1/18 160th Nightstalker helicopter

[aferguson]

just because a few people will pay a lot for something, doesn't mean a lot of people will pay a lot for something. The 21c 1/18 King Tiger prototype sold for $1500. Does that mean AllGo should release it with a $1500 price tag?...or perhaps just $1299?

[Birddog]

but it's not a 1/18 Hind. It's a black hawk that has been issued umpteen times (thereby watering down the potential market for a new one) and is not overly detailed or accurate for what it is supposed to be representing. It's ok, but it's not collector quality but has a collector price.

Plus with a Hind you wouldn't need all the extra figures; you might just need one (maybe but they would probably include 2 pilots).

Plus to be frank, i think a Hind would generate a lot more excitement than a black hawk and more people would be willing to save up for it or cut out something else for it.

I went grocery shopping today. My bill was about $7 more than it was two weeks ago. That's a 15% rise in two weeks. The prices of things are going nuts. We're seeing double digit inflation type rises in prices of many things. Oil is only partially to blame....a big part of it is there is a mentality of jacking up prices because people have gotten used to seeing big price spikes (due to oil) so they'll just pay it. Unless consumers start balking it's just going to continue because manufacturers will see the opportunity to get away with it.

Times are tough right now. The worst since the depression. And it's not going to improve anytime soon. I think BBI is smart enough to know that a brand new Hind at this price will sell. They're just seeing if they can get away with a similar price tag on the black hawk, to, as i 've said several times, take advantage of the bin laden raid. I suspect it's going to backfire on them.

I wouldn't count on seeing 1/18 jets for many years. If the F-14 didn't do well enough to justify another 1/18 jet then nothing will. It would even outsell an F-4.

True a 1/18 Hind would generate more interests and open more wallets as would an A-10 vs. another F-18 or F-16. I'd definitely be in line for that one just like I would for several A-10s in 1/18 scale at that price point. I agree with all of your points but the last one. I've heard that bbi was happy with the sales of this year's F-16 release. Judging by what I've been reading on the Fighting 1/18th's forum, one retailer has almost sold out of their order of the new Blackhawk. This is a retailer that is not a well known 1/18 scale military retailer either. It would be interesting to see how places like Bad Cat and Military Toy Shop are doing.

If all this is true, then hopefully they will be more open to new 1/18 scale jet subjects. The accepted selling price of subjects in the first hand market has gone way up compared to previous selling prices and that means the key number to sell and make a profit should have gone down. As for the F-14, I don't know that we can really say the F-14 didn't do good enough to justify another 1/18 scale jet. With the changes in the market place, brining a new product of that magnitude to the market may take longer than it used to without the support of big brick and mortar store backing. Not to mention the way the first release was first brought to market with faulty parts, bad finish, and for the most part no customer service. The other jet subjects that JSI was looking at producing, the F-15 and J-11 (Su-27), didn't seem to be popular choices with retailers based on what collectors are asking for coupled with sales of those subjects in smaller scales. If they were able to give their input to JSI, maybe that is why we haven't seen them at this point. JSI went back to the drawing board. Who knows.

Point is, I do think there is price gouging going on with the Blackhawk since it was an existing mold that was barely tweaked, but I think bbi could produce new modern jets like the A-10 and F-4 in a price range of $200-$250 (maybe upwards of $300) and sell them successfully. I don't think quality issues would be a problem with bbi as we saw with JSI.

On a side note, bbi has posted on their Facebook page that an announcement is supposed to come out this week regarding "bonus" parts for the new Blackhawk. Will be interesting to see what these parts are and if they will be free with a purchase or cost extra. Maybe they have really been listening and want to fix the accuracy issues people are talking about for the price charged.

[aferguson]

maybe some of the vendors who are members on the board can chime in as to how pre-orders are going for the BH. I'd be very surprised if they are doing well. The vendor you mentioned may have only taken on a very few of them and just happened to sell them. I can see an initial burst of pre-order interest; afterall there are people willing to pay alot more than $170 for this on ebay. But that doesn't mean that there will be enough people willing to pay $170 to sell out or even close to sell out the whole production run of these.

Judging by the reaction to the price both here and on F118th, i'd say BBI has its hands full unloading all of these....and they know it too, judging by how quickly the 'bonus' stuff has come along.

[iflabs]

Yeap, I wasn't expecting anymore than $100 for this one. I would have no qualms paying $160 for a Hind.

[gouchy]

Bonus Parts? An extra broken-off section of the tail rotor or maybe a dog and handler team perhaps?

Aferg, dont you need a squad of spetznaz to go with your HIND? or would yours be purely a gunship?

[aferguson]

probably purely a gunship but i'll cross that bridge when i (hopefully) come to it.

[tmanthegreat]

maybe some of the vendors who are members on the board can chime in as to how pre-orders are going for the BH.

I can offer a little insight from the vendor I know at my local Hobbytown... We were chatting about these things a week or so ago and he asked if I'd heard of the new Blackhawk. I asked if he was going to order any and he initially wasn't due to the price and the fact that he felt he wouldn't be able to sell any - except probably to me The same store carried the original Blackhawk, Apache, and USAF Pavehawk back in the day when they sold for around $60. For the record, though, he will order at least a couple of the new Blackhawks

[parrish333]

I've gotta say that I agree with the line of thinking Birddog suggested above. In my mind I've always figured the higher prices on the MH-60 and the F-16 was BBI's way of testing the water to see if the market would support those kind of prices. Because if they made a brand-new heli or jet of comparable size, they'd charge about the same. So this is a low-risk way to find out.

So it sucks for those of us that remember $30 BBI UH-60s at Target and $60 BBI F-16s at Target.com. Having already made back their R&D costs on these birds back in the day, I would think they could have sold them now for much the same. But then when they do produce a new 1/18 bird of similar size, and they charge $150 or more, all of their old and new customers would balk. So I think right out of the gate they're trying to see if the market can stomach the new pricing model for fewer, higher priced items aimed at collectors vs. many lower priced items aimed at mass-market.

Looking at the cost of pre-assembled, quality military models in other scales, I think $160 is a decent price. But like aferg and tambo pointed out, then at least get the details right instead of a cobbled-together MH-60. Maybe that's the diff. between the F-16's new price still generating lots of new sales whereas we're expecting the MH-60 to falter. Hopefully their recently announced "extras" will fill the gap.

[aferguson]

but if it's a test then it's not a good test. Since the black hawk has been released so many times, lots of potential customers already have one and a high price on this one is simply going to scare many of them off, making sales weak and sending BBI the wrong message.

By the way, while i would pay this price for a Hind, i wouldn't pay it for any new 1/18 aircraft. It would have to be something i consider really hot. I don't consider a repainted black hawk with window guns (that it should have had in the first place, when first released years ago) hot.

Give a company carte blanche and that's what you'll pay.

[cjg476]

When you come down to it...its a toy...it serves no purpose but to satisfy that cravin us collectors have...I agree its way to much...I want one really bad...like bad bad...but Im not willing to pay that price and other collectors shouldnt either....so we send a message prices are to high...but thats just me

[B17Fortress]

Bonus Parts? An extra broken-off section of the tail rotor or maybe a dog and handler team perhaps?

Aferg, dont you need a squad of spetznaz to go with your HIND? or would yours be purely a gunship?

I take it the broken-off tail is for people to simulate a crashed chopper from an oh-so-famous battle?

The list of items to compliment the Mi-24D I would want has already been posted on this forum (twice) but needless to say if they don't anything Soviet-Afghan war besides the Hind, this little board member will be displeased. Does nobody have interest in this decade long war?

[Sarge1234567]

man i wait so long for a blackhawk, and it is double the old price. I am really mad right now!!!!

[cjg476]

man i wait so long for a blackhawk, and it is double the old price. I am really mad right now!!!!

DITTO

[Birddog]

While I think the price tag for the re-released Blackhawk is steep, I believe that this is the price point bbi is wanting to go forward with on subjects of this size in 1/18 scale. The new Me 109 release is selling for basically $100 and it's half the size of the Blackhawk. Looking at the detail level differences between the Blackhawk (one of bbi's first subjects) and the Me 109 (bbi's latest subject) , there is no doubt in my mind that future 1/18 subjects bbi produces will be well worth these price points or higher when it comes to quality and detail. New subjects that have not been produced before will always make most collectors more willing to dig deeper in their pockets for the ones they want. Especially if the quality and detail are there.

I know the majority of the stygma surrounding the new price is knowing what we paid for one years back when they were being sold through mass retail outlets coupled with the detail issues. While the F-16 price was way higher than what many payed for one years back too, there didn't seem to be as much fall out over the price increase. I think this was because of its past selling prices and the recent release of the F-14 and it's price tag for a brand new subject. Kind of makes me wonder though, if the F-16 was a totally new subject, would bbi have set the price point higher?

The market has changed in many ways and those that have started collecting 1/18 scale over the past couple of years are use to the higher prices and for the most part don't know any different unless they follow the forums and read our posts. While I agree that this probably wasn't the best testing of the waters by bbi, I do hope the results are successful in their eyes so that they will get back in the saddle again and start brining us new 1/18 scale products that warrant the price tag.

[gouchy]

Bonus Parts? An extra broken-off section of the tail rotor or maybe a dog and handler team perhaps?

Aferg, dont you need a squad of spetznaz to go with your HIND? or would yours be purely a gunship?

I take it the broken-off tail is for people to simulate a crashed chopper from an oh-so-famous battle?

The list of items to compliment the Mi-24D I would want has already been posted on this forum (twice) but needless to say if they don't anything Soviet-Afghan war besides the Hind, this little board member will be displeased. Does nobody have interest in this decade long war?

I was kidding on the bonus parts cos this bbi one I'm guessing is not even close to the one used in the Operation

be interesting though to see what bbi can come up with to sweeten the deal, and it had better be dang sweet with extra sugar on top to win people over judging from the comments here on the mentioned retail price

Wonder ff they can make this Blackhawk modular, with lots extra parts to swap for different configurations, like the wings with extra fuel tanks of the old blackhawk? That'll be real nice for added value and playability

I'd would love to see modern russian figures made, afghan theatre, arctic, spetz, etc, lots of choices

[Castroww]

Ok so I happened to check BBI'S facebook and the bonus part they've been proclaiming to announce are a pair of antenna... Weak!

[aferguson]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaahh!! FANTASTIC. Now i'm gettin' two for sure. 2 Thumbs up for BBI!!!


lol.

[Tambo]

Funny thing is they are not Antennas. They are called Pitot tubes, for ram air...to work the Airspeed indicators. Tips should be painted silver.

[rohirrimknight]

By adding only these parts and it will make the price US$179.99 now look reasonable????? Not for me.

[pickelhaube]

Well I tell you $170 is way too high but I am still getting one.

Although I am doing some heavy trading to get it.

I am with you guys the hype for the pitots / antennas was humorous to say the least.

When I get mine I will cut out the front windows but am not sure IF I will touch the winglet stubS.

It is in the original " wrong " position but it does not bug me like that blanked in widow.

I wonder if this will hurt the model or help if I were to resale it. IF I RESALE IT.

I will mount my fuel probe on it as well.

Would this rendition use the fuel probe ?

[rjvilla82]

i think there's going to be more than a pair of tubes...there has to be

[aferguson]

yes there's gotta be more to come. The hype just for the pitots only underscores the overpriced price tag. I was hoping they were going to throw a bunch of figures in.

Boy, if us diehards are blanching at the price, how are the casual colectors gonna feel?

[Castroww]

We're just as heartbroken.

[granch]

PH,
Good luck with cutting the front window!!! Please show picks how you'll place another one. If you're successfull, I will try. The small upper windows are also too small, with their large rivetfull edges. But I would prefer a rebuilt of the front doors, their small window in the window is old history and strongly disturb the visibility inside out or outside in.
I think that your fuel probe kit has a nice future with this "new" BBIrd. And what about your crab eyes detectors ?

[Birddog]

New pictures are up on bbi's Facebook page of the Nightstalker Blackhawk in package. They have stated production is complete and will be in US retail Jan.-Feb. 2012.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/BBI-Colle ... 2475407430