Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:55 am
[quote="
The first M4A1 had the rollers you talked about ( just like on the M-3 Grant ) and tiny mantlet. They also had the slick pads on the tracks .
I think they progressed them as they built them.
The M4A1 hull is correct for the FOV . The grille in back is not an issue because with my replacement the FOV upper hull is not even used.This would be the late M4A1 version. Additional armor should be on the turret and aditional armor should be on the hull sides. Also the extra hatch on the top of the FOV should be deleated.
During the war they used eveything that was moving. Different tracks turrets and what not. If it fit use it.
The next phase of the M4A1 would be the 76 gun and it would have canted hull hatches. I am pretty sure I will not do that version. It all depends how this one sells.[/quote]
1) Return roller brackets - I wasn't refering to the "M3 type" return rollers as seen on the earliest M4, M4A1, M4A2s. There are several detail versions of the "trailing arm" return roller bracket. 21C was lazy and just copied the Tamiya 1/35th M4 model, feature for feature. Tamiya got lazy and put the late suspension bogies from their M4A3 into the M4 kit. Look at the return roller "arms" On the 21C the tops of the brackets have a mild upward curve, on the FOV the top is straight inline with the top of the bogie. This was a real production change, but the "raised arm" brackets belong only on later production types.
2) Yes, the applique armor (the added panels) were a factory and depot standard addition to the M4A1, but they didn't show up in combat until about 1944, so you are right in leaving them off your model. M4A1s in the Pacific, in North Africa and early in Italy didn't have the added armor. The ones from DDay on should have the full applique, but this is easily added from sheet plastic.
3) Your hull on the FoV chassis, look at the rear plate and the engine access door. The FoV has the single, small door of the M4A3, the 21C has the correct larger double door for the radial engines (M4 and M4A1).
4) mixed and matched - don't get carried away with the BS that is out there. US Army repair crews did some mix ' match, but the basically returned the tanks to spec or scrapped them for parts, they didn't invent new configurations in the field.
5) The M4A1 76mm would be interesting in 1:18 but it shares few parts with the 21C model. The 76s had the new upper hull, new transmission cover, the 76mm turret and a bunch of detail differences. That late hull was only used for a very few 75mm tanks and 99% of those went to become the US version of the Duplex Drive tank. For the M4A1 76mm about all you could really re-use from the 21C tank would be the lower hull pan, the lower rear plate, the figure, the MG and some tools.
For future ideas, you could look at the late hull M4 that was produced at the Detroit Tank Arsenal in 1943, these are the so-called "Hybrid" or "Composite hull" tanks that had a cast front on the upper hull with a welded rear. Early production had the "straight" driver's hatches, like your M4A1, but the most common used the "canted" larger hatches. These tanks are interesting because they look different and they saw interesting use. Some of the "composite" hull tanks went to the US Army in Europe (seen in the 6th Armored Div. in Normandy), a bunch went to the British/Canadian forces in Europe. For the British they served as 75mm gun tanks and many were upgraded to "Firelies" with the British 17-pounder AT gun. The "composite" M4s also went to the Pacific and show up in later campaigns such as the Phillipines and Okinawa both as gun tanks and with some converted to flamethrower tanks.
Another idea would be to look at using the Blue Box M4A3 hull to produce the late M4A3 "wet stowage" hulls. These do belong on the FoV chassis and were used with the 75mm guns, the 76mm guns in the later turret and the 105mm howitzers. All three versions were common in the Battle of the Bulge and the drive into Germany.
Gary the Shermanoholic
The first M4A1 had the rollers you talked about ( just like on the M-3 Grant ) and tiny mantlet. They also had the slick pads on the tracks .
I think they progressed them as they built them.
The M4A1 hull is correct for the FOV . The grille in back is not an issue because with my replacement the FOV upper hull is not even used.This would be the late M4A1 version. Additional armor should be on the turret and aditional armor should be on the hull sides. Also the extra hatch on the top of the FOV should be deleated.
During the war they used eveything that was moving. Different tracks turrets and what not. If it fit use it.
The next phase of the M4A1 would be the 76 gun and it would have canted hull hatches. I am pretty sure I will not do that version. It all depends how this one sells.[/quote]
1) Return roller brackets - I wasn't refering to the "M3 type" return rollers as seen on the earliest M4, M4A1, M4A2s. There are several detail versions of the "trailing arm" return roller bracket. 21C was lazy and just copied the Tamiya 1/35th M4 model, feature for feature. Tamiya got lazy and put the late suspension bogies from their M4A3 into the M4 kit. Look at the return roller "arms" On the 21C the tops of the brackets have a mild upward curve, on the FOV the top is straight inline with the top of the bogie. This was a real production change, but the "raised arm" brackets belong only on later production types.
2) Yes, the applique armor (the added panels) were a factory and depot standard addition to the M4A1, but they didn't show up in combat until about 1944, so you are right in leaving them off your model. M4A1s in the Pacific, in North Africa and early in Italy didn't have the added armor. The ones from DDay on should have the full applique, but this is easily added from sheet plastic.
3) Your hull on the FoV chassis, look at the rear plate and the engine access door. The FoV has the single, small door of the M4A3, the 21C has the correct larger double door for the radial engines (M4 and M4A1).
4) mixed and matched - don't get carried away with the BS that is out there. US Army repair crews did some mix ' match, but the basically returned the tanks to spec or scrapped them for parts, they didn't invent new configurations in the field.
5) The M4A1 76mm would be interesting in 1:18 but it shares few parts with the 21C model. The 76s had the new upper hull, new transmission cover, the 76mm turret and a bunch of detail differences. That late hull was only used for a very few 75mm tanks and 99% of those went to become the US version of the Duplex Drive tank. For the M4A1 76mm about all you could really re-use from the 21C tank would be the lower hull pan, the lower rear plate, the figure, the MG and some tools.
For future ideas, you could look at the late hull M4 that was produced at the Detroit Tank Arsenal in 1943, these are the so-called "Hybrid" or "Composite hull" tanks that had a cast front on the upper hull with a welded rear. Early production had the "straight" driver's hatches, like your M4A1, but the most common used the "canted" larger hatches. These tanks are interesting because they look different and they saw interesting use. Some of the "composite" hull tanks went to the US Army in Europe (seen in the 6th Armored Div. in Normandy), a bunch went to the British/Canadian forces in Europe. For the British they served as 75mm gun tanks and many were upgraded to "Firelies" with the British 17-pounder AT gun. The "composite" M4s also went to the Pacific and show up in later campaigns such as the Phillipines and Okinawa both as gun tanks and with some converted to flamethrower tanks.
Another idea would be to look at using the Blue Box M4A3 hull to produce the late M4A3 "wet stowage" hulls. These do belong on the FoV chassis and were used with the 75mm guns, the 76mm guns in the later turret and the 105mm howitzers. All three versions were common in the Battle of the Bulge and the drive into Germany.
Gary the Shermanoholic