P-40 Flying Tiger Question

Gusthebus · Post by **Gusthebus** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:37 pm

I was just wondering why the P-40 flying tiger seems to be so hard to get? Every time it is on ebay it sells for a lot also. Thanks.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:48 pm

They were out everywhere for quite a while back around 2004, both at small retailers and at Wal Mart. The distribution of the P-40 paintschemes at Wal Mart was regional, with the west initially getting the RAF version and the east the AVG variant. I think the 1:18 RAF P-40s are even harder to find.

Gusthebus · Post by **Gusthebus** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:02 am

Does anyone know any online retailers that still sell this plane or have an extra one they are willing to sell/trade?

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:52 am

be patient...

aktiger · Post by **aktiger** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:16 pm

An earlier thread referenced that C21 may be re-releasing the p-40 with an updated version of the Flying Tiger.

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:41 pm

I think some one knows something.......

aktiger · Post by **aktiger** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:43 pm

I agree. What's up, TK?

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:48 pm

21st knows that the P-40 AVG is a very popular scheme. It did quite well for them back in late 04. I know there has been discussion about doing another AVG scheme back at 21st HQ.

Whenever anyone considers an AVG scheme the Hells Angles unit is best sales wise. I would go with a bet on Bond, Older, or Tex Hill's aircraft this time around.

An AVG P-40 sould do well in a mix of other airplanes at mass market somewhere down the road. Main steam or new fans could support sales I would think.

-TKO

flpickupman · Post by **flpickupman** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:29 pm

Allow me to once again harp on North Africa.

A US scheme perhaps. The 33rd, 57th, 324th and 325th FGs all operated P-40s in the MTO. A 79th FG P-38 would be pretty sweet too. See? The possibilities are endless!

Gusthebus · Post by **Gusthebus** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:06 pm

Hey TKO, thanks for the info. That is great news. Do you know if they are still releaseing the Boyington Corsair? Also will it come with ground crew as previously mentioned? Thanks.

Rogue · Post by **Rogue** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:01 am

flpickupman wrote:Allow me to once again harp on North Africa. A US scheme perhaps. The 33rd, 57th, 324th and 325th FGs all operated P-40s in the MTO.

US in MTO was P-40F's, ie Merlin powered P-40's.
Quite different from B's and even E's.
My Father-in-law was in the 33rd all across North Africa.
Thats one of the squadrons that flew off of the carrier during Operation Torch.

flpickupman · Post by **flpickupman** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:41 am

A very significant difference indeed. Well dang. Maybe one day 21st will see fit to retool the P-40 into an F model. Here's to hoping!

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:44 am

The P-40F combined the radiator, oil cooler, and carburetor intake into one intake. This is why the P-40F does not have the long carburetor intake on top of the cowl. The Merlin engine had an updraft carb, and it had its intake in the chin scoop.

Flytiger · Post by **Flytiger** » Sun May 07, 2006 8:15 am

If you're looking for authenticity you're in for some hand work on the Flying Tiger version. It's a 2nd and 3rd Squadron melange.

The markings of Johnny Petach (2nd Sq #47), R. T. Smith (the victory meatballs) and Duke Hedman (the walking angel) (both 3rd Sq as is the red rear fusealge band) are used. Plus the blue "V" on the leaping tiger was actually pretty rare.

Some of this may be as a result of trying to avoid a commercial likeness licensing issue with the Flying Tigers Association.

Then of course you need a set of white stars and a circle to go in the blue rounds. For that I think we have to credit the pinhead bureaucrats in China's customs army, despite the fact the AVG vets have been honored guests of the Chinese president (2005).

All in all, it's a great basis to start a project on.

FYI - the K and later models were also longer. As they added horsepower, they had to lengthen the rear fuselage.

Big Duke 6 · Post by **Big Duke 6** » Sun May 07, 2006 10:21 am

TKO-

Will it be a repaint and a new tooling ???

BD6

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Sun May 07, 2006 2:01 pm

Excellent question...

I seriously doubt that it would be retooled but, you never know. As far as a paint scheme goes. Yes it would be a new AVG scheme. As others have pointed out it would be more correct to one specific pilot's mount. My bet is on Charles Older, or Tex Hill.

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Sun May 07, 2006 3:01 pm

If 21st would just fix the windshield, they would sell a lot more!

-Ski

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Tue May 09, 2006 3:27 pm

This was in my e-mail box this afternoon. I was asked to share it with everyone. I found it very interesting as I didn't know the history behind this paint scheme. (at least not all the details) It actually makes me like it a little more now.

-TKO

-The following is from Roy Sutherland with 21st Century Toys-

Our P-40B/C Tomahawk S1 is correctly painted in the markings of R.T. Smith. This is one of his other airplanes. It was previously flown by John Petach of the 2nd Pursuit Squadron “Panda Bears”. It was moved to the Third Pursuit Squadron “Hell’s Angels” in late spring-early summer of 1942 and was partially repainted. The blue fuselage stripe was repainted in red, Petach’s mouse on the motorcycle was obliterated, and the Disney designed Flying Tiger decal was applied on both sides of the fuselage. RT Smith also had his name, kill flags and Hell’s Angel art added at this time. His Flying Tiger decal had the two blue flashed added, making one of the most colorful of the AVG P-40’s. We worked from an original photograph that clearly shows all of these features. Also, please note that Robert Hedman’s Angel had the left arm trailing behind her, while Smith’s angel had her arm raised over her head.

The P-40 is painted to represent a typical AVG P-40C. These were re-allocated from a batch headed for the RAF. This is why they were painted in DuPont equivalent British Dark Green and Dark Earth colors, with a non standard light grey underside color. Visible on the wings is evidence of the overpainted British upperwing roundels.

I understand that stickers for the wing markings are disappointing. I agree. But please realize that it is not because of political correctness on 21C’s part, but due to manufacturers in China being unwilling to print the markings on the airplane due to Customs restrictions. Same with Swastikas and Japanese Imperial flags (although somehow we can include these as kill markings!). Nothing we can do about it. Also, big box stores obviously refuse to carry anything with Swastikas as national markings.

I hope you find this information useful. We are going to be revisiting the AVG P-40 later this year. A new scheme will be coming then.

Happy collecting! Roy

digger · Post by **digger** » Tue May 09, 2006 7:35 pm

Flytiger wrote:If you're looking for authenticity you're in for some hand work on the Flying Tiger version. It's a 2nd and 3rd Squadron melange.

I had a feeling you were in for it with that comment... it is safe to say they are not fooling around at 21st these days...

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Tue May 09, 2006 9:50 pm

The only inaccurate 21c planes, then, are the S1 Stuka and the "Blue Nose" P-51. Sure there are omissions on many of the aircraft (like the swatstikas) but the rest of the markings are usually spot on to the real thing. That's pretty good, considering how many aircraft types (and repaints thereof) 21c has produced thus far

digger · Post by **digger** » Wed May 10, 2006 5:19 am

I don't know if I'd go that far...
I think the SP P-38 is a made up scheme, and then there are other slight problems here and there with different model planes being depicted as another (Shark P-38, maybe winter 109?). However I like to think those days are long gone after seeing how awesome the Starfighter and other recent schemes have been.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed May 10, 2006 8:33 am

Yeah, I am pretty sure the early days of "roll your own" schemes are pretty much done.

Roy Sutherland spends so much time researching the paint and fact checking. He knows a ton of people who are experts as his sounding board. He really pours himself into the work.

The only made up schemes I am aware of were the S1 stuka, Old Blue nose P-51, Sam Payton P-38. the Shark P-38 is accurate but not on the correct model P-38.
Shark P-38 was obviously a recon ship!
Also the Korean Corsair (S2 - S3?) was not the correct Corsair model.

As Digger pointed out... Today things are very different. F-104, bf-109G6... More stuff like that now has the ability to be modified to the various models.

A funny story- I was at 21st HQ a while ago and I was hovering over Roy's shoulder as we was working on the Zero schemes for the 32x planes. Anyway, a co-worker comes rushing in and says "Roy I know what the Japanese writing says on the side of that plane now" and proceeded to translate the "nose art" on the side of one of the schemes. I can't remember exactly what it said, but my point is that Roy wasn't going to rest easy till he knew everything about that scheme including what it's translations were. It was kind of a cool thing to see in my opinion.

Flytiger · Post by **Flytiger** » Wed May 17, 2006 12:02 pm

Digger - the actual plane in question is in a photograph on page 193 of Larry Pistole's "The Pictorial History of the Flying Tigers," and in that picture (although it is in black and white) you can see that the Tiger does not have the blue V.

And yet another picture of R. T. on page 143 depicts his Angel, which is seated as is the one on his #77 plane on page 203. (Another version of that picture can be viewed here: http://home.att.net/~ww2aircraft/RTSmith2.html ) and yet another very early picture (Nov of 1941) prior to having the red colors filled in on the angel:
http://www.tigersflying.com/gallery/77atkyadaw.jpg

R. T. was something of a dedicated amateur photographer and was one of only a handful of the AVG who brought color film with his camera. Included among the color pictures in the Pistole book are two that also show the wheel hubcap swirl pattern to be blue, red and white, not the black as used on the 21st C P-40. One of those is also on the web at:
http://www.tigersflying.com/gallery/olderandrt.jpg

So again, it's a great model to have, but it is a wee bit confused.

digger · Post by **digger** » Wed May 17, 2006 4:19 pm

Flytiger wrote:Digger - the actual plane in question is in a photograph on page 193 of Larry Pistole's "The Pictorial History of the Flying Tigers," and in that picture (although it is in black and white) you can see that the Tiger does not have the blue V...

Hey, I'm not claiming to know one way or the other - your call sign suggests you would know - I just said I had a feeling you would get a response with your comment. I appreciate how this group catches and calls out even the slightest details, so I'm not discouraging that in the least. I love the accuracy and I love knowing when they are off. That is why these models and this board keep my fancy.

warhawker · Post by **warhawker** » Thu May 18, 2006 7:31 am

Rogue wrote: US in MTO was P-40F's, ie Merlin powered P-40's.
Quite different from B's and even E's.
My Father-in-law was in the 33rd all across North Africa.
Thats one of the squadrons that flew off of the carrier during Operation Torch.

Rogue, funny that you mentioned this. I remember my Elem. school assistant principal/coach was possibly in the same unit due to the fact of him showing us B/W film in class of P-40 takening off carriers off the North Africa. As well later on, I remember him telling a story of flying over North Africa in his P40 during Rommels retreat and seeing the vast amount of german armor left behind in the desert. He and his wing man would land and go looking for german souvenirs and ride german motorbikes left behind. Now if I could only remember his name.

Small Scale Military Headquarters

P-40 Flying Tiger Question

P-40 Flying Tiger Question

Repaint p 40

well..

well.

tiger