New subjects vs. Improved remakes.

OnWu · Post by **OnWu** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:10 am

The bbi Corsair is a great example of how the "board" and the "market as a whole" can go in opposite directions. When the bbi Corsair was announced, it didn't generate a lot of excitement here. 21st had the Corsair covered and everyone here had theirs. A few board members purchased the bbi F4U anyway but I suspect the vast majority of the board did not.

However, the bbi plane did not sit around on the shelves long. It sounds like TRUs delivery only lasted a few days. BCT and the rest of the onliners are sold out too. The "market as a whole" has obviously given this model a big thumbs up.

So, as you can see, the hard core collectors do not always run with the mainstream purchaser. In this case, a luke-warm reception by the gurus was countered by big sales overall.

OnWu · Post by **OnWu** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:18 am

Does anybody have any idea on the marketing demographics?

I have no idea, but will add not to sell the suits short. You can bet the manufacturers have all this information at their fingertips and use it on a daily basis. There is a general view that the decision makers don't know what the hell they are doing. However, nothing could be further from the truth. These folks are experienced and intelligent. They know their business much, much better than they are given credit for here.

digger · Post by **digger** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:25 am

Yes, but one thing they teach them in business school is that a vocal minority can be very misleading and their passionate words may not necessarily translate into sales. The groundpounding "aviation gurus" probably represent less than 5% of total sales. The question is: Do these vocal and opinionated afficionadoes speak for the market as a whole and will the majority buy things like the P-39?

Wear the 21st executive's shoes for a while. Would you put your job on the line or your $100K out of your own pocket to build a . . . a . . . Macchi C202? Its easy to tell others what to do if you, yourself do not have anything at stake.

I got to agree with the Wu-man here. Another problem is people say they want something until it comes out, then they want something else. I hope anybody who's asking for the 105 has the 104. And if they made the 105, people would be asking for the 104....

I disagree with the comment that "I'd buy two..."..is a good way to lobby, for the same reasons stated above (vocal minority). Mike already noted that the question is thousands, not hundreds. That said, I even take issue with this forum being used as a Giant wish-list, even if it is being monitored by execs. For example, in the questions for Roy Sutherland thread, people's posts were "I want an F-14 and a....." wtf is that? I like to wish as much as the next guy but we lose something around here when every thread is on what we DON'T have. And what we gain are people not interested in the hobby who come here to throw their coins in the founatin....

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:51 am

Look at it this way, nearly all the aircraft that have been considered at this point to be "high sellers" have been produced. With the exception of the Hellcat in the WWII line, what else is there but more obscure or larger subjects. I know that BBI hasn't done a P-47, P-38, Sptifire, etc.. If they do produce these too, sooner or later the "market as a whole" will have these subjects either by 21st or BBI. Then what? I see this question in the modern line of 1/18, especially the modern aircraft. The F-16 and F-18 are widely recognized by many and they have been done. Everything else seems to be obscure or there is a size issue (which won't get any better in this line of aircraft). I don't see 21st doing an F-16 and an F-18 anytime soon if at all. So where will it go now? That is where the surprise will be.

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:53 am

Mike wrote:

" For donnieboy....on the "New subject vs improved remakes" thread

Hi donnieboy....noted your comments...the bad news is I am not twenty five years old and I don't have a business degree.....but I do have over 30 years of retail experience and over 40 years of studying military aviation.

Can I remind you that bbi was the first to release the Hornet, Falcon, Apache, Blackhawk, Kiowa and a Zero in 1:18 scale... not exactly what I would call the "usual suspects" and I think we sort of "stuck our necks out'" with each and every one of them.

And just for the record.."we don't know everything"....but are looking forward to meeting someone who does. "

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:56 am

I believe you have to have interests in this hobby to want something. Even if it is produced or not produced. What's wrong with wishing or wanting? Did you not read Bad Cats new letter for the Zero? Had it not been for the wishing and wanting of people interested in this hobby, the Zero would not have been done. Point is, this board maybe a small section of the community in this hobby, but it has proven to help give positive results from wanting and wishing. We all at some point have expressed wanting and wishing here.

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:36 am

This board is for collectors, not random shoppers walking up a toy aisle looking for something to keep Junior busy for a few hours. Our interests and desires as to what we want are quite different from the general toy buying public. We make the mistake of assuming what we want will sell in large numbers. Sometimes it does, sometimes not (M-41s still in TRU).

Junior's Mommy wouldn't know a Zero from a P-51 or a Tiger from an M-1 Abrams. A plane is a plane and a tank is a truck is a tank.

Wally tracks EVERY single purchase the micro second it is scanned. Distribution is notified the second that item is paid for. The item can be replaced in a store a day later IF the store wants it. Anybody remember the WNBC show on Wally. Their distribution center looks like the NASA control room.

What I am saying is simple, I know our hobby expands in numbers every day. I was started by a gift to me of a 21c CC. Since then every guy visiting my house as seen this product and likes it, three people I know have bought our toys. If we can get to the point where 21C and BBI can know whatever they put out whether it's a Mosquito, Me-110, King Tiger or 88mm, etc,etc in 1:18, they will have a done deal putting it out besides waiting for Christmas at Wally to put their year in the black.

TTT

donnieboy · Post by **donnieboy** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:11 pm

For Mike Murphy: Thanks for responding civilly to my admittedly strident post! Didn't know you were listening! As On Wu aptly pointed out, it's not me who has to face an enraged toy company CEO and explain how I just cost the company $500, 000 due to an ill-conceived, poor-selling model. But I still think variety will sell. And yes you're right, BBI and 21 C have both come out with some real stunners the past few years. To make up for my harsh words, here's a hot marketing tip from ol' donnieboy. Why not do an I.A.R. 80, the pride of the Romanian Air Force? This radial-engined beauty shot down quite a few B-24s en route to Ploesti. People would line up around the block to purchase this Transylvanian Terror in 1:18. So how about it? If it flops and you end up living in a cardboard box under a freeway overpass, I'll have you over for dinner (just bring your own booze!)

OnWu · Post by **OnWu** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:57 pm

Very funny, Don!

I wish I could get a job good enough to where I could make a bad decision and cost the Man $500K!

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:45 am

LOL!!!!!

That one made me laugh!! You might as well add the Famous CAC Boomerang that haunted many a Japanese pilot over New Guinea!!

By the way, if you want to see a rare sight, check out these 2 Boomerangs in formation!!

http://www.accentwebdesign.com.au/boome ... -BOM11.jpg

Beautiful!

-Ski

Quixote511 · Post by **Quixote511** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:49 am

There is always a Finnish livery of the Brewster Buffalo--now there's a real beaut

Aaron

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:59 am

Quixote511 wrote:There is always a Finnish livery of the Brewster Buffalo--now there's a real beaut
Aaron

The repaint opportunities for the Buffalo would be numerous! US Navy, RAF, Dutch AF and Finland. Perfect!!!!

You know the interesting fact about the Buffalo is that if it fought the Zero in it's original form without the armor plating and self sealing tanks (just like the Zero!), it would of just about fought on equal terms........

-Ski

Post by **aferguson** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:16 pm

Mike wrote:

"for Teamski on the "new subjects versus remakes" thread

Two lovely Boomerangs in formation is your picture...the one on the left belongs to Matthew Denning and the one on the right is from the stable of the late Guido Zuccoli..it is now maintained by his wife Lynette and the pilot ( in this photo) is Wayne Milburn.
They are a great subjects for 1:18 ...we will most likely consider doing at least 15 versions of these before any other WWII or modern aircraft, followed by 2 versions of the 1903 models of Langley's "Great Aerodrome".
Thanks for all the requests guys...it really helps."

Quixote511 · Post by **Quixote511** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:31 pm

So, I was at the Indianapolis Air Show today---good times. While there, I was thinking about how our beloved WWII vintage, US Navy is so underrepresented. We seriously need a Hellcat and Wildcat. They would be too cool. Oh, and by the way, who has been givng those of us who would like a P-39 a bum rap? Well, I oughta give them a knuckle sandwich, Cincinnati style

Seriouly, I think it would be a fun plane to have too.
Aaron

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:40 pm

aferguson wrote:Mike wrote:

"for Teamski on the "new subjects versus remakes" thread

Two lovely Boomerangs in formation is your picture...the one on the left belongs to Matthew Denning and the one on the right is from the stable of the late Guido Zuccoli..it is now maintained by his wife Lynette and the pilot ( in this photo) is Wayne Milburn.
They are a great subjects for 1:18 ...we will most likely consider doing at least 15 versions of these before any other WWII or modern aircraft, followed by 2 versions of the 1903 models of Langley's "Great Aerodrome".
Thanks for all the requests guys...it really helps."

"Ha...Ha...Ha...."

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:56 pm

To kind of get back on topic - not that it matters much

- I agree with the origional post that things are a little conservative regarding the current ratio of new products versus remakes and repaints. I favor an even balance, but do like to see new releases. 21c has, for the most part, been very good about this, giving us a diverse array of aircraft from WWII through the Modern periods, and they've even had planes that have made in older and newer model versions (think the ME-109 and P-47.) Then there's the wide array of armored vehicles (in both 1:18 & 1:32). BBI has covered modern aircraft and vehicles pretty well, but they do not have the overall diversity of 21c simply as they haven't been in the 1:18 business as long. There will be more new stuff in the future - but what we get and how many new relases come out will depend on what the companies see as being sellable and profitable.

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:57 pm

There are alot of sellable projects to look at in 1/18. Even though not everyone of us here on the board clamor for the same aircraft (A-10, F-14, Hellcat, etc.), it's very safe to say that we will all buy one (or more) of what is made. Even though some here talk about size and space, we all eventually find a place to put them.