21st Merrill's Marauders set

Post by **aferguson** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:09 am

hm. If they're going to do a box set like this they really should include a brand new item. Not just a bunch of recyled ones. That way the set is a good buy for everyone. A good example of this is Toy Biz's LOTR line. They do exclusive multipacks where one figure is brand new (like the Murmakil driver, the Mouth of Sauron etc) and the others are recycled. Just offering a bunch of stuff that has essentially already been released is less interesting.

However, hopefully a sign of better things to come...

digger · Post by **digger** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:33 am

I'm not sure I agree. Many of us would be real pissed if we had to buy an entire bulk pack to get the howitzer that we always wanted. I think the set is great for: someone who started collecting in the last few years, someone to pick up as an Xmas gift for a kid (couple of trucks, some army men, and some history to boot!

), or to lure somebody in as they could get a whole dio in one shot. I plan to buy it for collector purposes, the packaging, etc....may even grab 2 so that I can army build the figures.

Obviously we would all love to see a new piece, but I rather it not be packed in with a bunch of other stuff.

Quixote511 · Post by **Quixote511** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:31 am

I have to go with digger on this one. Remember how ticked people were that they could only get the 32x pak 40 in the playset? I like it and I will be army building.
Aaron

Post by **aferguson** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:12 am

ok i've changed my mind....heheh. I'm just disappointed the figures arent' truly new but are in fact, retreads.

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:19 pm

Yeah I agree with Digger on that, as speaking from experience I despise the LOTR packs as does my brother. Very frustrating they are.

The figures are sorta new... I mean, if I were given the chance to buy recast Imp. Officer figures in grey uniforms, I'd jump at the opportunity because even though it's an old sculpt the military uniform doesn't change really so that's cool. That's why I'm mostly digging the Marrauders set, however some new headsculpts would've been nice.

If this is what it takes to get higher profitability out of the figure line for 21st though that's fine. Hasbro does it, Toy Biz does it... And at least 21st's making it something unique that we don't have while Hasbro gives you at best one unique thing and 4 figures you bought on clearance.

rmoore456 · Post by **rmoore456** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:14 pm

What figures could they repaint to look like Merrils Marauders? We have Marines, Paratroopers in jump suits (M42 and M43), BoB soldiers (Mackinaws) and Army in 41 jackets. None of which was worn by the Marauders in combat. Just painting different colors won't work for me.

Ray

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:30 am

21st Century Toys Fans site has some new pics posted on this set.
The first figure shown with equipment looks dead on Matt Damon. Do you guys concur? Take a look.

There are other headscupts that I have seen on other figures - one looks like "Dizzy" the marine and another one I have on one of the early German paratrooper figures.

Does anyone have a link or information on this unit??
Teamski- any data in you archive??

I don't want to condemn something I don't know anything about.

On the surface, I only see reissued vehicles (good if you don't have them) and some reissued headscupts. The figures look good and the equipment looks like familar Marines type stuff. But again, if you are trying to pay tribute to a distingished WWII Unit - make sure the figures, uniforms, and equipment are authentic or don't do it....

mediump · Post by **mediump** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:02 am

looks like they are green paratrooper figures with mix match heads
I like 'em (only problem is I have no local TRU)
this link has lots of info & pics

http://www.marauder.org/pH_079.htm

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:19 am

Thanks for the info.
When this gets released, let me know you want one and I will recon my local TRU for you.

mediump · Post by **mediump** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:51 am

awsome

thanks razor

Mad Ewok · Post by **Mad Ewok** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:59 am

Am I the only one who is disappointed by these rehashes? Looks more like an Operation Market Garden set than anything.

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:08 pm

rmoore456 wrote:What figures could they repaint to look like Merrils Marauders? We have Marines, Paratroopers in jump suits (M42 and M43), BoB soldiers (Mackinaws) and Army in 41 jackets. None of which was worn by the Marauders in combat. Just painting different colors won't work for me.

Ray

Actually, the Marines would of been a better choice. I believe that the maruaders used the herringbone drill khakis that look pretty close to what the Marines wore.....

-Ski

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:19 pm

even the accessories are the same US para accessories. Extra webbing on the helmets, cases for the rifles etc.

I agree the marines would have been a better choice. Oh well...the average joe on the street probably won't know the difference. I hope they sell well, the more things like this that do well the more chance we have of seeing new armour down the road.

rmoore456 · Post by **rmoore456** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:24 pm

Teamski wrote:
rmoore456 wrote:What figures could they repaint to look like Merrils Marauders? We have Marines, Paratroopers in jump suits (M42 and M43), BoB soldiers (Mackinaws) and Army in 41 jackets. None of which was worn by the Marauders in combat. Just painting different colors won't work for me.

Ray
Actually, the Marines would of been a better choice. I believe that the maruaders used the herringbone drill khakis that look pretty close to what the Marines wore.....

-Ski

The only thing that is close to the same is the material. The HBT pants should have cargo pockets, the Marines did not. The shirt has two chest pockets with flaps, the Marines had two skirt pockets and one chest pocket without flaps. The arguement could be made that the equipment would cover the pockets but the Marine figures do show this detail fairly well. Repaints of existing figures will not do.

Ray

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:27 pm

Man, I never thought I'd be saying this but...

They're toys. I've been told this in the past myself, and it's sometimes tough to swallow, but this is an exclusive item going to one store (assuming here), with what will likely be a shorter production run than average. They're not going to make new stuff for it. This is the same as Hasbro putting out boxed sets of figures as exclusives for the Star Wars line. They don't put out new stuff because it's a cheap means to get people into a store to buy other stuff, not a new product.

I don't know if they could've done better as far as mixing/matching parts... A Marine top on Paratrooper legs or something, but I think we're missing the point of "exclusives", which are always something that is cheap to produce in my experience. Something they already have waiting to just be reused. Personally, I'm just happy to get something different given how short-changed the figures section of the hobby has been. If it's a cheap way for 21st to make a buck and in turn have more financial stability to produce new stuff, I'm all for it, but I actually like the set overall since I don't have the truck, the Dodge Command Car's not a Patton version which is kind of neat, and the figures are "new enough" in my book.

If they were sculpting a monument... Then I'd agree that if it's not accurate, don't do it.

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:13 pm

Jesse James wrote: If they were sculpting a monument... Then I'd agree that if it's not accurate, don't do it.

But just because it's "toys" we just say oh well at least they gave us some more CRAP to buy and buy it??? I would say that 3/4 of the people here would have a problem with 21st Century half-a$$ing their way through a Zero, Avenger or A-10 - just to have it on the shelves by christmas and make a buck or two to really produce a STUG in perfect detail! IMO

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:26 am

No, but toys will be inaccurate at times... It's inevitable because they're mass produced chunks of plastic and not model kits. Star Wars has problems, so XD will too, it's nature of the beast...

The planes have all had problems I've noticed, but that doesn't mean that a Zero with problems isn't worth buying.

This set is an exclusive to TRU, something to get people into their stores, and like mentioned before exclusives are usually slightly lesser in overall production, and they're not going to crank out all-new sculpts for something like that. They're maximizing their utility to use the business terminology for it, on the sculpts of these figures, to give us something unique that maybe interests us but maybe won't be up to our standards so we'll pass on it, but the hoped for result is that we go to TRU and buy it if we like it...

Where a pocket is, or isn't, and whatnot isn't a detail the average guy knows about or cares about. The set is a "cool sounding" military toy set hoped to entice some people to buy it and not a tailor-made product to commemorate sacrifices that Merril's Marrauders made in the Pacific. To me I like the set enough that I'll buy it but I'm also enticed by the vehicles since I don't have the truck yet... Anything new figure-wise appeals to me though since that's an area of this racket that's gotten short-changed in my views. Then again I don't know much about Merril's Marrauders either to have a major gripe about how they look. I guess I am the guy that they hoped wouldn't notice the inaccuracies and would just buy it.

[img]But%20just%20because%20it's%20"toys"%20we%20just%20say%20oh%20well%20at%20least%20they%20gave%20us%20some%20more%20CRAP%20to%20buy%20and%20buy%20it???[/img]

Like I said, you don't buy it... If it's "crap". If you think it's ok or good enough you buy it... if you don't know any better and like it you buy it, but if you think it's crap and doesn't meet your standards you leave it alone. I felt that way about various things 21st and BBI have made that other guys praised as fantastic.

The thing is though, it's an exclusive... Exclusives for Hasbro are cheap ways to appease a retailer, get in their favor, make them something with minimal effort to make maximum profit... Retailers are happy, and 21st is pleased, and the line continues. The problem with the analogy of making this plane or that plane "half-assed" to get a single good plane is that 21st wouldn't make this or that half-heartedly to get there... They'd maybe repaint a Mustang sloppily as an exclusive to some etailer, or slap a craptacular decoration on a tank and throw some sloppy figures into it and call it the "Target Exclusive Battlepack" or some such as a cheap way to do something for a retailer, but they wouldn't sculpt a King Tiger half-heartedly to get us an Abrams on the shelves.

I think the thing to remember is that they're not monuments... They're toys, and this one in particular is a store exclusive, not a wide release. Imagine if they sculpted all-new Merril's Marrauders figures for this set, maybe some new gear and vehicles or whatever... But it only ever was sold at Toys R Us in whatever limited number TRU said they'd buy from 21st. That's not profitable for 21st, and there-in lies the business problem to the situation. I'd agree that they're inaccurate, I defer to the experts on what Merril's gang wore or used in battle, but the intention behind these sets isn't to make all-new accurate product for people I don't think... not if it's following the same "exclusives" formula other toy lines/companies use. Of course they could surprise us and this could just be an early shot of them or something, but I'm assuming not at this point. I'd dig it if they were 100% accurate just like the rest of the people here though, I just know from experience with other lines that it isn't going to happen a lot of the time if it requires something new to be tooled up and put into production.

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:24 am

Jesse,
Thanks for your input and I understand the point you are making.

rmoore456 · Post by **rmoore456** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:00 pm

Jesse James wrote:No, but toys will be inaccurate at times... It's inevitable because they're mass produced chunks of plastic and not model kits. Star Wars has problems, so XD will too, it's nature of the beast...

The planes have all had problems I've noticed, but that doesn't mean that a Zero with problems isn't worth buying.

This set is an exclusive to TRU, something to get people into their stores, and like mentioned before exclusives are usually slightly lesser in overall production, and they're not going to crank out all-new sculpts for something like that. They're maximizing their utility to use the business terminology for it, on the sculpts of these figures, to give us something unique that maybe interests us but maybe won't be up to our standards so we'll pass on it, but the hoped for result is that we go to TRU and buy it if we like it...

There have been plenty of new sculpts put in exclusive sets. They could do new figures (especially army hbt uniforms) packaged individually and they would sell. The exclusivity would be them packaged together with other products. Hasbro does it with Star Wars.

Where a pocket is, or isn't, and whatnot isn't a detail the average guy knows about or cares about. The set is a "cool sounding" military toy set hoped to entice some people to buy it and not a tailor-made product to commemorate sacrifices that Merril's Marrauders made in the Pacific. To me I like the set enough that I'll buy it but I'm also enticed by the vehicles since I don't have the truck yet... Anything new figure-wise appeals to me though since that's an area of this racket that's gotten short-changed in my views. Then again I don't know much about Merril's Marrauders either to have a major gripe about how they look. I guess I am the guy that they hoped wouldn't notice the inaccuracies and would just buy it.

By your way of thinking 21C should just repainted their first US figures as Paratroopers or Marines and we would have been satisfied. They would have been crucified by this forum. We wouldn't have stood still for the first Germans uniforms just painted black for Panzer troops or white for BoB figures. 21C has demonstrated that they are attempting to make their figures as accurate as possible, they even market them as "Authentic Detailed".

[img]But%20just%20because%20it's%20"toys"%20we%20just%20say%20oh%20well%20at%20least%20they%20gave%20us%20some%20more%20CRAP%20to%20buy%20and%20buy%20it???[/img]

Like I said, you don't buy it... If it's "crap". If you think it's ok or good enough you buy it... if you don't know any better and like it you buy it, but if you think it's crap and doesn't meet your standards you leave it alone. I felt that way about various things 21st and BBI have made that other guys praised as fantastic.

The thing is though, it's an exclusive... Exclusives for Hasbro are cheap ways to appease a retailer, get in their favor, make them something with minimal effort to make maximum profit... Retailers are happy, and 21st is pleased, and the line continues. The problem with the analogy of making this plane or that plane "half-assed" to get a single good plane is that 21st wouldn't make this or that half-heartedly to get there... They'd maybe repaint a Mustang sloppily as an exclusive to some etailer, or slap a craptacular decoration on a tank and throw some sloppy figures into it and call it the "Target Exclusive Battlepack" or some such as a cheap way to do something for a retailer, but they wouldn't sculpt a King Tiger half-heartedly to get us an Abrams on the shelves.

I think the thing to remember is that they're not monuments... They're toys, and this one in particular is a store exclusive, not a wide release. Imagine if they sculpted all-new Merril's Marrauders figures for this set, maybe some new gear and vehicles or whatever... But it only ever was sold at Toys R Us in whatever limited number TRU said they'd buy from 21st. That's not profitable for 21st, and there-in lies the business problem to the situation. I'd agree that they're inaccurate, I defer to the experts on what Merril's gang wore or used in battle, but the intention behind these sets isn't to make all-new accurate product for people I don't think... not if it's following the same "exclusives" formula other toy lines/companies use. Of course they could surprise us and this could just be an early shot of them or something, but I'm assuming not at this point. I'd dig it if they were 100% accurate just like the rest of the people here though, I just know from experience with other lines that it isn't going to happen a lot of the time if it requires something new to be tooled up and put into production.

Yes "toys" made by a toy company, sold at toy stores but marketed for authenticity. If they made the uniforms accurate they would sell like hotcakes just for the figures in army hbt's. Heck, I would buy a few sets. Not counting volume the number of collectible dealers out numbers the "toy" stores that carry 21C products.

Ray

rmoore456 · Post by **rmoore456** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:19 am

I have looked at the set at TRU several times now. Other than the box there is nothing Marauders about it. The figures will do nicely for Market Garden Paratroopers. All the figures have straps and holes for shoulder holsters, the box even shows a couple of figures with them, but none are included.

Ray

billgiff · Post by **billgiff** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:31 pm

I just purchased the Merrill's Marauders PTO set. Like someone mentioned, this set has nothing to do with them except for the box. But for $40.00 I think it's well worth it even if it's all rehash. The paratroopers are real cool with new flesh tone painted faces instead of the flesh plastic or the BoB dead faces. Operation Market Garden would be a better name for the set. I'm still pleased!

Law · Post by **Law** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:25 pm

I found the set today, too, and I agree -- historically it may be a washout, but it's a great bargain, and a great way to get things that were never that plentiful. Plus, new decos on the figs is a nice touch. They gave one of the German paratroop heads a US body!

And I never saw either of these vehicles in person before -- these are both well done.

Good deal....

Law

CW4USARMY · Post by **CW4USARMY** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:11 pm

Just bought this set at Huntsville, AL ToysRus (for those in the area).
I already have everything in the set but it looks too good to pass up, especially for the price!

sarge · Post by **sarge** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:02 pm

normandy wrote:This Merrills Marauders set looks great. I like the idea of the two vehicles in the set, I don't collect PTO but I can't pass on this. As for Toys r Us... uh... lets just say I'm still a little bent about their Non-German Policy its like selling onesided history. I can still go online and order German stuff or go to wally world and see if they carry anything other than FW-190's and yes I may check out my local TRu.
My hats off to everyone at 21st, Well Done! Normandy

Went to TRU to check out the Marauders here in Chas, SC. These TRU's never heard of them nor are they in their computers. I wonder what recon reports 21C is talking about. Hope their reports are not like Bush's WMD reports.

CW4USARMY · Post by **CW4USARMY** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:09 pm

You mean ToysRus slipped the marauder sets over to Walmart so we wouldnt find them and then we would blame the guys on this post for lying because we couldnt find them? Those tricksters!