Small Scale Military Headquarters

I made it to the hobby shop today and picked up some Tamiya Acrylics (a few different greens and greys). I'm planning on taking some spare styrene and trying to match the pavehawk colors. I know the grey primer PH is using is very close so may not need to bother with that but will let you know what I come up with for a match.
Phil

Well I put a little time into trying to paint match (not as easy as I thought it would be - reminds me of trying to pick out colors for painting a room, ugh!)
Without spending a fortune in paint, I picked up some greens and greys in Tamiya Acrylics.
It appears that Cockpit Green XF-71 is just about a perfect match to the light green on the pavehawk. The darker green is not a perfect match to any of the Tamiya greens. Here's a some color swaths below of a few. Keep in mind I used a flash on most of these and it tends to "wash out" the color a little - I think the colors are closer than they appear in the picture. Also, these are only one coat swatches so a second or third coat would darken them a little.


The standard Tamiya Nato Green XF-67 is pretty close to the pavehawk dark green(the second one from the left in the following picture)


Although I mixed a little to get 2 more shades that I think are closer. The following picture has two of these. The top one is Nato Green XF-67, Cockpit Green XF-71, and Dark Sea Grey XF-54. The ration I used was 3/1/1 and I was using eyedrops. The bottom one is Nato Green XF-67 and Cockpit Green XF-71 in a 4/1 ratio. I think the bottom one is closer to a match. Here's the same picture with natural light (no flash so it's a little blurry) which shows a better match than the unnatural flash.


If you look at the first picture again the third color from the top on the left column is Field Grey XF-65 and it is close to the dark green pavehawk color but I think the Nato Green is closer (very close to each other).

Anyway, I'm planning on doing a wash on the whole bird after painting Pickelhaube's parts so hopefully the wash will blend it all together if the colors aren't exact matches. If you notice the grey on the pavehawk has been weathered so it appears lighter in some places and darker in others so matching it would probably need a wash as well. The only parts that need the camo are probably the fuel probe and Ammo can for external mounted miniguns. The arm of the minigun mount itself is usually just grey. and the radomes are mostly black with silver/grey lines.

Hope this helps some of you.
Phil

Hey Phil,
Looks like youve got a handel on those paint matches. Nothing is ever easy is it ?

Here is the central radome and the camera on the center line. I don't quite have the port side radome yet. Hopefully it will be done on Sat.
I fianlly had some work this week in my trade . It slowed the project down but the work is surley needed.

So far the tally is this.

1. Center radome -Done
2. Fuelprobe - Done
3. Centerline sensor camera - Done
4. Hard point plugs - Done
5. Port side radome - 85 %
6. M-134 mini - 85 %

Left to do

1.Exterior pintel post
2. Exterior amo can for M-134
3. Interior gun support.

Here are a few pics of the radome and sensor

Hey Pil,
The greens situation is one of the reasons we opted to go with the flat black and gray. But the camo is sparce and if the greens do not not match all that well you probably will not notice. On the fuel probe anyway. The plug on the port side is the light green but I think that you can get away with the lack of match on the radomes and all because they are on a different plain.

Awesome looking!!!!

I can't wait to get this kit. It going to be so much fun adding these upgrades. Really Class A custom work Matt.

Great work Matthew! I really look forward to your update pictures. Again, thanks for your work on this project.

Phil, that darker green looks like JA Green. I have a bottle of it, but no Pavehawk yet to check.

Love the radar and FLIR

looks good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks guys,
It is nice to have ones' work apriciated. I am trying to pull some info off of one of Spuds posts on the gun mount. It lloks like if I do the exterior amo cans in scale the cans span almost the whole wheel pod. In order to do this I (or you guys) will have to CUT OFF the black gab handel looking thing runnuing vertical with the door. I think that I raher just make the can shorter to NOT have to do this .

Opinions ?

Here is the original modified fuel pod pic the second is were I have lengthed it. By doing this it holds a little better.

Now when I make the ext gun mount I could do the mounting clamp and you will have to screw or glue the clamp to the gear pod. Or I can make another full cover fairing and slide it from the other side to meet next to red area. The red area is bondo glazing that will be sanded.
If you want to mount the gun pintel the nav light has got to go bye bye.

I vote to leave the antenna on and make the ammo can smaller.
For those of you wanting to cut out the crew chief door. I just did one of mine. It came out pretty clean but there is some work to be done to make it look right as the bulkhead is not flush behind the door with the hull. Also, the door probably needs to be cut in half as if you slide it all the way to open it is still too large. The real ones have two smaller doors that overlap each other so when fully open it appears as one smaller door. Some type of styrene strip also needs to be added to the bottom to "receive" the bottom of the door and act as a guide.
I also removed the ordnance armlet and found a screw sticking out of the hull. At that point I decided to take the whole thing apart but ended up stripping 2 screws and couldn't get the thing apart to take out the screw left from removing the "armlet."
If I put the armlet back on it is way too big and covers a large portion of the crewchief window. The real ones have a smaller scale armlet. Anyway, the plug PH is making will work if you want to leave the crewchief door closed, but if you were planning on opening it up, the armlet covers way too much of the door opening.
This is turning into more work than I anticipated so may just go with the crewchief doors closed and external mounted miniguns.
Will post some pics if I have time later.
Phil

Pics to better explain last post above.
The first and second show the ugly screw left when the armlet is removed.


The second also shows the door is obviously too large and needs to be cut in half. Only one of the real two sliding doors is visible when opened all the way as one slides over the other.

Notice in this 3rd picture above how much smaller the armlet is and how little of the window is blocked.

Even if the window is cut in half and full opening is there, the BBI armlet is too large, I feel to make the internal gun mounts work well.
The ugly screw is coming from inside the hull. Like I said before, I stripped 2 screws accidentally trying to get the hull apart to I could take the bulkhead out to get to the screw. If I could get that screw out or rid of it I would just do without the armlet completely and fill the gaps left by the screw and the small strip of the armlet on top of the fuselage. Any ideas?
Phil

You could use a dremmel tool to cut the screw down, fill in the hole with modeling putty or fashion a cover from styrene, and then apply paint.

Sounds like a lot of work but it could solve the problem.

The second also shows the door is obviously too large and needs to be cut in half. Only one of the real two sliding doors is visible when opened all the way as one slides over the other.

Notice in this 3rd picture above how much smaller the armlet is and how little of the window is blocked.

Even if the window is cut in half and full opening is there, the BBI armlet is too large, I feel to make the internal gun mounts work well.
The ugly screw is coming from inside the hull. Like I said before, I stripped 2 screws accidentally trying to get the hull apart to I could take the bulkhead out to get to the screw. If I could get that screw out or rid of it I would just do without the armlet completely and fill the gaps left by the screw and the small strip of the armlet on top of the fuselage. Any ideas?
Phil[/quote]

Hey Phil,

It looks to me that if you cut the middel out of the stub and glue them back together and do a little shaping on the bottom wear it overhangs the window will get you were you have to go.

In the photos I have seen some of the Paves have the stub plug with nav light and others are totally devoid of it altogether.

I would say cut about 1/2 inch to 3/4 out of the middel and that way you can hide the screw tap.

Ok,

What I am going to do is cut the tube right off at the center ring sand down the stubs and cast the whole front and tip up to the ring. I think that this will be a good compromise. You will get some detail at the business end.

The hydrolic line WILL NOT BE CAST THE LITTLE SUBS ONLY

G’day Spikeman

Looks to me the main issue with the wing strut mounting points is that BBI mounted them too far forward, in the pictures it is clearly centred on the pillar between the main cabin door and the crew chiefs window, however BBI chose to mount them centred on the outer edge of the pillar.

Here’s a quick and dirty photoshop to show the potential difference of moving the strut mounts backwards would have.



Moving it back a little and rounding off or trimming the lower portions of the strut mounting points should make it over all a little more acceptable.

I’ve looked at the strut sockets of mine several times and realised that there must be some securing them but could not see what, so how do you access the retaining screw for the them anyway?

Spud,
You may be onto something. I have to decide how much more "cutting up" I'm willing to do but it may be a pretty easy fix to just move the ordnance arm back. It's still too big (scale is wrong) but it definitely wouldn't be as noticeable if slid back some and it would still hide the screw.
I didn't realize it was screwed down till I popped it off. If you look inside the cabin at the top where the piece slides through that slot at the top you will see that it has a little notch that secures it when it is slid in (you kind of have to put the notch end in first at an angle then rotate and push to snap it in. I did the exact opposite to get it off. I used a screwdriver and put it in the slot on the front of the ordnance arm (not the one on top of the cabin/fuselage) then I used it as a lever applying pressure pushing the screwdriver back towards the rear of the aircraft which pulls the front edge of the ordnance arm out and away. The screw came out of the ordnance arm fairly easy - no popping noise or anything - I didn't even know it was screwed till it came all the way off and I saw the screw sticking out. I'm guessing to remove the screw you'd have to separate the hull by unscrewing several screws which are behind screw plugs. I removed all but two which I guess are stripped cause I couldn't get them out. After separating the hull I'm guessing the cabin bulkhead is a separate piece inside and it is hiding the screw that holds the ordnance arm (you can't see it when you look inside the cabin).
It appears to me that the hull is not only screwed together but glued as well? So, separating it should be approached with patience. Since I won't be getting mine apart any farther I'll try to work around the screw.
If this was confusing I could post a picture showing how I got the ordnance arm off. let me know if you need it.
Phil

G'day pcoughran

Thanks for the info, if you do have the time to post some pic's of the removal method that would be great and I'm sure it will assist others contemplating the same task.

pcoughran wrote:Spud,
You may be onto something. I have to decide how much more "cutting up" I'm willing to do but it may be a pretty easy fix to just move the ordnance arm back. It's still too big (scale is wrong) but it definitely wouldn't be as noticeable if slid back some and it would still hide the screw.
I didn't realize it was screwed down till I popped it off. If you look inside the cabin at the top where the piece slides through that slot at the top you will see that it has a little notch that secures it when it is slid in (you kind of have to put the notch end in first at an angle then rotate and push to snap it in. I did the exact opposite to get it off. I used a screwdriver and put it in the slot on the front of the ordnance arm (not the one on top of the cabin/fuselage) then I used it as a lever applying pressure pushing the screwdriver back towards the rear of the aircraft which pulls the front edge of the ordnance arm out and away. The screw came out of the ordnance arm fairly easy - no popping noise or anything - I didn't even know it was screwed till it came all the way off and I saw the screw sticking out. I'm guessing to remove the screw you'd have to separate the hull by unscrewing several screws which are behind screw plugs. I removed all but two which I guess are stripped cause I couldn't get them out. After separating the hull I'm guessing the cabin bulkhead is a separate piece inside and it is hiding the screw that holds the ordnance arm (you can't see it when you look inside the cabin).
It appears to me that the hull is not only screwed together but glued as well? So, separating it should be approached with patience. Since I won't be getting mine apart any farther I'll try to work around the screw.
If this was confusing I could post a picture showing how I got the ordnance arm off. let me know if you need it.
Phil

I am not sure about Spud but you lost me.

This project gets more appealing every day. I definitely prefer the side radome and the external guns after seeing the progress. That is a complete 180 from when this started. Love how the external mount looks with the fuel probe attached. Can''t wait to see how the other side looks.

Spud,
Looking forward to the Aussie Open with Federer vs. Nadal tomorrow. Is tennis pretty big down under?
Anyway, here's a few pics hope they help.
As far as the ordnance arm goes this is looking thru the port side cabin to the inside of the opposite side where you can see the inside connection and where the screw to mount the ordnance arm is hidden behind the bulkhead.


To get the arm off I used the handle of my exacto knife (blade covered of course) but this picture shows a screwdriver


push the handle back towards the tail rotating the arm clockwise out by applying a decent amount of pressure.


Here's the arm out and you can see how it is notched on one side


A picture of the backside of the ordnance arm


Finally, a picture showing the location of all the screws that hold the hull together. They are behind plugs. I just predrilled a small hole in the center of the plug then put a drywall screw in and jiggled till the plug came out then you have access to the screws. They are set pretty deep inside and have a pretty small head so make sure you have the right size screwdriver or you may strip some like I did.

Phil

Thanks again Phil, the pic's make it quite clear (even Mat' should be able to understand it ).

Tennis, don't get me started, my wife has been umpiring the open (as a lines person) and also the Kooyong Classic the week before, when she's not actually at the open it's on the TV in fact I've been told that the plasma's booked for the evening and if I want to watch TV I'll be relegated to use the barely functional tiny screened CRT, bummer think I’ll just read a war book instead (Apache Dawn is what I’m currently reading, it’s about an UK army Apache Afghanistan deployment in summer of 2007 and just finished reading Roberts Ridge which I can highly recommend).

My daughter is talking about taking up umpiring this years as well, my nephew is also at the open as one of the ball kiddies and my son looks to be applying for this next year.

For me personally, my once a week hit and giggle night social tennis is already too much, but the rest of the family can't seem to get enough of the silly stuff.

I just poped mine off........

I have disassembled two of my Blackhawks for conversion projects and yes, the fuselages are screwed AND glued together. The best way I have found to separate the two halves is to first remove all of the screw hole plugs. Then, using a large phillips precision screw driver, remove all of the screws shown in the post above. Once the screws are removed, use a large ex-acto to cut and gently pry at the glued joints. Keep in mind, there are press fit sockets in the nose area to hold the fuse together, along with a pretty funky seam line. I usually work from the rear of the cabin forward to make the job a little easier once I reach once I reach this area. Also, the windshield and cockpit overhead windows are glued to the fuse after it is assembled, therefore holding the fuse halves together as well. The glue used is very flexible, so just gently pry and cut the windows free. The windshield also has a few mounting tabs that you should try and preserve for for reassembly of the fuselage. Once the halves are separated, you will find an "H" shaped interior wall piece surrounding the crew windows. This is where the bulk of the work will need to be done in order to open up the crew windows and make it look good. This piece is glued to the fuselage wall along with press fit sockets. Be careful removing them, they are tuff. The only way to remove them is to gently pry them off.

Can this conversion be done reasonably? In my opinion, defiantly. Is it easy? It can be, if you take your time. The end result will be certainly be worth your effort.

Hey PH.... You are doing a hell of a job on these parts, they look great. I'm down for a full set when they are ready. I have a Blackhawk fully disassembled and ready to go.

Keep up the good work.

-Rob

Well not to much work on this this week. My regular work kicked in and it is like a shot in the arm as far as my finances are concerned. But I did get hold of one of my favorite songs with some helo action thrown in. What more can you ask for ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f1cwycSWq0