MORE!! bad news for 21C

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:17 am

I spoke with a "former" employee of 21C today. He explained that they are in very seriuos trouble. He was let go and now they only have the GM and account manager left. They are now clearing thier Cali warehouse. He said BC is picking up stuff by the truck load. I highly doubt that BC will offer the same discounts that MD did when they helped close out the Arizona warehaouse.

One good point maybe some long gone items may show up on BC?
I checked and they have just listed some hard to find long gone items. so maybe worth a look.

exether_mega · Post by **exether_mega** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:20 am

Good bye 21st

phil

Grilledcheese · Post by **Grilledcheese** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:25 am

One good point maybe some long gone items may show up on BC

Yep, and at prices, unfortunately, that I will never be able to afford.

Jeffrey

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:36 am

Shame BCA is picking up the rest and you're right, we won't get the same discounts. But BCA is basically next friggin' door to 21C so I guess that explains it.

$100 for a Pearl Harbor P-40, sheesh...

I can name at least two etailers and one big box that I can get this aircraft from for under $50. Right now and in stock.

And yes, I did do business with BCA this month.

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:38 am

i see more private reserve...

paulpratt · Post by **paulpratt** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:06 am

Bad Cat rarely has any deals. Their regular prices are laughable at best. Monkey Depot got everything cheap and probably got it cheaper for picking it up themselves. They translated that into savings for the customer and made a good chunk of cash.
Bad Cat will do the same thing, but they charge twice as much and sit on 1/3rd of the inventory until 21st really goes away to sell at the highest possible price.

edit: Removed controversial "shady" comment, i was rightfully wrong in that word choice. See my explanation in the post below.

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:25 am

Well said Paul,
I just bought an OH-58D Kiowa from BCA. It was the closest thing to a "deal" that I've seen from them (I'm not an F-104 or Me-262 NF fan). In the three years I've been collecting, yesterday was the first time I've ever bought a product from their store. I've usually gone with etailers, FlyingMule or Ebay. BCA's prices were so far skewed from the competition, the choice to whom I was going to do business with was easy.

I took a screenshot of the 21C page at BCA just as a reminder because of the "Private Reserve" $100 Pearl Harbor P-40. Corey, at Smalljoes, has them for under $50 (I picked up two 1/18 planes from him this past month).

Sad really that the remaining 21C stock goes to them.

Rowsdower · Post by **Rowsdower** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:31 am

Well, unless you want cheap-o Bravo Team garbage it looks like the sun has officially set on affordable 1:32 and 1:18 vehicles.

As for BC, I won't bad talk them, I have gotten at least one good deal from them in the past but you definitely won't see any MD type prices there. I can just see 21st 1:32 Shermans going for $50 a year from now.

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:41 am

This does look like the end for 21st. Hopefully they can re-emerge in the future.

Sadder day.

vulgarvulture · Post by **vulgarvulture** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:44 am

It's only speculation, but Bad Cat just comes off as shady in its pricing practices.

I'm not here to defend any etailer for what they do, or don't do. But don't you all think that BCA prices to sell? They must be selling product at those price points otherwise they'd go out of business. What the heck is wrong with that? It's what business is all about, and what making a living is all about. Maybe we would not buy at those prices, but someone is for sure. I'd have to think MD or SmallJoes margin on some items is slim to none, but that's their choice.

I'm not understanding why BCA is bad, or bad for the hobby, which sometimes is a sentiment on this Board. If anything, I think MDs blowout was very bad for the hobby because they will very likely be dealing a devastating blow to other etailers by undercutting pricing so much.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents and that's all it is. I'm not blasting anyone here for having an opinion one way or the other.

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:46 am

Sounds like it is all over but the cryin'

Grilledcheese · Post by **Grilledcheese** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:52 am

I don't think I would classify Bad Cat's pricing as shady, they are just maximizing profits. After all, SOMEONE is buying from them.
The sad reality is that 21st is toast, and much of what they produced is going to keep increasing in price.
For whatever reason, Monkey Depot decided to quickly liquidate the stuff they bought. And because of that I was able to pick up a number of items I would never have otherwise.
It is what it is, free enterprise, free market, whatever. If I can't afford the prices, I don't buy, and I find another hobby to spend my time and money on.
Yeah, it sucks, but so does life in general. And since I won't be King of the World anytime soon...

Jeffrey

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:58 am

Looks liike 21st, and any decent prices, are done. I'm not really sad... It is what it is. They haven't made good choices over the years I'm afraid. It's kind of like retailers that sell for too much not making good choices as well...

That said, I look forward to FOV figures, maybe some BBI, and if they fold so be it. I'm more disappointed in 21st's figures now being gone. They did the best IMO.

BCA can do what they want. I'm certainly not planning to spend money with them unless the price is right, and on the items listed/mentioned so far it's not to me so I just won't buy. Monkey Depot got a lotta cash from me, so good for them for getting the jump on things. I'm pretty happy with my collection as it stands, so I'm not disappointed if I don't get much more now.

usmcchet9296 · Post by **usmcchet9296** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:14 am

Im glad I got most of what I wanted already. If true its sad 21c blew it since they did make stuff that was cool and affordable.

Rowsdower · Post by **Rowsdower** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:21 am

I guess I will be collecting more 1:72. There is no shortage of manufacturers in that scale.

I think one of the big goofs 21st made was that they tried going in too many different directions at once. Models, tiny scale aircraft and armor, 1:48 armor, etc etc. Should have just concentrated on XD and 32X IMO.

immeww2 · Post by **immeww2** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:22 am

I feel bad that 21st products will no longer be around. I only wish that the KT was released as their final product.

Dauntless · Post by **Dauntless** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:29 am

Glad I got most of I wanted too.

This is just too bad.
Wish some other toy maker would buy up all the remaining molds. This though sad for 21st is an opportunity.

Hasbro could really expand on their market with military toys. They seemed to have done well with the realistic military 1/6 GI Joe line back in the day.

I could see them going back to that concept only in 1:18 and 1:32.
Maybe even cross over some to the 3.75-1:18 GI Joe line.
Their 80's toy type vehicle concepts need revamping sooner or later.

mikeg · Post by **mikeg** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:55 am

It does have it's advantages. I haven't been habitually stopping by walmart, tru, whatever- every day; not dropping 15.00-39.95 here and there and having to look my family in the eyes and say I'm out of money---I'll really have to have to want something, enough to get a money order and stand in line at the post office, no more spurious purchases that can't be helped. And at some point, where do you put all your shiznip? at what point does your wife spend all her time at the inlaws and word divorce crop up intermittently in daily conversations? I really don't ever believe I'll find myself in one of those situations, though, most women just seem to wake up one year and realize that their prince really never did come, but his XD did!!!!!!!!!!...

NWarty · Post by **NWarty** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:22 pm

Vulture,
You make some good points and we as collectors let our wallets do the talking. You're correct in that if people weren't buying the stuff, BCA wouldn't be pricing it as such.

Some of the "Private Reserve" stuff...okay, I get it, it's tough to find certain items nowadays, and the value of that item is/has gone up. But come on...a $100 for P-40 when ToyRus has em for $44.95? It's not that it's shady, it's just plain laughable.

As far as collecting the items that I want, I'm definitely behind the power curve

paulpratt · Post by **paulpratt** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:33 pm

Sorry, shady wasn't the right word. Bad Cat advertises the price right there and you can make a decision to pay or not to pay. I get that.
There just comes a point where a fun hobby crosses a line and becomes a caricature of what it should be about. I'm all for making money, but it seems that "collectibles" turn into a pornographic attempt to cash in on people's utter disregard for common sense when it comes to plastic whatever. Whether that be in action figures, or toy BS from the 70s and 80s to today. The fault lies with the customer as much as the retailer. It's circumstances like 21st going under and others taking advantage of it on both ends that make the hobby no longer fun.

gustav · Post by **gustav** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:27 pm

Since this has turned into a "Let's take this opportunity to bash BadCat thread," I may as well add that I believe BadCat is directly responsible for 21st's demise. Although I don't have any proof, I believe that BadCat has been working to undermine 21st with every price increase so that BadCat can raise its prices on its remaining stock of aircraft to around $600 each. Then, people browsing the internet will be forced to open their wallets and order such aircraft.

Shame on Badcat. Maybe the federal government should step in and force BadCat to sell their aircraft at prices that we, as a "Civilian Equitable Price Committee," declare fair and reasonable.

AMERICAN_GRENADIER · Post by **AMERICAN_GRENADIER** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:30 pm

I just wish 21C would give others a chance at those same deals! im sure as in the case of MD they found things in the warehouse they didnt realize they had. i would have like a chance to get some aswell. but its easier for them with BC being so near.

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:40 pm

Wonder what happened to the KT? We heard that the KT was ready, then we heard the KT was "on the water"........ so what happened to it.

I can see a ship load of KT's ending up at "Tuesday Morning" or some such outlet.

We all saw this coming...... it was a good run while it lasted and a bang up ending with the MD sale... Oh well, I guess I'm glad I never left 1/6.

Good bye 21C. We'll miss ya.

TTT

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:43 pm

Guys,
The MD blowout sale was absolutely ridiculous, and we will never see prices like that again. Should we bash Badcat for buying up 21st stock? I don't think so. Just because Badcat chose to buy up any remaining stock doesn't require them to sell it to us at MD prices and we shouldn't expect it. Most likely, the stuff Badcat has bought isn't anything we haven't already seen at MD so we shouldn't get wound up about it.

And to say that Badcat brought down 21st is the silliest thing I have heard this year. If anyone is to blame, blame the owner of 21st as he single-handedly threw his own company down the toilet.

exether_mega · Post by **exether_mega** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:49 pm

hworth18 wrote:Guys,
The MD blowout sale was absolutely ridiculous, and we will never see prices like that again. Should we bash Badcat for buying up 21st stock? I don't think so. Just because Badcat chose to buy up any remaining stock doesn't require them to sell it to us at MD prices and we shouldn't expect it. Most likely, the stuff Badcat has bought isn't anything we haven't already seen at MD so we shouldn't get wound up about it.

And to say that Badcat brought down 21st is the silliest thing I have heard this year. If anyone is to blame, blame the owner of 21st as he single-handedly threw his own company down the toilet.

good point !

phil