POST ALL JSE F-14 QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION HERE

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:10 pm

OK, now to play the gambling game... I just cancelled my initial F-14 preorder with one retailer because I'll save $50 going through Aikens. I also got in contact with the JSI go-to-employee at my local Hobbytown store who confirmed that they are getting in four F-14s for probably the $220 price, just he is not sure when. So the game is this: Aikens will contact me when they get the F-14s and I'll place my order then. However, should my Hobbytown store get them in before hand, that is where I'll go. Not that anyone is listening or cares, just I feel like rambling my thoughts on this matter off

mikeg · Post by **mikeg** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:06 pm

Well, maybe the usual businesses we deal with should just stop taking "preorders"- alot of effort, if our herd is going to cancel en masse when undercut by another, and another, et. I sell a car parts for a certain german manufacturer- occasionally some brilliant numbnut will decide to "corner the local wholesale market" or whatever and get everyone excited, 25% off, 30% off, 10 over , 15 over cost? well, damn, why are we getting laid off??... but in the long run, the promise of a better discount seldem makes a difference if the product is not stocked and has to be ordered or promised deliveries don't happen, or promises in general....the same leaders are usually left standing when the smoke and mirrors clear. Oh yeah, that nasty word called profit is an evil word to our current rulling junta, but its quite important to a business's continued operation (really????), even those here???

I just said this because I don't have 200-230.00 to spend on one of these anyway.

wildcat · Post by **wildcat** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:55 pm

I am thankful that someone is finally making the 1:18 model that I was always looking for a F-14.

I hope they will make more new aircraft.

I think that everyone should be loyal to the e businesses that have stayed in the 1:18 business, keeping hope alive, supporting the manufacturers with pre orders, putting up front money to make new 1:18 models, so that this hobby will keep growing.

Sometimes paying a little more for a product to keep the company's in business that support and build the hobby is more important the purchasing from someone trying to make a quick buck!

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:30 pm

well, i could argue that with etailers discounting the price a bit, then more people will be tempted to buy it and thus JSI will sell more and thus be more movtivated to make new products in the future.

$199 is certainly more attractive to a fence sitter then $229...and if it had been $259 they would have lost me as a customer.

So there is something to be said for a bit of bargain hunting. This is not even close to what happened with WM $5 XD planes. This is healthy competition and that's what free enterprise is all about.

sledgehammer · Post by **sledgehammer** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:39 pm

I too cencelled my preorder from Badcat and went with 2 from Aikens. The lady who took my call said she hoped they could ship them for free without taking a loss, or they would have to go with plan B when the time came. I am assuming plan B is not free shipping. I would have thought they would have allready figured that out before offering free? Oh well, just another case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing.

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:54 pm

im sure they messed up! the shipping will be over 34.00 dollars coast to coast. the box size and wieght puts it into another bracket with ups.
plan B what does that mean screw the buyer? ive heard the wholesale cost is around 150 so you do the math. i cant understand these people that would take a risk to make 10 or 20 bucks? it doesnt seem worth the effort. wwII attic selling that cheap? he has to bring them in from cali? i dont know what these guys are thinking? even using a trucking outfit minimum is 195.00 for a pallet. at most they will put 20 planes on a plalet thats 10 dollars shipping per plane to thier cost. i sure hope it works out or there will be alot of very angry forum members.

wildcat · Post by **wildcat** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:02 am

I did the math, they are not going to make any profit selling at that price and providing free shipping.

We are not buying this stuff from WM anymore!

Everytime you cancel a pre order, in my opinion, you are going to hurt the 1:18 hobby in the long term.

(They might have a higher price so they can make a small profit to keep in business and to keep serving you guys)

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:32 am

as a collector its always nice to get a good deal.
but dealers that lowball items for little profit dont make sense and do end up hurting the industry. thats why hobby master century wings and others have minimum pricing.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:54 am

I guess we'll see what happens. If they do go to plan B, I will still save nearly $20 as I will not have to pay California sales tax.

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:05 am

Is anyone buying a second F-14 for resale in the future?

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:51 am

To be honest, I don't see a big profit on these things in the future. Their cost is already high, unlike the $89.99 of the F-18 years ago.

-Ski

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:08 pm

To be honest, I'm just freaking happy a good-looking F-14 Tomcat is going to come out in 1/18th scale. Plus there's plans for an F-15 and an SU-27 in the future.

Arguing or debating over $30-$50 difference is chump change compared to what we faced a couple of months ago...the possibility of the 1/18th scale dying.

Smalljoes is right. This is a business venture. There's no point for a company to pursue this scale if they're gonna lose money.

You guys can cheap out, but don't whine later if JSI toys suddenly stopped making 1/18th stuff.

I'm not really happy forking over $250+, but my other option to get a big-scale Tomcat is to get those RC planes for about half the price, but also lacking lots of details.

Or...buy those $7,000-dollar models.

mikeg · Post by **mikeg** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:16 pm

"Is anyone buying a 2nd F-14 for resale in the future?" lemme see...

Back in a certain thread labeled - JSI F-14 PREORDER QUESTION - a certain member said he had preordered 6!! from 3 different dealers- ask him to save one for ya!!!!

HALLELUJAH!!

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:27 pm

i find that some larger dealers get upset with the lowballers and dont bring in very many of a new item or take none at all. thats why the folks who sell to make 10 bucks hurt the industry. if big dealers like Badcat or historic find its a hassle to sell items since others are giving them away they wont sell that item. its just not worth the investment. when hobby master impossed map pricing sales went up. the larger retailers took more items since they knew that they wouldnt be hurt buy the guy who make a dollar on ebay

Post by **aferguson** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:42 pm

actually the r/c one is almost the same price now. It's $190. More expensive than usualy because of the complicated wing mechanism that is built in to the model. Took about a year to develop and perfect, apparently.

I'm still probably going to get an r/c one at some point. It's light and so easy to hang and pose like i want. When hanging overhead the lack of detail really doesn't matter and from 5 feet away it looks as good as any other model. Will probably be able to find it for cheaper in time too.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:27 pm

Teamski wrote:To be honest, I don't see a big profit on these things in the future. Their cost is already high, unlike the $89.99 of the F-18 years ago.

-Ski

Yes, there won't be a big profit in the short term for sure. I disagree with the $90 F-18 comment, however. When that F-18 came out in 2003-2004, the most we usually paid for an XD plane was either $40 at Wal Mart and around $50 at most small retailers. $90 for the then-biggest 1:18 plane was a significant jump in price (about 55%).

Now, today the average 1:18 plane costs between $70 and $90 - or more if you take all the now "rare" ones on ebay. If we round costs to $90 for the average 1:18 plane, the F-14 represents about a 60% increase in price for what will be the largest 1:18 plane ever.

Assuming I did my math right, we really are not seeing all that much difference in price increases than what we saw in 2003-2004 when the F-18 came out.

I still feel that the F-14 price is high, but this might just be the crowning piece for my collection and I intend to only get one.

snake · Post by **snake** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:04 am

Aferg,
Already taken care of.Thanks for the link to a Canadian dealer.
Feel sorry for the overseas guys.

In regards to supporting the "Badcats"out there,a bigger dealer should be able to at least offer the same price as a smaller one.
Besides,it is due to forums such as this one,that members can find good deals,through the work of other members.

Don't worry.Badcat,and the other big ones will still sell enough of these to the "general public" to make a profit.

I want to support JSI,and not a particular dealer.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:15 am

snake wrote:
I want to support JSI,and not a particular dealer.

The last time I checked, JSI isn't doing direct sales. And those dealers buying these toys from JSI are the only reason we can get them here.

You guys complain about the shipping prices? Just imagine how much the shipping will be if you have to buy them direct from China.

So support your dealers. The days of Walmarts are over. Don't begrudge our remaining online dealers the profit they deserve.

Airacobra · Post by **Airacobra** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:49 am

GooglyDoogly wrote:
snake wrote:
I want to support JSI,and not a particular dealer.
The last time I checked, JSI isn't doing direct sales. And those dealers buying these toys from JSI are the only way we can get them.

So support your dealers. The days of Walmarts are over. Don't begrudge our remaining online dealers the profit they deserve.

I mean no disrespect but this line of reasoning confuses me a bit. Why would you want to spend an extra $20-$50 for something if you don't have to? I understand the days of Walmart prices are gone, but that's no reason to pay a higher price just because you can. I say buy who you can afford to buy from and leave it at that.

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:34 am

these planes are products just like any other and thus sales, discounting etc are going to happen.

With some of the reasoning i've been reading it's like walking into a car dealership and paying full price without negotiating, just so you can support the dealership.

Ok, you do that....i'm going to shop around if that's ok.

I think this F-14 is still way overpriced. It's just getting better in price.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:04 pm

Airacobra wrote:
GooglyDoogly wrote: The last time I checked, JSI isn't doing direct sales. And those dealers buying these toys from JSI are the only way we can get them.

So support your dealers. The days of Walmarts are over. Don't begrudge our remaining online dealers the profit they deserve.
I mean no disrespect but this line of reasoning confuses me a bit. Why would you want to spend an extra $20-$50 for something if you don't have to? I understand the days of Walmart prices are gone, but that's no reason to pay a higher price just because you can. I say buy who you can afford to buy from and leave it at that.

Well, to be honest, I really do not want to pay a higher price if I don't have to (who would?), but I try to look at it from another point of view.

Working for a small business, I don't see the reason why we, as collectors would not want to pay a little extra for these toys...when the alternatives are...

No more 1/18. Super-inflated prices on ebay. etc etc.

If you only let JSI, dealers, etc to get the BAREST minimum profits out of these products....what would be the point of them to make/carry these products?

If retailers stop buying these from JSI, or at the very least, only buy a small amount since their profit margin are so small, what do you think will happen?

Limited amount of toys available in the market, which will result in high prices on ebay, with collectors driving up auction prices in order to get what they want.

And do you really think JSI will keep on developing new products if they barely make enough profit out of their product?

So against all that...would an extra $30-$50 *really* that much of a big deal?

Or have you guys forgotten that not too long ago, this scale was *dead*, with 21st gone, BBI only making sporadic repaints now and again, and Admiral Toys suddenly went AWOL.

I remember a while back someone made a poll whether people thought about leaving the 1/18 scale.

I believe the overwhelming majority said, "give me 1/18th, or give me death!"

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:18 pm

aferguson wrote:these planes are products just like any other and thus sales, discounting etc are going to happen.

With some of the reasoning i've been reading it's like walking into a car dealership and paying full price without negotiating, just so you can support the dealership.

Ok, you do that....i'm going to shop around if that's ok.

I think this F-14 is still way overpriced. It's just getting better in price.

That analogy is moot, since the reason you can shop around for a car is because there's a ton of new models and lots of manufacturers to choose from.

And how many manufacturers are making new historically accurate, model-quality toys in 1/18th again?

Yep. Lots! No, wait... Just one. JSI.

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:46 pm

well, i guess the bottom line is that if 1/18 aircraft as a product can't stand a little discounting and bargain hunting then it wasn't meant to be. There will always be a ready market for them, at the right price and if someone can make them, at the right price, then they will exist...otherwise they will be a passing fancy.

The discussions, decisions, actions or inactions of us aren't going to change that. It's what the rest of the people in the world do, that will effect it. And if the rest of the people in the world buy or don't buy, or wait for price cuts before they buy, then that will determine the fate of JSI and this hobby.

But for me, i'm still going to pay the lowest price i can. If others want to pay higher, then i fully support their actions.

oh, and i don't think the car analogy is moot. If there were only Honda accords in the world, you could still shop around, from dealer to dealer, for the best price.....just like many are doing with the JSI F-14....shopping around from dealer to dealer.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:11 pm

GooglyDoogly wrote:
That analogy is moot, since the reason you can shop around for a car is because there's a ton of new models and lots of manufacturers to choose from.

..But even if you've found a particular make and model of car you like, would you snap up the first one you saw?

From my point of view, with shipping being what it is, every dollar that can be discounted (and then put towards shipping costs) is a good thing. Don't forget, there are collectors from every corner of the globe. If we all had to buy from a small number of E-tailers I think the consumer would come off third best (arent we the reason these toys exist in the first place? For consumers....to consume?) It's almost like the tail is wagging the dog

Just my 2 cents.

Grilledcheese · Post by **Grilledcheese** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:14 pm

I guess it's already been said, but since I haven't commented yet(or did I?):

Sad and simple fact: I'll pay fifty bucks more than necessary for a 1/18 plane when the dealer selling it to me decides to help me out with my utility bill. Fifty bucks nowadays buys me a week of electricity for my house.
Manufacturers and dealers being able to afford the production and marketing of models does me a whole helluva lot of good if I can't afford to buy them---and in that case, I'm apparently not the demographic they're targeting anyway.
WallyWorld and 21st sold tons of XD BECAUSE THE PRICES WERE CHEAP, clearanced or otherwise. Sure, they increased exposure to 1/18 by magnitudes. But the reality remains that much higher prices now are going to mean much less in sales, and 1/18 collecting will go right back where it was before 21st appeared---an obscure hobby for people with a lot of disposable income with product being sold by a couple of obscure outlets.
I'm not complaining or blaming. Just like the world spinning around and the color of the sky, it is what it is.
If you can't make a profit on a product, you don't sell it.

Unfortunately...

Jeffrey