Question for everyone

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:56 am

I am just curious to see what the majority of the opinions are around here on this form in regards to AREA-21. After the most recent rant of sorts, it has me a little confused in knowing what value placed on the information that is provided through AREA-21 from 21st Century Toys.

Please understand everyone, that I am not wanting to stir a pot here nor am I looking to get everyone fired up. My intention is just to see if there is other perspectives on efforts made on my behalf personally as well as 21st Century Toys. So with that in mind, and for the sake of not driving our moderators crazy lets keep this topic a little more grounded

So my question is this:

Do you personally place value on the information that is passed from 21st Century Toys through AREA-21.

I know that this may not be a simple yes vs. no question. But try to take into account the good points and the bad points together and then give it a yes or a no grade.

mikeg · Post by **mikeg** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:00 am

MG-42 · Post by **MG-42** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:02 am

* I only have just one answer to your question on here ,..............

* It's very (+) !

Mitch v MG

grunt1 · Post by **grunt1** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:03 am

Simple answer: Yes! In fact, I wish Area21 was even more active..

Greatly appreciate your efforts and those behind the scenes TKO!

As I've said in the past, the issue (for me at least) is the frustration that more 1:18 product isn't released by the leader in the scale.

Any of my statements, regardless of how poorly I may have worded them, are not meant to disrespect, downgrade or diminish the efforts of those involved. I love the stuff!

Just want more..

MG-42 · Post by **MG-42** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:09 am

* The only real deal I have w/ 21st.C "tko211" is ,........ why does'nt 21st. deliver what they say they are going to come out with.

* Like the "Wittmann 007" Tiger I , for instance , that's all. *

Mitch v MG

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:13 am

OK-

Now that my AREA-21 hat is off, I am going to put on my Fan Boy hat. -Yes I get to have an opinion too!.... as a fan!

I personally as a fan see absolute value in AREA-21. I would not be involved if I did not think that it held value for me, or for any of us.
As an old time fan I remember the old days when 21C didn't communicate with us at all! Stuff would just show up at the stores and you were lucky to find it intime before it was sold out and gone. This forum was the only way to get any help back then. Today the forum is still VERY useful and still fun (on most days)

I will be the first to agree that 21C appears to have some challenges and as such they will no doubt dissapoint from time to time. Frankly, I don't see that as being different or unique from anyone else. Admiral, and BBI, and everyone else also face business challenges and have also fallen short from time to time. Privately held toy companies face impossible challenges that are totally unique from mammoth companies like Hasbro and Mattel. The costs and risks associated in tooling large products like 1:18 planes are so daunting that for a private company to finance them and meake them for us is impressive and it takes a lot of guts.

I won't make a list, but for me there is FAR more products that have been shown and talked about from 21C that have been built than not. I am glad that 21C will along preview images / information for future releases. I think that it has helped our hobby and I think it would be missed if it were gone all together and if 21C addoped a total show nothing and share nothing attitude. I guess there might be fewer dissapointments, and then technically- everything would appear to be "on time" but you know- I would bet my entire collection that the posts on this forum would shift to complaints of.... -Where did this come from? -Why didin't I know? -Wish they would have told us so that I could have found it before it was gone... and on and on.

I say, like many other things in life... you gotta take the bad with the good and really I think we have it pretty good. I say keep the information flowing!

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:36 am

Yes, I absolutely love reading news from Area 21; when there is news. No one likes being mislead. Its great to see news, everyone loves news in this hobby, where secrecy has become paramount. However no one likes reading about something that will never come out. No one likes looking forward to something that will never get made. It would be better if 21st did not announce something that they will not release. A few others have mentioned that they are better off announcing products when release is definite. Delays and such are obvious and to be expected when engineering problems are encountered, but no one likes hearing about a 1/18 ghost, that is just that; a ghost. If 21st encountered problems with their MIG-21. F-4, and B-25, and decided to scrap them, then those 3 should have never been announced to begin with. Yes BBI, and Admiral encounter delays and whatnot, but 21st has mislead the fans more than both those two combined. TKO, don't take this personal, as you are just the messenger, and I do appreciate what you do. Believe me, but no one likes hearing news that ultimately will fall short. Given the current state of this hobby, and how 21st has been in recent years, it would not surprise me if some of us in 2009 say "oh hey, 21st just cancelled their phantom, remember that one they announced at toyfair 07?". Then someone will reply "oh yea, I forgot about that one, they barely mentioned it since then.

Its true that most of their announced items were looked forward to. However, it is also true, that the projects they announced but never got off the ground were ones that more people looked forward to(A-10, F-4, B-25, MIG-21). With that said, news is only valuable if said items are confirmed, and will indeed make it into customer's hands. It leaves a bad taste in consumer's mouths when they are lead to believe something will come out, but ultimately doesn't. With Admiral, at least we know why their F-4 isn't going to be out anytime soon. With 21st? The last thing we heard was the s1 scheme, nothing else. The MIG-21 and B-25 only amounted to a news announcement, nothing else afterwards.

It takes a lot of guts for companies such as the ones in the hobby market to create 1/18 aircraft. No one doubts this, and its incredible that they choose to still make the planes despite the astoundingly high costs of productions. However from now on, I think news should just be saved for items that are truly set to come out from the onset. Why was news of the 262B S1 great? Because it was already in production. So its good hearing about news, but only news on items that will come out for sure.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:39 am

I think the work you do is A+++++

I don't have any problems, hats off to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The information I get from area 21 is highly valued, even if there are delays in the proposed product, at least we know what to look forward to down the road. Even if the target date for release is missed by a year. I gives us hope!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also want the b-25, F-4 and the Mig -21 to be made before we see anything else. No big deal I can wait!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for the A-10 unless 21st starts to make modern forces again we will not see an A-10 Right now they seem to be focused on WWII and Vietnam

exether_mega · Post by **exether_mega** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:40 am

definitely yes !

phil

CW4USARMY · Post by **CW4USARMY** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:54 am

TKO,

Area 21 is a great idea and you do a great job with the news your are given. Only problem I see is that 21st doesnt give you timely or relevant info or status to post about the most important news items for the 1:18 collector such as B-25, F-4, Mig 21 and such. We did get a news item about King Tiger but I would imagine that if past history is any indication, we will see that someone will post here that they found one and then a couple of weeks later 21st will let you know they have been released. i.e..... news about new paint on M16 after they were already being found at ToysRus, still no new updates about platoon figures yet someone has found them, news about the Me262 Nightfighter after on-line retailers already had them on pre-order.

I dont think anybody expects 21st to give such details as hard timelines, but just a little status of progress for these desired items. I realize it is only my opinion but with all of the work and effort you put into the site, the least 21st could do is provide you with timely relevant info about the products that this forum is about.....1:18 military.
Im sure there are folks who really care about 1:144 scale and 1:48 scale but this forum started, and continues the strongest in 1:18, and we get the least amount of info, or info after we already know.
The last update to any of the birds above was FEB 07. Can 21st even tell us if they are a go or not? Could you get them to throw us a bone, or do they truly believe their competition will crush them if they let us know even the slightest news.

21st is still the leader and I will continue to buy their great new items, but if they are going to sponsor a news site, by all means, give us some good news

Thanks again for all you do TKO!

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:57 am

I think Shin Densetsu pretty much summed it up for me..
I love the intel and I greatly appreciate the openness that 21st has allowed, but I'd rather see stuff that is for sure being made.. I do understand that problems arise and the market changes, in that respect, I think that 21st should also make us aware of changes being made or items being dropped so we don't get the "rants" we have experienced lately.. I think most members will appreciate the honesty if 21st would just come out and say "sorry, we just can't produce that"..

Jolly Roger · Post by **Jolly Roger** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:01 pm

Keep it you must... yess mmmmm.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:08 pm

Jolly Roger wrote:Keep it you must... yess mmmmm.

I agree

CW4USARMY · Post by **CW4USARMY** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:13 pm

Shin Densetsu,

Wish I had seen your post before my post, would have saved me the trouble

. Very well stated!

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:16 pm

Area 21 is very helpful. Thanks for all you do.

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:17 pm

Hello TKO and thanks for this thread.
Yes I value any and all intel coming out of AREA 21!, but if something doesn't come out on time I'm not going to have a bad day. I may post something about wanting my King Tiger but its just in fun.
To use your words "I think we have it pretty good" Well hell thats an understatement, 1:18th scale model/figures pre built and painted and the price.... you cant beat it. My Verlinden 1:16 th figures $30.00 +(each) Tamyia 1:16 King Tiger $400.00.
When product is made out of country its sort of out of your hands (21st, BBI, ect.) It'll be done when its done.
So thanks and yeah we got it damn good! , Normandy

olifant · Post by **olifant** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:20 pm

TKO, I see great value in the 21C website. To stand on the shoulders of those before me, I would reitterate the suggestion that we receive regular updates. Firm timelines we know would be hard to meet so how about listing progress to date in the following manner:

- Decision made to produce
- Mold master complete
- Mold in produciton
- Mold in engineering testing
- Scheduled for production
- In production
- On the water

This would help us know where things are in the process. Thanks for taking the time to care and poll us fans.

blurx7 · Post by **blurx7** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:38 pm

I love the info! I am gratefule 21C continues to make products I want. Thanks for everything you do!

Quixote511 · Post by **Quixote511** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:56 pm

Short of it, YES! I am an Area 21 fan.

The long of it is as soon as info comes into Area 21, I want to know more, and I want there to be more. I guess I am just a big kid. I think you do a super job TKO and please keep it up.

popeye357 · Post by **popeye357** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:11 pm

Yes, Si, Da, Oui, Hai, I love reading about my future purchases for the war machine. The long wait for toys is no biggie for me because Im out of the country every nine months and if something doesnt come out...then oh well, maybe next time. I'm just glad that these companies are out there making the toys I wanted since I was younger and thinner. thanks Area-21!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CW4USARMY · Post by **CW4USARMY** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:15 pm

Hey TKO,

The Hasbro team has a monthly Q&A session with Star Wars figure news sites and forums. They let moderators post questions and then the Hasbro team answers the ones that they can. Keeps fans in the loop and Hasbro in touch with fans. Would 21st be interested in something like that? example:

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/index.php ... icleid=510

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:24 pm

Excellent question in regards to the Q&A session with Hasbro and Star Wars.

I have followed those threads a little myself as I once had an interest in those products and I sometimes like to poke my head around and see what other fan sites do.

Anyway- It is a nice format. I know for a fact that us fans would get a real kick out of having some input as to the direction of questions. When AREA-21 started up we ran a series of interviews with Roy Sutherland of 21st. For the most part I directed the questions but one time we had another fan host the interview.

What I like about the Hasbro Q&A is the method for collecting a concensus of questions that were voted on by the fan base. I would like to try something like that again and actually use this forum to vote on and decide questions to ask with one voice. It is something I would need to propse to 21C as they are obviously a critical part of the interview!

But hey- I would have no problem running it up the flag pole with management to see what they have to say about it.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:27 pm

Also just a little heads up...

I have been working with 21C on a new contest again. This time around everyone at 21C agreed that it was time to do something that was easy, something everyone could participate in, would be free, creative, and would be extremely fun for the winners.

I am not teasing here, details are being worked out and most importantly a time table has to be set in motion, but- when the time is right this year, it will be really fun!

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:22 pm

great, news of a new contest...............shall I mark it down on my 2008 or 2009 calender?

sorry tko, couldn't resist. I do however fully agree with Shin Densetsu and his remarks regarding "holding a carrot" in front of us. After awhile you get tired. However we must remember not to shot the messenger and you know we appreciate what you have done and are doing with us. Keep area21 alive................just no more shriveled carrots.

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:29 pm

The only dissapointment I've had with Area 21 is that there was a promise of fan participation. So far I've seen no fan input or any custom projects shone, nor merchandise or offerings made that seem to have been promised and only one contest. Even the contest seemed a bit contrived since you had to lay out a bit of money just to qualify. I've no ill feelings toward you personally TKO as someone said earlier you are just the messenger. I just don't feel that area 21 has lived up to the hype that was made when it first appeared.

EDIT: Boy the contest message came while I was writing this so TKO you must be Psychic.

Small Scale Military Headquarters

Question for everyone

Question for everyone

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* 21st.C ( ? )

* 21st.C ( ? )