POST ALL JSE F-14 QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION HERE

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:07 pm

aferguson wrote:
oh, and i don't think the car analogy is moot. If there were only Honda accords in the world, you could still shop around, from dealer to dealer, for the best price.....just like many are doing with the JSI F-14....shopping around from dealer to dealer.

It would be a better comparison if Honda is the only remaining car company in the world, and its uncertain whether their company will stay for the long haul, and if their new Accord is the only new car we will see in the forseeable future.

Grilledcheese wrote: WallyWorld and 21st sold tons of XD BECAUSE THE PRICES WERE CHEAP, clearanced or otherwise.

And where is 21st now again? Sure, there are many factors to their downfall, but you can't argue the fact that the only way Walmart could get rid of their XD was to sell them below (or near it) wholesale prices says alot. It was a disaster. It might have been our glory days as collectors, being able to buy these toys at $15-$20 bucks, but it was a crapfest for Walmart and 21st.

That's why Walmart stopped stocking these toys. That's part of the reason why 21st crashed and burned.

Do I feel bad for 21st or WalMart? Not really. But I do accept that fact that wishing for Walmart clearance-type prices, or waiting for a Monkey Depot-type liquidation sale, is in the end, a big factor in ending this 1/18th scale hobby we professed to "love".

Jay wrote:
..But even if you've found a particular make and model of car you like, would you snap up the first one you saw?

If car manufacturer made my dream car, and I know that supply would likely be limited, and I know that it might be the only new car I'll see in a while, and I know that life of the last remaining active car company in the world is uncertain, and I won't have to do any illegal activities in order to afford that car?

You betcha.

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:16 pm

Good points all around, I placed a pre-order with Badcat and I'm going to stick with them since I think of myself as a loyal customer and they have all ways given me top-quality service. But I also feel everyone has a right to buy when and where they please. Lets remember in the end, it may not be how much a dealer makes in the end but rather how many units JSI sells.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:27 pm

GooglyDoogly wrote: If car manufacturer made my dream car, and I know that supply would likely be limited, and I know that it might be the only new car I'll see in a while, and I know that life of the last remaining active car company in the world is uncertain, and I won't have to do any illegal activities in order to afford that car?
You betcha.

Ah, I see your point. Like comparing a Honda Accord to a Mclaren F1 in terms of availabilty (ironic, thinking back to what happened to the Mclaren F1)........I'm now wondering how much E-tailers pay JSI for the Tomcats vs E-tailer markups.

Like Tankduel mentioned to me before. We might hold out for an Asia based distributor. Hoping FZ Toys will pick it up.

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:00 pm

the dream car point is an interesting comparison. For me, the F-14 is not a dream car. It's a nice plane i'd like to have. And it is probably that way for the majority of the people who are buying it.

If it were cancelled tomorrow, i'd go 'aw shucks' and go back to working on my hobby.

For some, it is their dream plane and for them the cost will be of secondary concern, whereas seeing it produced and a big success will be the bigger concerns.

But those buyers are going to be in the minority.

Disappointment is something i've gotten very acustomed to in this hobby. When the AT Mosquito was announced, i pretended to be excited, and i was, but i was also very skeptical....and i think my skepticism is now becoming factual.

coreystinson · Post by **coreystinson** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:26 pm

The jig is up.

Distributor sent out a notification this evening. Vendors undercutting the MSRP by more than 10% will have their orders canceled.

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:30 pm

interesting move.....i hope it pays off for JSI but what about all the people who have preorders in at a promised price that is lower than the 10% off? And what about sellers who offer discounts on shipping?...how is the distributor possibly going to enforce that, without checking the shipping cost to each and every destination on evey single order.

A bit of a slipperly slope they're on, with price fixing.

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:01 pm

i bet some of those guys will be terminated. i didnt realize they had msrp but i had mentioned thats the way the industry is moving

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:05 pm

And what about sellers who offer discounts on shipping?...how is the distributor possibly going to enforce that, without checking the shipping cost to each and every destination on evey single order.

hobby master and others dont regard shipping as an issue. free shipping is allowed. but offering additional items free in conjunction with a hobby master item isnt allowed either

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:10 pm

A bit of a slipperly slope they're on, with price fixing
sorry one more point. companies cant make you sell an item for a specific price from your store. but by law thet can require MAP pricing. minimum advertised pricing. this is what HM ,century wings and others do. so JSI can require this of any advertised pricing which even includes ebay

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:32 pm

so sellers who want to discount the price just have to offer low shipping rates and it's the same thing and the distributor can't do anything about it.

So the MAP pricing enforcement doesn't have much in the way of teeth to it.

Interesting that it's law. Seems counter to free enterprise to me.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:44 pm

...oh...so is that why some consumer products have manufacturer "cash back" deals? So the distributor has to buy and sell within a certain margin, but the manufacturer themselves can offer the "discount"?

Black_Dragon_One · Post by **Black_Dragon_One** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:19 am

Jay wrote:...oh...so is that why some consumer products have manufacturer "cash back" deals? So the distributor has to buy and sell within a certain margin, but the manufacturer themselves can offer the "discount"?

the price point is ok.. but i hope the it comes out....

the paint hi vis was a big big disappointment from what i have heard from people who saw the plain these bird big and if the paint job is hii vis you see the error asap..

at least with low vis you can hide the flaws..

vulgarvulture · Post by **vulgarvulture** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:12 am

BoomingIsland is moving full steam ahead with the discounted price of $185 and is taking pre-orders now (not 9/1 as they originally posted).

vulgarvulture · Post by **vulgarvulture** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:15 am

Trinkets to Treasures is $220, with free shipping:

http://www.trinketstotreasures.com/jsi- ... ogers.html

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:25 am

aferguson wrote:so sellers who want to discount the price just have to offer low shipping rates and it's the same thing and the distributor can't do anything about it.

So the MAP pricing enforcement doesn't have much in the way of teeth to it.

Interesting that it's law. Seems counter to free enterprise to me.

HM has cancelled retail accounts for not keeping to MAP pricing. they only care about the product not the shipping. they dont want thier items devalued by flyby night people who dont really have a brick and mortar store.

coreystinson · Post by **coreystinson** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:00 am

AMERICAN_GRENADIER wrote: HM has cancelled retail accounts for not keeping to MAP pricing. they only care about the product not the shipping. they dont want thier items devalued by flyby night people who dont really have a brick and mortar store.

You hit upon something important. Reliable business models (brick and mortar or long-standing internet stores, for example) can be counted on to carry a manufacturer's product line on the long term and thus establish a supply chain for ongoing business. In other words, it creates a reasonbly predictable business environment where investment in new product can flourish.

On the other hand, fly by night operators are engaging in unsustainable business activities. If they are selling at break even or loss, they have no money to cover expenses for future investments. Also, the fly-by-nighters often end up disappearing with peoples' money, reniging, etc. all of which reflects badly on a manufacturer's brand.

Manufacturer knows all of this, and worse, manufacturer also knows that the fly-by-night operators are damaging the supply chain between themselves and the reliable vendors. I am sure all of this seems counter-intuitive from the perspective of the consumer, but this is why MSRP and other types of fixed sales policies are sometimes put in place.

I don't now who these Booming Island people are, my guess is that they are importing directly from China and circumventing the U.S. distributor's exclusive rights. Once this works its way back to JSI the game will be over. It is very unlikely that Booming Island will have any product to sell you come October.

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:03 pm

spot on Corey i agree totally

snake · Post by **snake** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:59 pm

WWII Attic has bumped the price up to $209,as a result of JSI's pricing policy.

They are however honouring the $199 price for people that have already made pre orders.

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:33 pm

that's probably the way all the retailers will go. Would seriously tick people off if you deny them their pre order price now.

So JSI's decree should not be retroactive but from this point forward.

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:25 am

I finally pulled the trigger on pre-ordering. Despite my excitement about this release, over the last few weeks I found myself seriously questioning the idea of spending over $200 on a single plastic airplane. Definitely spoiled by the history of bargains at Walmart and then the Monkey fest.

Ultimately, I concluded that despite the cost, space limitations for display (feel free to call me a hoarder), and the fact that unlike most of you I'd really prefer a low-viz version over Jolly Rogers, I want to support JSI on this totally new release. Plus I bet you I'll just love it when it's actually in hand. So there you go....

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:35 am

i wasn't crazy about the hi viz either at first, but then i realized i can use my carrier deck section to launch either a low viz f-18 or a high viz f-14, so it's like having a carrier that spans two different eras. At some point i'm also going to get a navy f-4 r/c plane and can set it up on this carrier deck too. So then i'll be spanning from vietnam to modern day, with the 3 planes, much in the way there have been several carriers that served from vietnam up to modern day.

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:49 am

aferguson wrote:that's probably the way all the retailers will go. Would seriously tick people off if you deny them their pre order price now.

So JSI's decree should not be retroactive but from this point forward.

actually they were to cancell all pre orders. the retailers were told up front of the minimum pricing. they are still in violation of the rules. of course a buyer wont turn them in. also these prices are for advertised prices. if you go to a brick and mortar you may find better deals. since JSI cant tell a store what to sell for off the shelf.

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:36 pm

With September here, and October not too far behind, I'm starting to get excited again about the F-14. And since I paid my pre-order up front, the pain is already done.

I wonder if we'll really see them in October. I guess I'd be happy to have mine by Christmas.

vulgarvulture · Post by **vulgarvulture** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:17 pm

I wonder if we'll really see them in October. I guess I'd be happy to have mine by Christmas.

Agreed. October seems questionable, unless they are going to start shipping soon after a paint master is done. Where the heck is the dang paint master?

sledgehammer · Post by **sledgehammer** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:20 pm

Yeah I hear ya. Sometime this year would be nice, thats not too much to ask is it?