 guys are not already drawing up initial plans for a Wespe body for that DML PII kit considering the popularity of both the PII and the Wespe. We all know there are pics around of the dozens of different bodies and chassis combination's that the Germans tried. Some worked and were adopted, alot didn't and became obsolete but still were used until they were destroyed in action or just fell apart. Those crafty Germans used everything they got their hands on, you know that, even captured armor turned in SP guns.

Back to our real life. Panzer, sorry for your price increase problems for your insulin. If you complain about that price, you should feel better thinking about me. I take two kinds of insulin, quick acting and long acting every day, every meal, and my plan charges for each are about $80 for a three month supply..... until I fall in the dreaded "Donut Hole", which is about June, each year, when my insulin cost to me jumps to $400 and $500 a pop for a three month supply. Just blam, there goes $1800 in the crapper, just for the insulin. Besides two other meds I take that are also in the $350 to $500 each a pop range while in the "Donut Hole". After all, I do have a choice...... either I pay it or I don't and die. That's my choice. I love choices. Feel better now?

My reaction to the BS crack was like dega view all over again of a 1/6 forum years ago that had a nasty habit of having flame wars that got ugly. I wasn't involved in the flame wars but stopped visiting that site for two years because of it and found this site where we don't use flame wars even in differences of opinions and didn't want to start that here.

TTT

I'm not far behind, I'm on R and 70/30(R is sliding and 70/30 every 12), plus a some few other scripts now, since the "Honeymoon" period ended it seems for me...after 5 years since I went in to ICU with a Blood Glucose close to 900...just been bitter about the recent turn of events..esp with the new complications that I can't seem to get a real solution for. I am just pissed off with the whole US healthcare system at this point..since all the care it seems is the profit of managing the problem and not curing it..and it would be a simple fix in the terms of engineering..stem cells into Islet cells and Type 1 would be eliminated. I remember back in 2005, I heard all the hoopal bs about pig cell transplants, human donor transplants being done(with 1 case here in Brevard Co) and that in a few years the curse would be gone with the progress...but that kinda died on the vine, like the insulin laced lettuce that was going through trials a few years back...like I said as the problems have grown from a incovienence to a handicap...I've gotten more negative..esp away from the 'net and in real life.

Again, TTT I am sorry. Just being young and watching your life get more and more limited before 30..when you feel more like 70 doesn't do one's outlook much good.

[Threetoughtrucks]

This is far OT, but, for Panzer:

I have been around people far worse than me including a buddy who was Type 1 since he was 12 and life on dialysis at age 32. His eyes went early and he could see shapes but was legally blind. Funny thing he owned a M3A1 White Halftrack and a WC-62 (six wheel Dodge) but couldn't drive anything with his bad eyes. He had a crew of guys who grew up with him and these guys maintained the halftrack and drove him, in parades and to shows with the halftrack. A great sense of humor and a hoarder of military guns and uniforms. When I met him he had among all sorts of military guns, including 10 M-1 Garand Tankers. Original M-1 Tankers, but had never fired any of his guns.

A funny and true story was one night he was in his parents house alone and he heard a noise in the kitchen. He goes in and his big cat was messing stuff up. He sees shapes. He goes about his business until his parents come home about the same time as he finds his big cat asleep on the couch. His Dad goes in the kitchen and finds a raccoon tearing up the cabinets with food all over. No more leaving my buddy alone.

He died when dialysis couldn't help him any more, at age 35. Too bad.

Nice guy, his guns all went to auction and his vehicles are in eastern PA. He and I started the first and only MV club in NYC. We had good times together.

I often think about my buddy, whenever I start to complain about my insulin's and needles and test sticks. I have nothing to complain about.

TTT

[Threetoughtrucks]

The price for the completed DML Pz II is $499.99 as a show special.

http://www.dxpo.com/dx/10/exclusives/71450.asp

Best guess for a kit would be around $200.

I'll be in line for a kit, that's fur sure, that's fur dang sure.

TTT

[plasticboy]

The price for the completed DML Pz II is $499.99 as a show special.

http://www.dxpo.com/dx/10/exclusives/71450.asp

Best guess for a kit would be around $200.

I'll be in line for a kit, that's fur sure, that's fur dang sure.

TTT

I'll wait for the kit too.

[Threetoughtrucks]

Today's news is that the kit price is about right at around $200, and $500 for a built model. More details as to when they will be available should be out tomorrow.

Complaints already about the detail (or lack of) on the turret. They still want it for the chassis to make other versions or customs, despite the perceived problems with the turret.

I'm still in line. Hell, we lived for years with accuracy complaints about 21C for years and still bought them by the truckload despite Wallyworld and TRU mark downs.

TTT