POST PANZER IV FINDS AND DISCUSSION HERE

krieglok · Post by **krieglok** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:47 pm

Just a quick review of the 21st pictures on various websites shows that none of the pictured models have the complete headlight. they are all missing the upper half. I have included a shot of the FOV "H" with the headlight in place and the 21st version to compare. Perhaps who ever is going to make side skirts could make up a Bosch upper headlight portion...

TJ

digger · Post by **digger** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:58 pm

Someone pointed out to me that he 21st Panzer IV H is an exact replica of the Tamiya G, so all those discrepancies make sense. The replication is not surprising as it is what 21st usually does - see the M113.

The headlight ommision is odd - it seems to have been forgotten altogether.

What may be most annoying though is that damn FOV Panzer has twice as much detail and a much better paintjob

krieglok · Post by **krieglok** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:25 pm

Thanks Centone for making me eat my words.

Yes you are correct in that the tank is a "J" version owing to the lack of side vision ports for the driver and RO as well as the elimination of pistol ports on the turret side hatches. These tanks has side skirts(mostly) as well as "Thoma shields" that were made up of wire mesh to replace the solid side skirts. I am planning on trying to make a set. When I head down to the hobby shop to pick up some sheet stock for the skirts, I guess I will have to pick some solid plastic dowel to make the head light top. Grrr.....Thanks for the correction. I had trouble reading my PZKW IV book in the dark since my headlight was missing.

TJ

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:10 am

Hey, would it work to use window screen for the late model panels?? Maybe cut it to shape and glue it to a wood or metal frame........

-Ski

krieglok · Post by **krieglok** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:01 am

I have seen one photo showing the Thoma shields. It appears to be a square patern(like window screen) with a zig-zag pattern running through it. The window screen is a good idea as it is pretty close in both pattern and size. The mounting frame is something that may need a little more reasearch. It doesnt appear the same as the solid skirt mounts, but then again the photo I have shows very little.

TJ

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:08 am

I uploaded a picture of a MK IV with the mesh Shcurtzen into the Miscellanious folder. I got the photo out my trusty German tank encyclopedia. There will be NO problems using window screen as a mod. The photo clearly shows the rack and the fact that the mesh just hangs from it without a frame, from what I can see. This will be easy!!

http://community.webshots.com/photo/127 ... 1031jkcxiR

-Ski

krieglok · Post by **krieglok** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:54 pm

I wonder if the vinyl screen would be easier to work with. The one diagram I have seen of the Thoma shield shows a solid plate at the front end of the shield system. You can see it in your upload. It looks like paired rivited or bolted fasteners used to hold the shield to the brackets. Yes a simple looking mod. I will have to try it. Thanks for the info.

TJ

Post by **aferguson** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:08 pm

Vinyl screen will be wobbly and hard to keep flat....wire screen will probably be better. How common were these thoma shields anyway?

krieglok · Post by **krieglok** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:02 pm

In my library, I have found one partial photo and three diagrams of the system on three different types of tanks. It may have been more common than we figure since the Germans were not taking as many photographs of their own equipment towards the end of the war so the documentation doesnt exist. I will have to dealve into to this a bit more. Also, it stikes me as odd that this late version of the PZKW IV does not have Zimmermit. I know the application of Zimmermit at the factories was ended some time in 1944 I believe. Hmmm....

TJ

momaw nadon · Post by **momaw nadon** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:25 am

If you use the vinyl window screen, I would add a fabric hardener to it. That way it would remain solid and strait. You could add battle damage to it before it is dry too.

I have a question on the side shields. Would the be see through like it the picture that ski has? Or would the have a backing to them? This is the first time I have even heard of Thoma shield. Thanks
momaw nadon

shorty · Post by **shorty** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:14 am

krieglok wrote:...this late version of the PZKW IV does not have Zimmermit. I know the application of Zimmermit at the factories was ended some time in 1944 I believe. Hmmm....

TJ

zimmeritt ended in nov of 44 i think, due to some rumor about it catching fire when it was hit by HE rounds or something, doest mean you still can't apply it though since it'll obviously look much meaner and cooler

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:59 am

I think it was sept '44 that zimmerit was officially discontinued, since the threat of magnetic charges never materialized as they thought it would.

I'm not sure that Panzer IV's were still being produced at that point. I would imagine they were but it's possible that production was focused on panthers, tigers, king tigers and tank destoyers by then. It's pretty rare to see a pz IV without zimmerit.

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:03 am

aferguson wrote:I think it was sept '44 that zimmerit was officially discontinued, since the threat of magnetic charges never materialized as they thought it would.

I'm not sure that Panzer IV's were still being produced at that point. I would imagine they were but it's possible that production was focused on panthers, tigers, king tigers and tank destoyers by then. It's pretty rare to see a pz IV without zimmerit.

I'd agree with Aferg..Although Panzer IV's were being produced in different variants until the end of the war..

krieglok · Post by **krieglok** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:13 pm

Panzer IVs were being delivered right to the end-brand new not rebuilt. In the book "Armagedon-the battle of Nazi Germany", the auther interviews Panzer troops who took delivery of brand new PZKW IVs in the final weeks of the war but couldnt use them since they had no fuel. It was amazing that German war production was actually up during 1944 since the Germans had learned to work around Allied bombing and destruction of factories and transportation. It still wasnt enough though.

TJ

c44 · Post by **c44** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:07 pm

...check out picture at http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA ... nes-6.html (about 2/3 down the page, at sub-chapter 127 --- you can click on the photo to enlarge it)...curious that this site calls them "Bazooka Pants", a new one on me...

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:45 pm

Just got the first of my Panzer IV's from BadCat, what a great tank. The muzzle break was in the wrong position so I just gave it a twist and its fine.
I have no problem with the lack of interior and engine but no schurtzen

oh well I'll just make some

The two figures are very well done nice camo as well. Anyone besides me have a hell of a time getting the commander out of the turret ?
Those FedEx boys must of been doing a bong on there break, cause they went down my street 3 times (no joke) it was comical untill the guy two doors down comes walking up to my house with my Panzer. They delivered to the wrong addres. Its a good thing hes not into armor.

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:13 pm

Normandy: do you plan on doing any customizations of the Pz IV (hummel, wirblewind etc) or are you going to wait it out to see if 21c makes them?

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:24 pm

Aferguson, to answer your question...yes. Im sure 21st will come out with a few variants of the Panzer IV but when? Hell Im still waitting for the Jagdpanther.

Thats why I did one.
As of now I've got 3 Panzer IV's...well 1

Mrs. Normandy has the other 2 and is holding them till my birthday, Feb.

Hate when that happens. The first porject will be either the Sturmpanzer IV "Brummbar" or the Jagdpanzer IV "Lang". I'll be starting one or the other in a few weeks.
Currently Im working on a prototype of a Panther that never went into production. I came across a book called "Exotic Panzers in Miniature" which had a 12.8 cm L/55 gun mounted in a Panther. This is the gun found in the heaviest German tank destroyer the Jagdtiger. Having fun with this project, got one of my winter Panthers cut up and I'll have some pics up in a week. Take care, Normandy

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:03 pm

Normandy: I think i'm going to follow your lead and do some customs on the Pz IV. Like you said, i thought a Jagdpanther was a no-brainer for a follow up release to the Panther FOUR years ago and still not a mention of it.

Deciding on which to do is the toughest...there are so many i'd like...my most desired would be a Wirblewind but i expect that is also the most likely follow up release by 21c using their Pz IV chassis. 2nd choice would be a Hummel.

Still, i figure i'm going to want more than one of all of the german tanks in my collection and i can heavily drape my customs in foilage, netting etc (a look that i love) which will also hide my lack of customization talent....better to hide my customs under foilage than a spiffy new 21c one, if they ever come out. Doing a custom just means i'll buy one less of any new release that may come along.

I look forward to seeing pics of your future customs...

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:06 pm

Aferguson, I'm glad to hear that. A Wirbelwind or Ostwind would look sweet! Camo netting looks nice on these large 1/18th tanks but don't underestimate your customizing talents! Go for it.
Well time to get back to work....uh anyone see my dremel?

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:37 pm

I just saw that Small Blue Planet has the Panzers instock.

digger · Post by **digger** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:11 pm

Not Yet.......

HIDEOUS ONE · Post by **HIDEOUS ONE** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:55 am

I recieved my Panzer about a week and a half ago and it was in great shape. I was convinced that there would be side skirts in the box somewhere. Unfortunately there were none and I was forced to make my own out of balsa and sculpy(rivets). Plus I went with Ardennes camo paint job instead of the octopus pattern it came with. All in all it looks great. I do wish that it would have come with the skirts though. I don't know why they didn't.

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