Pirated 21CT...that many?

[Norsican]

Algo must have one hell of a sales rep.

On Monday, retailers, distributors, and etailers are threatened by Algo with legal and criminal action for selling anything JSI produces, claiming they own the rights to old 21st toolings.

On Tuesday, these same vendors are asked to buy and promote Algo goods, all of which have been cancelled, and/or delayed, and have never existed.

Either this guy is really good or an absolute lunatic.

[Coreyeagle48]

Greetings:

I am with many of the opinions on this forum that All-Go Toys really needs to shut up and start making things rather than whining about missing their molds and people making things the 21st company once produced.

The issue for All-Go here is that if the molds were seized because the former 21st didn't pay their bills, I doubt there is much that they can do about this. If the executives were that concerned about items getting copied they should have paid their bills to make sure they kept their molds, they didn't do that.

I am also under agreement that All-Go is acting too much like 21st. They are "considering" and "pondering"...ridculous at this point. Either make something or shut up. Period. Something is terribly wrong with this company as they couldn't even get Passion Wagon going, and that was an easy repaint and one that would have probably sold as it is a P-51...and yet they are going to make other planes!

Bottom line, they're fooling around has caused a lot of people to exodus this hobby. Some of the longtime collectors are gone. That's what happened to me, I got tired of waiting and moved to collecting something that has consistent releases and good quality. I just wonder if in a way they missed the prime time of the 1/18 market, something they may never get back.

Corey

[Norsican]

Good points, Corey. Algo seems much more worried about what they're not getting instead of spending positive energy to produce something that will sell.

[GooglyDoogly]

All-go toys. New name, same ol' 21st Century Toys. These are the same guys that ran 21st to the ground. They just have a new name. It's still dear ol' 21st with their half-truths, whines, and intimidation tactics.

PS: If you hate China so much, how about bringing the manufacturing jobs *here*? IMHO, it's deceitful for you to claim to be "American-Made" When the only thing that's "American" in your company are the owners.

ALL-GO TOYS ARE STILL MADE FROM CHINA.

[Birddog]

Same old company, different name.......as some have said, they need to redirect their energy in putting something (not old but new) on the market and stop whining. Get the A-10 back, complete/update the prototype and produce it!!!

[maritime96]

I am still trying to figure out how All Go has been "in business" as long as it has. These guys either have a boat load of investor / personal capital to burn or they have free rent / utilites, and are all working out of the goodness of their hearts. I have been in small business for a while and for a company that is suppsed to be in business to "make and sell things", all they seem to make are website changes and promises of "things to come" -- I don't know if things are very different in California but in NY I know those don't make money to pay the bills.

[Birddog]

You have to remember that a website doesn't really tell you how large the company is or how many employees they have working for them. For all we know it could be one or two guys running things out of a home office while the grunt work is planned on being subcontracted out to others in China or somewhere else. This way they don't have to put out much capital until they ACTUALLY decide to do something.......

[coreystinson]

Yes, I think sadly the odds are quite good that Grilledcheese has nailed it. Worse, I suspect it is likely that All Go would rather see *no* product on the market rather than have Chinese factories use those molds. What we have here is a snowball rolling downhill. All Go has a very limited window of opportunity to intimidate retailers into not offering these newer items originating at the Chinese factories who hold the various tooling. All Go needs to show that they control the use of all of the tooling they claim still belongs to them. If they can't control it these days as they did in the past, then why not? Is it because the 21st Century entity owes a Chinese factory a quarter of a million dollars? None of 21st's product was being "pirated" back in the day so what has changed?

All Go needs to get product on the market now, on time, and demonstrate that they plan to have a selection available on an ongoing basis. If this doesn't happen, all retailers will have no choice but to eventually throw in the towel and source product elsewhere.

So let's see...

21st gets in a bind, doesn't pay its bills and the Chinese manufacturers seize their molds and unshipped stock. Sucks, but I can't feel sorry for them.

21st becomes AllGo, promises big things, and produces nothing, for reasons never clearly explained but certainly money related. That sucks more, but I don't feel sorry for them.

AllGo (21st) loses its collective lunch because its former creditors are now producing and selling its old products using the aforementioned seized molds, yet AllGo STILL has not produced anything itself. Sounds like it sucks to be AllGo, and I won't feel sorry for them.
If they have legal beef with their former manufacturers, they might want to take the matter up with their former manufacturers. Threatening anyone else is lame, and doing so ensures that I will never give a flying poop about AllGo/21st Century ever again.

But I'm cranky like that.


Jeffrey

[the_bird]

it just sucks all the way around for the collectors

[AMERICAN_GRENADIER]

its hard on retailers who love the hobby and want to offer products but are being threatened not to. its a tough choice and I really don’t know what to do at times. I can agree with both sides but my customers want the items. if the JSi pieces were illegal then why aren’t they being stopped by customs. allgo must not have a legal way to stop these imports. so is it right to sell JSI items or not?

[Heer]

Funny that 21st century toys didn't survive the 21st century.

[Dauntless]

Yes, tough on you retailers.

On the other hand, everything "pirated" is a rehash. Most have flooded the secondary market now. Those of us already in the hobby for years don't want anything that's being offered these days for the most part. It's been years since I actually ordered anything online, whereas I used to do on a regular basis, because there's nothing worth having save a few really good repaints, none of which are any of the old 21stC molds. Much whoha about nothin' in 1:18.

I still collect 1:32 though. Let's see if AllGo steps up to the plate and follows though. I think it's a good plan if carried out, as some of their newer molds need to be milked, and will sell IMO. Then maybe they will have enough money for upcoming 1:18 projects. Really though other than a few select molds they may or may not have to get a couple of repaints off like the P-51D, they need to invest in a few new things in 1:18, like a King Tiger, P-51B/C etc.

[the_bird]

from what ive heard from others in the industry allgo cant make good on old debt to the 1/18 factories so i dont think they will evr be able to come back in that area. i heard from a good source that they went with 1/32 since they owed little to that factory. i geuss we will never really know

[snake]

Not disagreeing with anyone but all I know is once 21C went under, so did our hobby. There is no debating that.

Have to agree with that.

If these are not "mass produced", more expensive per copy.

Hence less customers buying. Vicious circle.

1/18 is now a niche market, and doesn't have any real exposure.

I can't see any truly new molds, coming any time soon, if ever.

The customer base is still there, but it is shrinking all the time. IMO.

[vmf214]

I lost interest in collecting 1/18 for myself because of all the messes from pretty much all the big makers, don't even frequent the forum that much anymore. Haven't even pre-ordered any of the "new" repaints. Now if they come out with some new molds I'll jump back in.

I just wish the AT Hartmann Sabre that was listed as "on the water" eons ago would hurry up. That boat obviously needs a new navigator.

Lies, lies, and more lies killed it for me.

[flyboy_fx]

HE'S NO NON BELIEVER! OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

[vmf214]

HE'S NO NON BELIEVER! OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

You can believe the guff if ya all like, I suppose it just continues to ring true what PT Barnum said.

[flyboy_fx]

LOL We must believe because we are told to!!!! *Lightning*



I don't know... My 1/18 hobbies seam to be chugging along same as before!

[Jesse James]

Yes, I think sadly the odds are quite good that Grilledcheese has nailed it. Worse, I suspect it is likely that All Go would rather see *no* product on the market rather than have Chinese factories use those molds. What we have here is a snowball rolling downhill. All Go has a very limited window of opportunity to intimidate retailers into not offering these newer items originating at the Chinese factories who hold the various tooling. All Go needs to show that they control the use of all of the tooling they claim still belongs to them. If they can't control it these days as they did in the past, then why not? Is it because the 21st Century entity owes a Chinese factory a quarter of a million dollars? None of 21st's product was being "pirated" back in the day so what has changed?

All Go needs to get product on the market now, on time, and demonstrate that they plan to have a selection available on an ongoing basis. If this doesn't happen, all retailers will have no choice but to eventually throw in the towel and source product elsewhere.

So let's see...

21st gets in a bind, doesn't pay its bills and the Chinese manufacturers seize their molds and unshipped stock. Sucks, but I can't feel sorry for them.

21st becomes AllGo, promises big things, and produces nothing, for reasons never clearly explained but certainly money related. That sucks more, but I don't feel sorry for them.

AllGo (21st) loses its collective lunch because its former creditors are now producing and selling its old products using the aforementioned seized molds, yet AllGo STILL has not produced anything itself. Sounds like it sucks to be AllGo, and I won't feel sorry for them.
If they have legal beef with their former manufacturers, they might want to take the matter up with their former manufacturers. Threatening anyone else is lame, and doing so ensures that I will never give a flying poop about AllGo/21st Century ever again.

But I'm cranky like that.


Jeffrey

Thirded, I guess... They're really just nuts if they think anyone gives a hoot about that "warning". I'd buy some repainted old 21st molds if given the chance, and a significant change in deco. I don't care if its 21st or AllGo or random Chinese People with a factory and free time. Some stuff I'd definitely like with a new deco is all.

Hell, some stuff probably with the old deco even.

[CW4USARMY]

I'll fourth that!