Holy Grail of 1/18

Your Main Forum For Discussing 1:18 Scale Military Figures and Vehicles.
VMF115
Officer - Brigadier General
Officer - Brigadier General
Posts: 7112
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:30 pm
Location: Clear Lake, South Dakota

Re: How much?

Post by VMF115 » Mon May 17, 2010 9:21 pm

[email protected] wrote:Looks like the clear winners are the A-10 Warthog, the F-4 Phantom II, and the P-39 Aracobra.

What would you consider a fair price for a kit of these? How about a full finished and painted version?
I like those!!

for the price...
What ever you can get for them and have enough to make a profit. and what most folks on here can afford...Good luck!!! :lol:
Last edited by VMF115 on Mon May 17, 2010 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Colonel "Madman" Maddox: Let me hear your guns!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: My what?
Colonel "Madman" Maddox: Your guns! Ack, ack, ack, ack, ack!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: [fires his airplane's guns] AHHHH!

iballdriver
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:33 pm

Re: How much?

Post by iballdriver » Mon May 17, 2010 9:23 pm

[email protected] wrote:Looks like the clear winners are the A-10 Warthog, the F-4 Phantom II, and the P-39 Aracobra.

What would you consider a fair price for a kit of these? How about a full finished and painted version?
b-17 got quite a few mentions, as did the b25 and b26.....bombers never get the love and glory...... :wink:
bc
coleslaw is a condiment.
Good Trader: Delta Team
vulgarvulture

MCalamari
Officer - 2nd Lieutenant
Officer - 2nd Lieutenant
Posts: 389
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:52 pm
Location: Davis, California, USA

Re: How much?

Post by MCalamari » Mon May 17, 2010 9:36 pm

iballdriver wrote:
[email protected] wrote:Looks like the clear winners are the A-10 Warthog, the F-4 Phantom II, and the P-39 Aracobra.

What would you consider a fair price for a kit of these? How about a full finished and painted version?
b-17 got quite a few mentions, as did the b25 and b26.....bombers never get the love and glory...... :wink:
bc

I agree. The B-17 showed well, let's give it some respect! I really want to see a field of B-17s ... just imagine the fun with nose art and tail markings!

Also, I'm thinking a fair price for a "Holy Grail" doesn't enter the equation ... that is part of being a "Grail".

fightin
Officer - 2nd Lieutenant
Officer - 2nd Lieutenant
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:05 am
Location: near Vienna, Austria

Re: How much?

Post by fightin » Mon May 17, 2010 11:22 pm

[email protected] wrote:Looks like the clear winners are the A-10 Warthog, the F-4 Phantom II, and the P-39 Aracobra.

What would you consider a fair price for a kit of these? How about a full finished and painted version?
If you ask me, the P-39 would be affordable for a wider range of people... imagine the prize of the F-4 or the A-10 :shock:
We still need more new 1/18 aircraft!

JoeS
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:30 am
Location: United Kingdom

Post by JoeS » Tue May 18, 2010 2:01 am

F-4C/D & J Phantoms
Mig-21
B-25
B-26

P-61

gburch
Officer - Captain
Officer - Captain
Posts: 678
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:45 am
Location: Houston, Texas
Contact:

Re: How much?

Post by gburch » Tue May 18, 2010 4:17 am

[email protected] wrote:Looks like the clear winners are the A-10 Warthog, the F-4 Phantom II, and the P-39 Aracobra.

What would you consider a fair price for a kit of these? How about a full finished and painted version?
Great question. An innovative "garage" manufacturer might well be able to experiment with different forms of release for projects as potentially popular as these three planes. Just for instance:

-- A completely unpainted kit of all parts and decals unassembled.

-- An unassembled kit that is partially painted (i.e. the biggest parts -- wings, fuselage halves -- painted) but with decals unapplied.

-- Partially assembled, but unpainted

-- Partially assembled, partially painted

-- Completely assembled and painted.

Approaching these projects like this would also make it easier to work in different versions of the planes. The F-4 and the P-39 especially went through lots of minor variations, so designing the molds so that these different versions could be implemented at the kit or partial kit level might be a good idea.

Given the enthusiast market and only online sales, saving on packaging might make pricing more tolerable.

Release in different modes like this might open up a market for "finishers" such as we have seen sort-of beginning with the F-14 repaint services offered here.

You might also experiment with leaving out some details -- such as cockpit detailing -- that could become a niche for other garage manufacturers.

scbvideoboy
Officer - Captain
Officer - Captain
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:49 pm
Location: Cocoa Beach

Post by scbvideoboy » Tue May 18, 2010 8:13 am

Any P-39 needs to have a opening door, at least one side removeable engine access to view engine and a opening gun compartment showing the guns. Those are the unique features.

I don't buy $200 diecast cars with no opening doors/hoods/trunks.

As for price, how many Ki-61 Tonys were sold at $750 vs Me163s sold at $330?

Granted these aren't mass produced and each one is hand built and assembled/painted, but 750 is a house payment.

DH

Airacobra
Officer - 1st Lieutenant
Officer - 1st Lieutenant
Posts: 594
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:18 pm
Location: MN

Post by Airacobra » Tue May 18, 2010 11:52 am

Hard to say regarding the price. The P-39 is a very small warbird, almost exactly the same size as the KI-61. I would like to see a kit under $200, I may be able to afford that. I will stay out of the fully built discussion because I can tell you right now it would be out of my league financially. I don't even want to think about the price of an A-10 or F-4. :shock:
"What a magnificent aeroplane! They could have all their Spitfires and Mustangs!"
Roland "Bee" Beamont, Tempest Wing Commander

Image

fightin
Officer - 2nd Lieutenant
Officer - 2nd Lieutenant
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:05 am
Location: near Vienna, Austria

Post by fightin » Tue May 18, 2010 12:18 pm

Thinking about my kit assembly and airbrush skills, I still hope for pre-painted and pre-assembled aircraft. Fingers crossed! :?
We still need more new 1/18 aircraft!

parrish333
Officer - 2nd Lieutenant
Officer - 2nd Lieutenant
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:13 am
Location: NE Chicagoland, Illinois

Numbers, numbers, numbers

Post by parrish333 » Tue May 18, 2010 1:30 pm

It's almost always about the numbers being built...unless somebody is truly doing each one from scratch (akin to hand-carving from a solid block of wood).

That's why WM planes were $40 and Skyworks or Pickel creations are in the hundreds. Pickel has entertained doing larger runs on certain items to bring the price down somewhat, but I don't think he ever got near 100 or more of one item (let alone the 1000s that are needed to REALLY bring the price down).

So as long as the number of units produced is <100 (<1000?), full vehicles are going to continue to be outside the price range of the majority of us. I mean Skyworks has done some pretty dang popular planes (Spitfire, Hurricane, ME-163), and Pickel has picked quite a few should-be-popular choices as well (I mean who doesn't want mini-guns for their copters or cannons on their Stuka or an M18 or armoured car?) and they are still charging a hefty (though I'm sure justifiable) price. Which to me says they're not getting the numbers needed to lower the price. I guess I'm assuming they're still using some kind of repeatable process on their products. Maybe I'm misunderstanding and the current products truly are each one-of-a-kind.

So even if 50 of us say "oh yeah - build a P-39!!!" is that really going to get the cost below $100 or even $200? Probably not.

normandy
Officer - Brigadier General
Officer - Brigadier General
Posts: 5763
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:30 pm
Location: L.I., N.Y.

Post by normandy » Tue May 18, 2010 2:00 pm

I know I said an Me-110, But I'd love to see a Horten Flying Wing, that would be cool!

iballdriver
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:33 pm

Post by iballdriver » Tue May 18, 2010 3:07 pm

while we are all shooting for the moon, how about the A-6.......
coleslaw is a condiment.
Good Trader: Delta Team
vulgarvulture

King O' Fools
Officer - Captain
Officer - Captain
Posts: 817
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: How much?

Post by King O' Fools » Tue May 18, 2010 3:31 pm

MCalamari wrote:
iballdriver wrote: b-17 got quite a few mentions, as did the b25 and b26.....bombers never get the love and glory...... :wink:
bc

I agree. The B-17 showed well, let's give it some respect! I really want to see a field of B-17s ... just imagine the fun with nose art and tail markings!

Also, I'm thinking a fair price for a "Holy Grail" doesn't enter the equation ... that is part of being a "Grail".
That's because the intent of this survey is to measure interest in commercially viable 1/18 scale models that Skyworks can actually produce. You know this was never a question about the 'holy grail' in 1/18 scale. A 'holy grail' is unattainable, by definition. Like the B-17. And Skyworks ain't interested in things that don't generate profit. Period.

iballdriver
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:33 pm

Re: How much?

Post by iballdriver » Tue May 18, 2010 4:30 pm

King O' Fools wrote:
MCalamari wrote:[quote="iballdriver A 'holy grail' is unattainable, by definition. Like the B-17. And Skyworks ain't interested in things that don't generate profit. Period.
dude, quit harshing on my happy place. do you also stomp on baby kittens? :(
bc
coleslaw is a condiment.
Good Trader: Delta Team
vulgarvulture

SkyWorksToys
Sergeant
Sergeant
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:12 pm

Post by SkyWorksToys » Tue May 18, 2010 4:31 pm

Tom did that on hes own there was no intention behind question what would be considered holy grail of 1/18,however question evolved from discussion we had amongst people who work at SkyWorks.We did not try to research what you guys like us to produce because right now I think we have 3 airplanes you guys chose for 3 top spots in final stage of development ,and I hope we will make some money on it, to be business in US you have to make money ,when any of you goes to work in a morning you expect to get paid for it for a some strange reason you guys dont think we deserve to be paid for our work ,im sure that will stir up some comments I just have that effect on you

gburch
Officer - Captain
Officer - Captain
Posts: 678
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:45 am
Location: Houston, Texas
Contact:

Post by gburch » Tue May 18, 2010 4:44 pm

SkyWorksToys wrote:Tom did that on hes own there was no intention behind question what would be considered holy grail of 1/18,however question evolved from discussion we had amongst people who work at SkyWorks.We did not try to research what you guys like us to produce because right now I think we have 3 airplanes you guys chose for 3 top spots in final stage of development ,and I hope we will make some money on it, to be business in US you have to make money ,when any of you goes to work in a morning you expect to get paid for it for a some strange reason you guys dont think we deserve to be paid for our work ,im sure that will stir up some comments I just have that effect on you
Of course we (I, at least) want you to make a profit!!!

I do wish there was some way to get around the damnable cost of producing small runs, though. I can't help but think that "desktop manufacturing" might come to the rescue some day ...

[email protected]
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:09 pm
Contact:

Soap Box!

Post by [email protected] » Tue May 18, 2010 8:27 pm

Alright, it is time to mount the soap box!

King O Fools (was right, part of the reason I did the survey was to see what the interest was out there so we at SkyWorks could tailor our products to what you, the customer, wants. After reading all the suggestions, don't expect us to product a $600 T-6 Texan model in the near future, sorry for those Texan people! Every company worth its salt does market research to make sure they are selling what the people want, at a price they are willing to pay.

As for the Holy Grail name, that is just a phrase that is used commonly to show what the "top dog" is in something. In our case it is 1/18 scale models. In this case it IS attainable, and that is what we shoot for at SkyWorks, what everyone wants!

If any of you have done any research on what it takes to produce these models you will know that it costs thousands to get to the point where someone can sell a kit on the market. For example, the mold to make the body of our Tony costs well over $1000, and that is just one part! This business is expensive! One of the new ways to produce a prototype for a subject is using a CNC machine, and between the machine, tools for the machine, software, and hardware you are looking at many thousands of dollars.

You also have to remember that this is a business, and to that end, we have to make a profit to stay in business. SkyWorks has a workforce that has to be paid (remember that Jack!), as well as a facility where we make the models. All of the normal things a business has to pay for has to be taken into consideration when we price a model. If we did not make a profit, we would not be in business very long.

Enough of the soap-box!! I want to thank all of you for your input. The final count shows that the A-10 Warthog, F-4 Phantom, P-39 Aracobra, and the B-17 Flying Fortress were the top choices.

Keep the posts coming if you think of something else on your list. As Jack posted a few posts above this, SkyWorks has several of the top choices in the works, and trust me, nobody will be disappointed when we announce them!!!

MCalamari
Officer - 2nd Lieutenant
Officer - 2nd Lieutenant
Posts: 389
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:52 pm
Location: Davis, California, USA

Re: How much?

Post by MCalamari » Tue May 18, 2010 8:41 pm

King O' Fools wrote: That's because the intent of this survey is to measure interest in commercially viable 1/18 scale models that Skyworks can actually produce. You know this was never a question about the 'holy grail' in 1/18 scale. A 'holy grail' is unattainable, by definition. Like the B-17. And Skyworks ain't interested in things that don't generate profit. Period.
I *guessed* at the intent, but it still seems like something that should be "unattainable" to all save the pure of heart. ;)

We did get a BMF ... so who knows, maybe one day a 1:18 scale B-17 will be a reality.

If you want me to consider price / a larger potential audience and limit it to a bird, would a B-25 be reasonable sized? (Me, I'd prefer a B-24 after the B-17, but again, the same problem.)

Airacobra
Officer - 1st Lieutenant
Officer - 1st Lieutenant
Posts: 594
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:18 pm
Location: MN

Post by Airacobra » Tue May 18, 2010 8:51 pm

Come on P-39!!!!!!!! I would definately save up for or sell a few things to get a hold of a 1/18 P-39. Personally, I would prefer a kit. That way, I can get the paint scheme I want.
"What a magnificent aeroplane! They could have all their Spitfires and Mustangs!"
Roland "Bee" Beamont, Tempest Wing Commander

Image

User avatar
toyktdlgh
Officer - Brigadier General
Officer - Brigadier General
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:19 am
Location: USA

Post by toyktdlgh » Tue May 18, 2010 8:51 pm

B-17 is a great choice. I would pay an oodle for one.

Airacobra
Officer - 1st Lieutenant
Officer - 1st Lieutenant
Posts: 594
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:18 pm
Location: MN

Post by Airacobra » Tue May 18, 2010 8:57 pm

toyktdlgh wrote:B-17 is a great choice. I would pay an oodle for one.
You would have no choice but to pay an oodle for one. :)

A B-17 is definitely one I would love to have as well, but I think I will buy one of the r/c kits and go from there when I'm ready.
"What a magnificent aeroplane! They could have all their Spitfires and Mustangs!"
Roland "Bee" Beamont, Tempest Wing Commander

Image

DocTodd
Officer - Lt. Colonel
Officer - Lt. Colonel
Posts: 1141
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:37 pm
Location: Central Texas
Contact:

Post by DocTodd » Tue May 18, 2010 9:40 pm

A-10, and A-7 would be my first two choices, and of course a B-17 would be great.
Todd
Todd

MCalamari
Officer - 2nd Lieutenant
Officer - 2nd Lieutenant
Posts: 389
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:52 pm
Location: Davis, California, USA

Post by MCalamari » Tue May 18, 2010 10:16 pm

In 1:18 scale, what would the actual wingspan of a B-17 be?

(Right, I'm too lazy to do the math ... heck, somebody should create a iPhone app to create scale measurements.)

scbvideoboy
Officer - Captain
Officer - Captain
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:49 pm
Location: Cocoa Beach

Post by scbvideoboy » Tue May 18, 2010 10:26 pm

The space craft from "Forbidden Planet"! I have a 1/72 model unbuilt, super cool item.

I still want a Tony, but will have to see about available dollars.

DH

JohnLumley
Officer - 2nd Lieutenant
Officer - 2nd Lieutenant
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:06 am
Location: Boynton Beach, Florida
Contact:

Post by JohnLumley » Wed May 19, 2010 12:27 pm

Holy Grail

B-17 Flying fortress. For display on ceiling.

I am saving up for someone to make one for me. I will have the funds by the end of the year.
Not sure what would be a fair price but I am thinking around $2500.00 or more.

There is a 1:18 E.A.M. kit that is available to use as a starting point.

I need lots of detail on the outside.
Retractable gear.
No detail required on the inside.
No pilots or crew.
No ground equipment.


Would make a nice Christmas present for 2010.

Image[/list]
Last edited by JohnLumley on Wed May 19, 2010 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
One hundred and fifty three - 1:18 scale aircraft on the ceiling looks :shock: damn good!

Post Reply